If Bo goes then get rid of Rutherford!

[Fanuck]

1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Even if we had a new owner. And let the GM's do what they want. I don't think there is an easy way out of the mess that Benning has made. Other NHL teams are against the cap too. And they probably don't want to be generous in helping the Canucks out. Now if we can get a series of hockey trades, maybe that and building a proper prospect pool we can get back on track.

I think there's actually quite an easy way out of this situation - but a lot of people, including ownership, wouldn't like it. 

 

1.  Trade the guys who have 'real' value and don't need to have cap-dumps coming back.   BoHo, Miller, Garland, Demko, ect....

2.  Simply wait out the bad contracts until they're done and/or until they become financially less restrictive buy-outs.

3.  Build upon the remaining core and the assets received in #1 and supplement that with subsequent drafts.

 

Will take time, but so will the cycle of mediocrity we've been in for over a decade now that, if allowed to continue, will literally never end....

[Bure_Pavel]

This management team Rutherford has assembled is failing big time. Seems like he went for diversity hires instead of experienced NHL minds (first european GM, first female assistant GM). While they are good business professionals they dont seem to know what it takes to win at the NHL level or how to operate in this environment. They set clear goals of improving the defense and clearing cap. They failed at both, now are looking to trade Boeser for scraps and trade our 27 year old elite 2 way center, because he likely has lost faith in the organization/tried to screw him around. We are currently the laughing stock of the league. 

 

Our core two years ago. 

 

Hughes, Petey, Horvat, Boeser, and Demko.

 

Our Core now:

 

Hughes, Petey, and maybe Demko 

 

To watch everything we built in the last 8 years fall apart in the last 1.5 years is tough. 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Bure_Pavel

[EdgarM]

16 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

I think there's actually quite an easy way out of this situation - but a lot of people, including ownership, wouldn't like it. 

 

1.  Trade the guys who have 'real' value and don't need to have cap-dumps coming back.   BoHo, Miller, Garland, Demko, ect....

2.  Simply wait out the bad contracts until they're done and/or until they become financially less restrictive buy-outs.

3.  Build upon the remaining core and the assets received in #1 and supplement that with subsequent drafts.

 

Will take time, but so will the cycle of mediocrity we've been in for over a decade now that, if allowed to continue, will literally never end....

I think we found a replacement for Rutherford. 

[IBatch]

27 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

This management team Rutherford has assembled is failing big time. Seems like he went for diversity hires instead of experienced NHL minds (first european GM, first female assistant GM). While they are good business professionals they dont seem to know what it takes to win at the NHL level or how to operate in this environment. They set clear goals of improving the defense and clearing cap. They failed at both, now are looking to trade Boeser for scraps and trade our 27 year old elite 2 way center, because he likely has lost faith in the organization/tried to screw him around. We are currently the laughing stock of the league. 

 

Our core two years ago. 

 

Hughes, Petey, Horvat, Boeser, and Demko.

 

Our Core now:

 

Hughes, Petey, and maybe Demko 

 

To watch everything we built in the last 8 years fall apart in the last 1.5 years is tough. 

Sure is.  And i'd add Miller to that.   We did pay for it, and he was pretty good for us until this season (and he's not the problem either) .     It truly is a sad state of affairs.   That said not all hope is lost (yet).   A long season.   And if they can pull off the right lateral move(s), maybe things sort themselves out.     

 

One lucky 8th overall finish, and another player exit ... then one last hurrah during the bubble...which truly was exciting until we played Vegas anyways ... and even then Demko made it interesting.     Vanilla league...parity.   8-22 there really is a lot of teams that can jump around a lot.   Maybe we are one of them maybe we aren't, but it's a little depressing to see the 3 young players excel, and a goalie keep up the Luongo vibes for awhile at least.    Remember the old days when we got scored on a lot.   And when we scored a lot.   Was stoked coming into this season with a lot of weapons.   Too bad the two rarely seem to align. 

Edited December 14, 2022 by IBatch

[JayDangles]

17 hours ago, Steve The Poolman said:

To put it in perspective I think Bo is worth more than Miller don't you? Rutherford decisions hmmm?!

Well thats kind of using todays information and applying it in hindsight. 

 

In the summer, Miller was the higher producing player (99pts) and had shown more leadership. BO had only produced 52 points and there were rumours about him losing the room.

