Why is our management group considered smart?

[DSVII]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

I think, respectfully of course; that it is very VERY valid to criticize ownership.

 

The rumours of their interference and involvement stem all the way back o the final season and a half of Mike Gillis.  The issues/rumours of Linden.  The entirety of the Benning era and now this refusal to change course from a decade of doing the exact same thing.

 

While ownership may not have a direct hand in things; there's far to much smoke for their not to be fire regarding ownership being involved in the direction this team has taken for over 10 years.

 

Don't forget, when the Aquialini's took over.  They took over the team that had everything in place from the twins to bieksa, kesler, burrows, hansen etc.  They had the WCE rolling strong.  They hadn't owned a team that had experienced failure for almost the first 10 years they owned it.  Now almost ten years later they've experienced nothing but.  They are successful from an entirely different type of business and this team was a cash cow for them because it generated money immediately.  Now it doesn't as well; and the product is stale.  SO again, while I agree that looking for a scapegoat is silly; there is far to much out there existing in regards to rumours of involvement/interference or steering for it to be discounted

It goes back to ownership firing Dave Nonis for not trading futures (edler, Kesler, schneider) for Brad Richards.

[Timråfan]

4 hours ago, thrago said:

I don't consider them smart at all really, I think at best they are equal to JB, so far.  They signed BB, JT and IM to $20 million worth of cap thats almost 25% of the cap and they have shipped out 3 draft pick and still haven't addressed our biggest weakness which is defense.  Not to mention instead of taking any blame for there failures they blame it all on the coach, something JB never stooped too.  I'm hoping they get better but so far I think of them as arrogant, ignorant and unprofessional.

 

I agree it was time to move on from JB, but at least he didn't make constant excuses for sucking and try to blame it on someone else.  That is something that really bugs me about these guys and I doubt I will get past it.  I have liked management groups in the past and I've been indifferent to some this is the first that I have outright disliked.

Yeah, why blame an experianced coach when you can blame young inexperianced prospects… The world is strange indeed.

[Timråfan]

4 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Eh? I guess words can mean whatever you want.

 

I'm fine with the Lekkerimaki draft tbh, but do you seriously believe JR signing Miller to a 7 year extension with trade protection was some sort of 4D chess move designed to prove that the team needs wholesale change?

Regarding Miller. He will continue to produce well over 50 points through his contract here.

Mainly because he doesn’t do any defence.

[Warhippy]

24 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

Regarding Miller. He will continue to produce well over 50 points through his contract here.

Mainly because he doesn’t do any defence.

It's not him my dude.  He's worth every dollar of that contract.

 

It's just the rest of the team that's immature ya know

[Timråfan]

4 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

It's not him my dude.  He's worth every dollar of that contract.

 

It's just the rest of the team that's immature ya know

Yes, even I think he’s worth 8 mill and I don’t even want him on the team due to his and Peteys lack of common ground hockey/mentally/personality-wise

[canuck73_3]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

can we please let this stupid "ownership" thing go.  To me, it's just another example of finding an easy scapegoat to blame.

Enough smoke to be fire. It’s worthy of debate. 

[canuck73_3]

3 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Gonna get me riked up 

 

So going back to 2006 (I've been on this all week) the Canucks have consistently taken the "bpa" in the first round and not an organizational needs, outside of arguably OJ.

 

This includes Grabner, White, Hodgson, Schroeder, Jensen, Horvat/Shinkaruk, McCann, Boeser and Lekkerimaki.

 

I can recall every one of those draft threads.  I can recall the BPA comments vs those of organizational need.

 

Outside of Gaunce and Jensen, the resounding theme is the associated bpa being a smaller homerun attempted winger or centre with really oy McCann Boeser Horvat making it.  I can list all the names of players deemed a reach because they were an RHD 1tajen 10 spots later, or a project because they were larger and more raw/less skilled.

 

Had we taken organizational need we'd be doing far better now.  But we really never ever did or do.

