Ignoring Biological Reality Puts Female Hockey Players at Risk

[KristoffWixenschon]

51 minutes ago, stawns said:

which will, really, have no impact on the rest of their lives

It could impact scholarships at the college level and prize money at the professional level.

It could also mean the difference to making an Olympic team or being cut.

Those are pretty real consequences. 

[stawns]

19 minutes ago, KristoffWixenschon said:

It could impact scholarships at the college level and prize money at the professional level.

It could also mean the difference to making an Olympic team or being cut.

Those are pretty real consequences. 

Doubtful

[BlakeQuinnAndEggs]

53 minutes ago, stawns said:

I think you think there's a lot more transgendered athletes out there than there really is.

One is too many lol

 

This argument is disgusting honestly.

 

Why would a dude want to become a woman and then play Contact sports.  What an abusive narcissist. Special place in hell for people like that...

[KristoffWixenschon]

1 minute ago, BlakeQuinnAndEggs said:

One is too many lol

 

This argument is disgusting honestly.

 

Why would a dude want to become a woman and then play Contact sports.  What an abusive narcissist. Special place in hell for people like that...

I disagree.

Transgender people are just people. People like to play sports. They need a space to play and compete in their favourite thing.

 

But it is true that a trans woman has unfair biological competitive advantages over someone who was born female. 

It doesnt make sense to have trans women in female sport. That's unfair. 

But we absolutely need to promote and support trans women and men in athletics.

 

I would love to see financial support for transgender leagues for team or contact sports.

And for individual non-contact sports, keep competing against whoever you want. But just make sure the scholarships, world records and prize money isnt being taken away from biological females. In fact, fund separate scholarships or professional prize money for transgender athletes. 

[ilduce39]

I think for most trans athletes it isn’t a big issue.  
 

But if you were an “elite” athlete, such as the former div 1 hockey player from the article, it can get silly. 
 

As a male who always “played up” with the older guys I relished the opportunity to compete against bigger and stronger… but I’m not sure that should be forced on the girls. 
 

On the other hand, the m to f trans students I know wouldn’t be the strongest players on their teams.

 

It’s a tough issue.

[elvis15]

Really? I mean, does anyone remember Tryamkin hitting, well, anyone? What do smaller players have to contend with everyday in the NHL? What if this was a draft process between a single gender of people and most the biggest, fastest, most skilled players ended up on one team?

 

All this says is the random drafting process sucked, not that trans women are an issue. The article even says the teams discussed what to do when they say the imbalance. To say otherwise is transphobia/hate.

 

EDIT: and I see a number of comments that fall in the category outlined by my last sentence. People here thinking a man would go though years of hormone blockers to compete as a woman in some sort of gotcha moment clearly do not understand the issue.

Edited December 12, 2022 by elvis15

[UnkNuk]

It's all well and good for all of us here at CDC to opine on this question.  But what do biological females think about this issue - specifically biological female athletes?  There are organizations that represent women athletes - amateur and professional.  Have they taken a position?  Seems to me those opinions are the most important.

[StanleyCupOneDay]

Do small sized men not exist to some people for some reason? How many smaller hockey guys have gotten crushed and been injured by a bigger player? There’s big men, big women, small men and small women in the world is there not? This is just another attack on and has nothing to do with the transgender community veiled in a sense of concern for their well-being who are trying to play a sport that Canadians revere in order for them to have a sense of belonging given all the hate they face from transphobes and bigots just for being who they are.
 

Or maybe I guess people think small men should be banned from playing sports or should play in separate leagues if they’re concerned about an injury to someone? At least that would make their opinion consistent. Injury is a potential danger that comes with playing sports, heck there’ve been bigger players who get injured by smaller players too. It all depends on certain angles or situations, if you get the right ingredients any single person regardless of how strong or muscular they are can get injured. Even though smaller players are definitely more at risk the danger is there for every person.