I'm not saying management made the right call, but given the info at the time Bo was not worth more than Miller. 

 

Sorry but I don't buy the position that you knew Bo was worth more than Miller back in July.

[smithers joe]

i keep going back to JR's comment at the beginning," the team is constructed wrong".

i think miller needs a playmaking center to bring out his best.

what kind of forward can bring out the best in garland?

kuz and mik seem to have a place here going forward.

boeser doesn't seem to fit on any line.

schenn is perfect with hughes but who after him?

defense seems better with bear and dermott.

myers and oel are anchors to getting better there.

what should each line and pairing does this team need to be highly competitive?

[Baggins]

16 hours ago, Provost said:

If the admins see who was recently suspended or banned… I think they have their guy

 

Not many posters were here before I was… but he has me by five months.  I have also posted more than 7 times I think.

How does my July 30, 2003 join date stack up? 

[RU SERIOUS]

Obstacle # 1 preventing a necessary Rebuild - THAT NEEDS TO GO !

 

 

[Saved_by_Jesus]

Don't worry Bo lovers - I can see the future.

 

Bo's camp rejects 7x7, counters with an offer of 8x8

 

The Canucks reject it, call around the league to test the trade market and realize they aren't going to get great value in a trade.

 

Once the maximum pressure is on both sides, just before the trade deadline, they agree on 7.4 x 8.

 

I'll come back in a couple months and say I told you so.

 

 

[King Heffy]

2 hours ago, Fanuck said:

I think there's actually quite an easy way out of this situation - but a lot of people, including ownership, wouldn't like it. 

 

1.  Trade the guys who have 'real' value and don't need to have cap-dumps coming back.   BoHo, Miller, Garland, Demko, ect....

2.  Simply wait out the bad contracts until they're done and/or until they become financially less restrictive buy-outs.

3.  Build upon the remaining core and the assets received in #1 and supplement that with subsequent drafts.

 

Will take time, but so will the cycle of mediocrity we've been in for over a decade now that, if allowed to continue, will literally never end....

This is my preference.  We'll likely need to trade Petey as well, but I'm ok with that if he's not going to stay for a rebuild.

[Provost]

33 minutes ago, Baggins said:

How does my July 30, 2003 join date stack up? 

[Fred65]

Here's what I don't understand. The direction of the club, If they re sign Miller but can't resign Horvat. One objective is the polar opposite of the the other. It points to confusion IMHO.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Fred65

[Bobby James]

The only situation where I am fine with trading Horvat is if we also trade Miller. 

 

If not then move Miller for anything you can get and resign Bo to around 7.5 x 8. With the extra cap saved we can again look to fix the D. 

[Zerofaith]

Can we bring JB back

[D-Money]

 

I don’t understand the attachment people have to some players. What exactly has our team accomplished with Horvat? We had one little run in the bubble, in a year where we were trending to miss the playoffs, but snuck in on a once-in-a-lifetime playoff format. And even then, once we faced a good team, it took a career performance by Demko not to get absolutely steamrolled.

 

And that is when we had Pettersson and Hughes on ELCs, and some promising prospects in the system. Since then? Jack squat. This despite usually excellent goaltending, franchise record-setting offensive contributions from Hughes, and last year a 99-pt career performance from Miller. Still, nowhere close to good enough.

 

But honestly, look where we are now. Are we a playoff team? Nope. Are we a contender? Not even close. Do we have some bluechip prospects coming, that will push us to new heights? No, our pipeline is one of the worst in the league. Now project where Horvat is going to go on his next contract. Does anyone think he’s suddenly going to be a perennial 40+ goal-scorer well into his 30’s? Seriously? This is his career season, and we’re still not good enough.

 

The last thing this team should do is break the bank to sign Horvat. It would be insanity. We need to rebuild, get younger, and stock the system. Horvat’s breakout could be a gift that benefits our franchise for years…if we trade him. If we re-sign him at his increased salary demands because of this anomaly of a season, then it quickly turns into another Miller contract - turning an asset into an anchor.

Edited December 14, 2022 by D-Money

[Fred65]

14 minutes ago, D-Money said:

 

I don’t understand the attachment people have to some players. What exactly has our team accomplished with Horvat? We had one little run in the bubble, in a year where we were tending to miss the playoffs. And even then, once we faced a good team, it took a career performance by Demko not to get absolutely steamrolled.