BPA in round 1 is the way to go period. Or would you prefer we go for “I think he’ll be the best player in the draft” Mark Jankowski’s in round 1? 
 

BPA Round 1

organizational needs round 2 and beyond 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, canuck73_3 said:

Enough smoke to be fire. It’s worthy of debate. 

Yup.  Our owner’s has set the sacrifice the future in hopes to “win now” direction since he bought the club.  Anyone who challenges that philosophy is replaced with someone who will follow the owner’s marching orders.  He’s not meddling in hockey ops; he’s just demanding the club tries to always improve in the now and not truly rebuild.  So, it’s pretty clear why new management is making “win now” moves and giving up picks and prospects to do so.  

[RU SERIOUS]

7 hours ago, IBatch said:

That's a pretty decent write-up.   Let's hope Allvin is smarter about this.   Some of those moves were simply bad.   Was trading Marino a casualty of this stuff - or was that one of his better signings or both?    

Very good question.   I remember when the Marino change happened, I think it was TSN or Sportsnet questioning whether this was "an above board" happening or if something else was prompting the change.   I still wonder to this day what really happened but of course we'll never likely find out.    As for that report, I sure hope we don't see a repeat performance here and still have fingers crossed he'll actually be able to "right" the Canucks Ship.

[Bure2Win]

16 hours ago, hammertime said:

This fits this organization sooooo well.

[RU SERIOUS]

7 hours ago, Boudrias said:

My frustration with the org over the years has been team identity. I realize that is a very easy thing to say. To an extent you have to craft your play around the dominant players on your roster. That said, the Canucks have over the years deferred their 'identity' to easily to those players they think can lead them, not to a CUP, but to playoffs. IMHO there is a difference. Serious CUP play versus an appearance with no real likelihood of actually winning the CUP. 

 

I talk about team identity and can not say what Vancouver's is? I see a lot of pieces that appear desperate for what the Canucks play on the ice should be. As a fan the player I think demonstrates the identity to coalesce is EP40. A solid 200' game that combines a good backcheck and an ability to break up ice with speed and skill. As he matures EP40 is bringing more physicality into his game and is seldom caught on the wrong side of the puck. 

 

Saying all this is not unique to the NHL as most teams would want the same thing. It is about execution which on many nights is not there. When the acknowledged weak point of your team is in the d-zone then clearing that zone is the imperative and making higher risk plays in hopes of generating offense out of the d-zone not as important. This is why it is imperative that management acquire a defensive defenseman to anchor their d-zone around. Hughes is not that player. Hughes is a player with the skill set that could win a CUP for Vancouver. He is not a bedrock in a defensive game where many playoff games are won. The sad reality faced by management is that Meyers, OEL , Burroughs, Schenn are not those players. Hughes and maybe Bear are.   

Well Stated!     ........and yes, EP40's game is changing for the better and as far as I'm concerned he and Horvat are the only two forwards that play a two way game on this team and give it their "all".   But, as far as the identity crisis goes, that comes back to leadership and despite Bo being a great player, I strongly suspect that he will be traded not just to clear cap room but to change the face and leadership of the franchise.    It will certainly be a loss but it might be what is needed to finally try and shed our infamous "Country-Club" image that has saddled this team for the past decade.  It's one of the few things that have not changed around here in years.

 

On Fridays Donnie & Dhali show one of their guest stated such a trade for a top center would usually bring back 3 assets.  A 1ST ROUNDER + TWO OTHER ASSETS. It will interesting as we round the corner in the next few weeks now that our top Goalie is gone for a couple of months and we approach Trade Deadline.     Interestng times ahead!

Edited December 3, 2022 by RU SERIOUS
Typo

[RU SERIOUS]

3 hours ago, stawns said:

can we please let this stupid "ownership" thing go.  To me, it's just another example of finding an easy scapegoat to blame.

 

28 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Enough smoke to be fire. It’s worthy of debate. 

I'll Second That !