 

For those who are genuine and wanting to support trans leagues/orgs there’s something you don’t realize. Even by having separate organizations you’re making transgender people continue to feel isolated and like they don’t belong because then there would be men, women and transgender leagues as if transgendered people aren’t men or women, they’re categorized as something else. The intention is good, but in practice it just perpetuates their feeling of not belonging that’s pervasive among the community which helps lead to their extremely high suicide rate.

This story in particular is about size plain and simple. One person that’s bigger hitting one person that’s smaller resulting in an injury. It happens everywhere in men’s and women’s sports leagues all around the world. It’s a potential hazard that comes with the territory of playing. I’d highly recommend before opining to actually talk to or ask someone who is transgendered their thoughts on an issue like this, because I have quite a few m to f and f to m friends who have told me how they feel that’s led me to form my own opinions and it’s their feelings that matter most on the issues that effect them.

 

Regardless I do hope they make a full recovery soon and get back to playing the game they love just as they are.

[Master Mind]

12 hours ago, elvis15 said:

All this says is the random drafting process sucked, not that trans women are an issue. The article even says the teams discussed what to do when they say the imbalance. To say otherwise is transphobia/hate.

That's a lazy and inaccurate generalization.

[StanleyCupOneDay]

On 12/10/2022 at 7:30 PM, BlakeQuinnAndEggs said:

One is too many lol

 

This argument is disgusting honestly.

 

Why would a dude want to become a woman and then play Contact sports.  What an abusive narcissist. Special place in hell for people like that...

Actually the special place in hell is for people like you who refuse to be brought into the modern world. I hope you aren’t this callous and bigoted if a family member of yours transitions. At one point slavery was the societal norm in our country too. Guess we should go back to Muskets, Steam Power and only men who own property being able to vote so that nothing ever gets changed right? Back to when it was the good ol days. Luckily for civilization your type is becoming extinct with each generation that passes and the vast majority of the country will be trying to look forward instead of constantly wanting to go back.

[the harry]

This is a huge minefield. We men would be better off leaving this discussion to the women.

Edited December 12, 2022 by the harry
lost in translation

[ShawnAntoski]

In 2022: sport is becoming very politicized and this trend/experiment will be forced to happen - until something bad happens and/or until the sport or institution, is ruined.  

 

Edited 

Edited December 12, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

In 2022: sport is becoming very politicized and this trend/experiment will be forced to happen - until something bad happens or until the sport is ruined.  

Didn't this incident happen at the rec level though?  Mixed sports (men and women) should be totally fine at the rec level, providing it's a non-contact game.  But at the highest levels, that's different.  

Was dr. Renee Richards the first to be a guy (then a girl) to compete at the highest level in a sport - Tennis in this case?

Imagine if Bruce Jenner switched to a girl back in 76.  He/she could have won the Men's decathlon and the Women's pentathlon.  

[ShawnAntoski]

On 12/12/2022 at 12:05 PM, Alflives said:

Didn't this incident happen at the rec level though?  Mixed sports (men and women) should be totally fine at the rec level, providing it's a non-contact game.  But at the highest levels, that's different.  

Was dr. Renee Richards the first to be a guy (then a girl) to compete at the highest level in a sport - Tennis in this case?

Imagine if Bruce Jenner switched to a girl back in 76.  He/she could have won the Men's decathlon and the Women's pentathlon.  

It is hard to ignore, it anymore cause everything is so political, now a days and the goal post to what is normal, is constantly being moved.  I just remembered what my old neighbor (RIP) told me when, we were having a discussion about current events:

 

"... the road to hell, is full of good intentions"

 

Didn't really understand what it meant back then - but it REALLY makes a lot of sense now....

Edited December 18, 2022 by ShawnAntoski

[lmm]

On 12/10/2022 at 5:43 PM, Alflives said:

Well, of course.  That’s just common sense that a man will have a physical advantage over a woman.  That’s why we have men’s and women’s sports.  But at the rec level, when it’s just for fun and there’s not supposed to be contact, then men and women can play together for sure.  Mixed activities are good.  It looks like the game this guy and girl had their contact in was a fun one.  Had nothing to do with his being a man and her a woman.  Could hav3 happened in mixed softball or any game where guys and girls play together.  It was an accident.  The girl didn’t in any way mean to run over the guy.  

fixed it for you

[lmm]

2 hours ago, the harry said:

This is a huge minefield. We men would be better off leaving this discussion to the women.

are you sure you are a man?

how can we be sure?

were you born a man?

or is that a newish thing?

