‘A new page for everyone’: Beauvillier, Raty ready to embrace fresh start with Canucks

[jyu]

3 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Benning did better with a Kesler that had a full NTC only one destination and a single year left on his contract with injury issues than Jimpat Ruthervin did with Horvat with zero of those issues and they retained 25% of his total contract meaning he is only on the Islanders books for $1.1 million.

 

So.....potato potatoe

Kesler for Bonino, Sbisa, and 24th overall pick.

 

Horvat with 25% retention for Beauvillier, Raty, and 1st rounder likely around 15th overall.

 

- Kesler is a 5-time Selke finalist and 1-time winner and just generally much better player than Horvat in almost all facets of the game except faceoffs, where Kesler and Bo are about on par.

- Horvat is a pending UFA while Kesler was under contract.

 

Fact 1: Benning did well given that Kesler wanted out and that he had a full NTC.

Fact 2: Return for Kesler was not better than the return for Horvat.

 

If a 5-time Selke nominee gets you a 3C, 6th dman, and a 24th overall pick, I'd call that downright underwhelming. The only reason why Benning gets a pass from me on that trade is because of Kesler's NTC.

 

[MaxVerstappen33]

Raty looks like Dale Weiss and Bo Horvats half brother. 

[Wise Guy]

Perfect, we need a player that was at the boxing ring, we get one that was at the spa, we tuff.

[Elias Pettersson]

4 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Benning did better with a Kesler that had a full NTC only one destination and a single year left on his contract with injury issues than Jimpat Ruthervin did with Horvat with zero of those issues and they retained 25% of his total contract meaning he is only on the Islanders books for $1.1 million.

 

So.....potato potatoe

Are we comparing the same Kesler who won the Selke trophy and was arguably our MVP during our Stanley Cup run to game 7 of the finals?  The same Kesler who was in the top 3 in Selke voting for 5 years?  The same Kelser who was 8th in the Hart voting?  You're comparing that Kesler to Bo Horvat?

 

Kesler wasn't even going to UFA when he was traded, we literally got a better return for a rental...

[BlakeQuinnAndEggs]

5 hours ago, Warhippy said:

I just...don't care.

 

He either works out or doesn't but all signs point to him being the 2b centre IF he reaches his potential that we needed while we had a 1-2 of Pettersson and Horvat.  Won't know for years about him or the pick.

 

Beauvelier is the real question mark.  He is a UFA to end next year and his production shows how well he handles more defensively minded hard nosed coaches so we will see what effect Tocchet has on him and if he even wants to stay.

 

Still so very meh about all of this that it is hard to even be excited or disappointed

You're on glue.

 

Kesler was miles better than Horvat. You can't even compare them.

 

This Era of Canucks is just not good. There is good players but as a team they don't work.

 

They gut the front office, they changed the coach, now they traded the captain. This is a top down tear down and it had to be done.

 

We finally have a GM who has the balls to make the difficult decisions and people are complaining.

[J-23]

4 hours ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

They looked a bit disengaged during the interview, and Raty with his ever-moving cam was pretty f**king annoying.  Having said that, I hope they are just uncomfortable doing that virtual meeting thing with their cameras on (I know I am when I'm on cam) and are actually happy to come to the wet coast.

Bo interview was similar, a little awkward. Guys just got traded so they’re probably a little shook from it still.

[DownUndaCanuck]

Allvin has taken on so many projects during his tenure. Bear, Studnicka, Stillman to name a few. Bear has been the only one who's playing up to his potential. This notion of buying low but players who aren't really cracking their own lineup, hoping they'll grow into better players with us is a bit silly. You've got to give quality to get quality, but this might be the start of say a 3-5 year plan.

 

Don't sugar coat it - Beauvillier is not a prime piece of this trade, he's really just a cap dump, NYI didn't really have anyone else they could afford to throw us in the 4-5M cap range to accommodate for Bo's cap hit. As far as I'm concerned he's a cap dump. Sure, he's a former 1st rounder but he's playing like a 2-3rd rounder. 35ish point player, bottom-6 winger, he's basically a younger less defensively aware Pearson or less offensive Garland for a cap price of in between. Not great, not terrible. He's absolutely a project though - I think if he hits 40+ points and plays well defensively he'll replace Pearson and may get an extended contract. If he plays the same as he has his entire career, he doesn't deserve another contract, or if he does, a price drop to around 2.5-3M. We just can't afford our 3rd line wingers to be getting 4-5M.