[IBatch]

11 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Well Stated!     ........and yes, EP40's game is changing for the better and as far as I'm concerned he and Horvat are the only two forwards that play a two way game on this team and give it their "all".   But, as far as the identity crisis goes, that comes back to leadership and despite Bo being a great player, I strongly suspect that he will be traded not just to clear cap room but to change the face and leadership of the franchise.    It will certainly be a loss but it might be what is needed to finally try and shed our infamous "Country-Club" image that has saddled this team for the past decade.  It's one of the few things that have not changed around here in years.

 

On Fridays Donnie & Dhali show one of their guest stated such a trade for a top center would usually bring back 3 assets.  A 1ST ROUNDER + TWO OTHER ASSETS. It will interesting as we round the corner in the next few weeks now that our top Goalie is gone for a couple of months and we approach Trade Deadline.     Interestng times ahead!

I actually agree with this.   It's time to get rid of the rest of that era in its entirety. 

[Phil_314]

They ran the perfect cap to start the season, JR has a good GM record and PA is his protege so it comes with the reputation, and they've lucked out on some draft picks (e.g., Hughes/ Petey/ Boeser/ Demko) and trades (Miller, Garland).  Besides that I don't got much.

[Alflives]

14 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Well Stated!     ........and yes, EP40's game is changing for the better and as far as I'm concerned he and Horvat are the only two forwards that play a two way game on this team and give it their "all".   But, as far as the identity crisis goes, that comes back to leadership and despite Bo being a great player, I strongly suspect that he will be traded not just to clear cap room but to change the face and leadership of the franchise.    It will certainly be a loss but it might be what is needed to finally try and shed our infamous "Country-Club" image that has saddled this team for the past decade.  It's one of the few things that have not changed around here in years.

 

On Fridays Donnie & Dhali show one of their guest stated such a trade for a top center would usually bring back 3 assets.  A 1ST ROUNDER + TWO OTHER ASSETS. It will interesting as we round the corner in the next few weeks now that our top Goalie is gone for a couple of months and we approach Trade Deadline.     Interestng times ahead!

I’d love to see a return for Bo that is futures and creates cap space.  We had that kind of offer for Miller (rumoured from the Rags) at the 2022 TDL, but our owner wouldn’t go for a rebuilding move like that.  So, why should we expect this TDL to be any different with Bo?  I’d sure be happy to be wrong.  But will our owner accept a step back (futures as the key parts) with a Bo trade?  

[Gurn]

I wonder how much time Steamer spends, just staring into the abyss.

Poor guy, gets the GM title, then makes the mistake of talking, about culture, effort, and caring.

So they replace him.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Gurn said:

I wonder how much time Steamer spends, just staring into the abyss.

Poor guy, gets the GM title, then makes the mistake of talking, about culture, effort, and caring.

So they replace him.

I wonder if Steamer knew, when Aquilini paraded him out in public November 2021 as the face of the new management, that his owner was negotiating to bring in JR?  

[awalk]

16 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

Aquilini wants to win with this roster, keeping this roster together fits what he wants. Ergo keeping it together is working with him to show him you’re willing to play ball. 
 

When it blows up in his face you show him his plan isn’t working and now it is his turn to play ball. This isn’t rocket science to follow. 

It's a plausible theory. 

 

I've maintained that their focus has always been this upcoming draft and free agency. If they screw up the deadline and off season this year, I just don't know what to say. 

[Harold Drunken]

17 hours ago, dougieL said:

I've heard people in the media describe this management group as "smart" or "vaunted". These are words that were never close to being used to describe the previous regime.

 

The only person in this current front office with any kind of record of success as a primary builder of a team is Rutherford. Is that enough for the front office to be billed as "smart" and "vaunted"?

[Harold Drunken]

17 hours ago, dougieL said:

Sure, but they had this reputation right off the bat before they even made any moves. 

Well when you've won 3 stanley cups and you're in the hall of fame.....

Edited December 3, 2022 by Harold Drunken