[the harry]

57 minutes ago, lmm said:

are you sure you are a man?

how can we be sure?

were you born a man?

or is that a newish thing?

Hi caveman, what's up?

Edited December 12, 2022 by the harry

[D.B Cooper]

I think anyone should be able to play in any league. 
 

Once a man starts beating every single female sports record, the feminists will lose their shit and fight against it.  
 

Also, a biological women is going to get killed, be it on the ice, field, or in the ring.   
 

The hard lefts will cry about feelings until they get their mixed/trans/feeling leagues, then either one or both of these things are going to happen and it will all go back to normal

[KristoffWixenschon]

11 hours ago, StanleyCupOneDay said:

Do small sized men not exist to some people for some reason? How many smaller hockey guys have gotten crushed and been injured by a bigger player? There’s big men, big women, small men and small women in the world is there not? This is just another attack on and has nothing to do with the transgender community veiled in a sense of concern for their well-being who are trying to play a sport that Canadians revere in order for them to have a sense of belonging given all the hate they face from transphobes and bigots just for being who they are.
 

Or maybe I guess people think small men should be banned from playing sports or should play in separate leagues if they’re concerned about an injury to someone? At least that would make their opinion consistent. Injury is a potential danger that comes with playing sports, heck there’ve been bigger players who get injured by smaller players too. It all depends on certain angles or situations, if you get the right ingredients any single person regardless of how strong or muscular they are can get injured. Even though smaller players are definitely more at risk the danger is there for every person.

 

For those who are genuine and wanting to support trans leagues/orgs there’s something you don’t realize. Even by having separate organizations you’re making transgender people continue to feel isolated and like they don’t belong because then there would be men, women and transgender leagues as if transgendered people aren’t men or women, they’re categorized as something else. The intention is good, but in practice it just perpetuates their feeling of not belonging that’s pervasive among the community which helps lead to their extremely high suicide rate.

This story in particular is about size plain and simple. One person that’s bigger hitting one person that’s smaller resulting in an injury. It happens everywhere in men’s and women’s sports leagues all around the world. It’s a potential hazard that comes with the territory of playing. I’d highly recommend before opining to actually talk to or ask someone who is transgendered their thoughts on an issue like this, because I have quite a few m to f and f to m friends who have told me how they feel that’s led me to form my own opinions and it’s their feelings that matter most on the issues that effect them.

 

Regardless I do hope they make a full recovery soon and get back to playing the game they love just as they are.

There are size categories in combat sports. In team sports, smaller men compensate with speed and agility.

 

The average person who went through puberty as a male will be stronger and faster than the average person who went through puberty as a female. Of course there is variability. There are many women on the planet who could beat the hell out of many men in their chosen sport. 

But when you look at elite women vs elite men, men easily dominate in any sport involving speed and strength, except maybe ultra marathoners. 

 

It's a really complicated issue. 

It can become an issue of perceived fairness and equality. 

I dont know how to come to a correct answer that works for everyone here. 

On the one hand, you are correct. By not allowing transgender women to compete with biological women, we do some harm by not affirming that person's stated gender.

On the other hand, transgender women have an undeniable likelihood to be naturally stronger and faster than biological women. I can understand how biological women that are hoping for college scholarships or Olympic sponsorships would be upset by transgender inclusion. So we also do some harm to biological women here.

 

Both sides seem correct here. It's interesting to see where people's individual sense of morality and fairness falls in this discussion. Either way you lean, somebody is feeling like they are being cheated out of the thing they care about most in the world. 

[Guest]

14 hours ago, UnkNuk said:

It's all well and good for all of us here at CDC to opine on this question.  But what do biological females think about this issue - specifically biological female athletes?  There are organizations that represent women athletes - amateur and professional.  Have they taken a position?  Seems to me those opinions are the most important.

Exactly