 

Raty is a funny one, he's a bit of a project but still oozes potential and is very young. Not many project prospects out there who are 20 years old. He had a great year after his draft, PPG in Finland, then has come over to the AHL and scored at a 0.5PPG which is decent. I just hope we don't mess up this trend of development. It only seems like he's a project after he was expected to go top-3 in the draft and slipped, so I guess he's been a bit of a project ever since he was drafted. The Canucks aren't the best at player development in all fairness but we'll see what happens. 

Organizationally, we're about to have one of the best draft picks in the last 10-20 years with possibly a top-10 if not top-5 pick in one of the deepest ever drafts full of centers. I doubt we get Bedard (but if we do this conversation is over), but if we get a top-3 pick we have a future elite center who may be better than Petey (Fantilli, Carlsson or obviously Bedard). If we get a top-5/6 pick, we get a very decent top-2 center in Yager, Dvorsky or Smith who can play pretty well as a 2C under Petey. Where Raty and even Klimovich slide in then depends on how good our next pick is. Raty may be a great two-way center at 2C, but if he doesn't produce as much offence as say Will Smith, he'll be a fantastic 3C.

[Bad_BOI_pete]

1 hour ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Allvin has taken on so many projects during his tenure. Bear, Studnicka, Stillman to name a few. Bear has been the only one who's playing up to his potential. This notion of buying low but players who aren't really cracking their own lineup, hoping they'll grow into better players with us is a bit silly. You've got to give quality to get quality, but this might be the start of say a 3-5 year plan.

 

Don't sugar coat it - Beauvillier is not a prime piece of this trade, he's really just a cap dump, NYI didn't really have anyone else they could afford to throw us in the 4-5M cap range to accommodate for Bo's cap hit. As far as I'm concerned he's a cap dump. Sure, he's a former 1st rounder but he's playing like a 2-3rd rounder. 35ish point player, bottom-6 winger, he's basically a younger less defensively aware Pearson or less offensive Garland for a cap price of in between. Not great, not terrible. He's absolutely a project though - I think if he hits 40+ points and plays well defensively he'll replace Pearson and may get an extended contract. If he plays the same as he has his entire career, he doesn't deserve another contract, or if he does, a price drop to around 2.5-3M. We just can't afford our 3rd line wingers to be getting 4-5M.

 

Raty is a funny one, he's a bit of a project but still oozes potential and is very young. Not many project prospects out there who are 20 years old. He had a great year after his draft, PPG in Finland, then has come over to the AHL and scored at a 0.5PPG which is decent. I just hope we don't mess up this trend of development. It only seems like he's a project after he was expected to go top-3 in the draft and slipped, so I guess he's been a bit of a project ever since he was drafted. The Canucks aren't the best at player development in all fairness but we'll see what happens. 

Organizationally, we're about to have one of the best draft picks in the last 10-20 years with possibly a top-10 if not top-5 pick in one of the deepest ever drafts full of centers. I doubt we get Bedard (but if we do this conversation is over), but if we get a top-3 pick we have a future elite center who may be better than Petey (Fantilli, Carlsson or obviously Bedard). If we get a top-5/6 pick, we get a very decent top-2 center in Yager, Dvorsky or Smith who can play pretty well as a 2C under Petey. Where Raty and even Klimovich slide in then depends on how good our next pick is. Raty may be a great two-way center at 2C, but if he doesn't produce as much offence as say Will Smith, he'll be a fantastic 3C.

admit it you have never watched this kid play... you called him a bottom 6 winger... that means you dont watch him play... he may not get PP1 time but he is not a bottom 6 winger... him and his linemates play the toughest minutes on their team... there are alot of people that put up 35 points and are bottom 6 wingers and the difference is that they are likely playing against weak competition... if you can get a player that holds their own against the best players in the world and they make 4 million thats fricking great...

[DownUndaCanuck]

13 minutes ago, Bad_BOI_pete said:

admit it you have never watched this kid play... you called him a bottom 6 winger... that means you dont watch him play... he may not get PP1 time but he is not a bottom 6 winger... him and his linemates play the toughest minutes on their team... there are alot of people that put up 35 points and are bottom 6 wingers and the difference is that they are likely playing against weak competition... if you can get a player that holds their own against the best players in the world and they make 4 million thats fricking great...

I've seen him play, he's got great hustle and always very noticeable but hands of rock, he just doesn't have that finishing ability or massive offensive hockey IQ but is sound defensively. 

 

A bit similar to the Mikheyev signing too, Allvin goes out and splashes cash on Toronto's third line winger and he ends up our first line winger.