 

And that is when we had Pettersson and Hughes on ELCs, and some promising prospects in the system. Since then? Jack squat. This despite usually excellent goaltending, franchise record-setting offensive contributions from Hughes, and last year a 99-pt career performance from Miller. Still, nowhere close to good enough.

 

But honestly, look where we are now. Are we a playoff team? Nope. Are we a contender? Not even close. Do we have some bluechip prospects coming, that will push us to new heights? No, our pipeline is one of the worst in the league. Now project where Horvat is going to go on his next contract. Does anyone think he’s suddenly going to be a perennial 40+ goal-scorer well into his 30’s? Seriously? This is his career season, and we’re still not good enough.

 

The last thing this team should do is break the bank to sign Horvat. It would be insanity.

My my! to throw the responsibility for the teams failing alone on Horvat  is nonesensicle. The reason the team has been a constant failure since 2012 starts with ownership pursuing and impossible dream. The add to that a rookie GM, a rookie coach and no capologist ( also aIso  a very poor pro scouting team ) It takes a team effort to be as bad as this franchise has been. Horvat is no McJesus for sure but hMcJ hasn't  tuurned around Edmonton either (as well as Draisidal ) No, the 10 year failure is ownership pursuing the imossibel dream. It doesn't matter who you bring in there will be little success. The team actually has some quality skill, it doesn't matter if the ownership keeps looking for a short term fix. Remember what Torts said when he left "this team is stale" Gillis wanted to rebuild and was fired as a result !!( he garnered more success than ANY other GM in the history of the franchise !!

 

Horvat for the most part has done his job pretty well

Edited December 14, 2022 by Fred65

[Zerofaith]

38 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Obstacle # 1 preventing a necessary Rebuild - THAT NEEDS TO GO !

 

 

 

[D-Money]

4 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

My my! to throw the responsibility for the teams failing alone on Horvat  is nonesensicle. The reason the team has been a constant failure since 2012 starts with ownership pursuing and impossible dream. The add to that a rookie GM, a rookie coach and no capologist ( also aIso  a very poor pro scouting team ) It takes a team effort to be as bad as this franchise has been. Horvat is no McJesus for sure but hMcJ hasn't  tuurned around Edmonton either (as well as Draisidal ) No, the 10 year failure is ownership pursuing the imossibel dream. It doesn't matter who you bring in there will be little success. The team actually has some quality skill, it doesn't matter if the ownership keeps looking for a short term fix. Remember what Torts said when he left "this team is stale" Gillis wanted to rebuild and was fired as a result !!( he garnered more success than ANY other GM in the history of the franchise !!

 

Horvat for the most part has done his job pretty well

I’m not blaming Horvat at all. Please read what I wrote before counseling me about something else.

 

Here’s the Coles notes: the team is not good enough, even with Horvat at his absolute peak. No prospects in system, Horvat almost 30, so team and player will likely get worse. So why sign Horvat at a premium, just to repeat more failure?

[Fred65]

1 minute ago, D-Money said:

I’m not blaming Horvat at all. Please read what I wrote before counseling me about something else.

 

Here’s the Coles notes: the team is not good enough, even with Horvat at his absolute peak. No prospects in system, Horvat almost 30, so team and player will likely get worse. So why sign Horvat at a premium, just to repeat more failure?

To rid the team of Horvat or any other is not about the player (s) but about the direction set by ownership. Their direction is none existant and often takes polar opposite direction ie sign Miller and get rid of Horvat. The team lives in a contrarian world.

[smithers joe]

26 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Here's what I don't understand. The direction of the club, If they re sign Miller but can't resign Horvat. One objective is the polar opposite of the the other. It points to confusion IMHO.

they need to bring in more prospects. they couldn't get the return they wanted for miller so signed him so they wouldn't lose him for nothing.  if they could move out other big contracts and keep bo they would, but bo would return the best group to start a rebuild or retool.  it's the old adage, those who can, do and those who can't criticize those who can.

we know they have tried to move miller, boeser, garland, myers and even oel. bo is not signed and is someone other team covet. if you can re-sign him what would you do?