 

It'll be interesting to see where Beauvillier slots in on our winger-heavy lineup next year. We just lost Mikheyev, Pederson and Bo so obviously he'll play loads this year in our top-6 but he has competition of Kuzmenko, Garland, Mik and Boeser. Don't know if he out-produces any of those guys. I think Tocchet will mix him in there but let's not kid ourselves, he's no 30 goal scorer.

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I've seen him play, he's got great hustle and always very noticeable but hands of rock, he just doesn't have that finishing ability or massive offensive hockey IQ but is sound defensively. 

 

A bit similar to the Mikheyev signing too, Allvin goes out and splashes cash on Toronto's third line winger and he ends up our first line winger.

 

It'll be interesting to see where Beauvillier slots in on our winger-heavy lineup next year. We just lost Mikheyev, Pederson and Bo so obviously he'll play loads this year in our top-6 but he has competition of Kuzmenko, Garland, Mik and Boeser. Don't know if he out-produces any of those guys. I think Tocchet will mix him in there but let's not kid ourselves, he's no 30 goal scorer.

Ilya M played with Mathews as a rookie. I remember seeing him play and thought "man that guys got wheels" ...  And was playing both sides of the puck.     He's been up and down their lineup, the same way Hyman was.     TO surely would have loved to keep both those guys, but they simply can't afford too.   Top heavy and all.   Eventually going to run out of Spezza's, Thornton's, Simmonds right?   Not sure what you're exactly getting at.    Nathan is an NHL caliber guy.    To me I was thinking Pearson replacement.   Middle sixer. 

[OldFaithfulCap]

I hope that raty can become a really good checking center - good for 25 goals, faceoffs and can hit and shut down others. That's what we need. Finns usually play physical, his size is good too and he'll add weight. Finnish mike fisher basically.
 

Also want to be able to say "f your hattys, we got raty" one day

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by OldFaithfulCap
f

[mikeyman109]

13 hours ago, DSVII said:

Beau is very underrated and I'm stoked to have him on this team. Just unfortunate we let another Captain go the Isles. 

Why is it unfortunate?> The last time we did that we got Bertuzzi and McCabe and a thrid round pick that became Jarko Ruutu. I like Linden but i make that trade every time.

This could turn out to be a similar trade if The young fin develops and we draft maybe a RHD??? Trades arent won the day you make them. they are made the years afterwards.

[mikeyman109]

12 hours ago, Westcoasting said:

I was really happy when we got McCabe as he was tough and could fight! That was short lived… but long term happiness! 

But McCabe became one of the Sedins when traded.

[DrJockitch]

7 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Allvin has taken on so many projects during his tenure. Bear, Studnicka, Stillman to name a few. Bear has been the only one who's playing up to his potential. This notion of buying low but players who aren't really cracking their own lineup, hoping they'll grow into better players with us is a bit silly. You've got to give quality to get quality, but this might be the start of say a 3-5 year plan.

 

 

This is what rebuilding teams do. You get projects hoping a couple work out by the time you are competitive again. If not you have some B prospects absorbing the losses while the A prospects develop in hopefully better situations. 
Much rather have Beauvillier absorbing the losses and losing culture of the big club and keep Podz down winning in Abbotsford for instance. 

[Westcoasting]

1 hour ago, mikeyman109 said:

But McCabe became one of the Sedins when traded.

Yes, that’s why I said long term happiness 

[Elias Pettersson]

5 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I've seen him play, he's got great hustle and always very noticeable but hands of rock, he just doesn't have that finishing ability or massive offensive hockey IQ but is sound defensively. 

 

A bit similar to the Mikheyev signing too, Allvin goes out and splashes cash on Toronto's third line winger and he ends up our first line winger.

 

It'll be interesting to see where Beauvillier slots in on our winger-heavy lineup next year. We just lost Mikheyev, Pederson and Bo so obviously he'll play loads this year in our top-6 but he has competition of Kuzmenko, Garland, Mik and Boeser. Don't know if he out-produces any of those guys. I think Tocchet will mix him in there but let's not kid ourselves, he's no 30 goal scorer.

I'm pretty sure that Boeser won't be around next year.  I think Beauvillier plays with Miller next year on the second line along with Garland.  Mikheyev and Kuzmenko play with Petey.

[DownUndaCanuck]

19 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I'm pretty sure that Boeser won't be around next year.  I think Beauvillier plays with Miller next year on the second line along with Garland.  Mikheyev and Kuzmenko play with Petey.

Yeh I think that'll happen too, massive drop off.

 

We go from having a 70pt Miller, 50-60 goal pace Bo and 60pt Boeser at the start of this year to...

 

10-15 goal Beauvillier, 15 goal scorer Garland and Miller next year.

 

2nd line practically halves it's production.

[Timråfan]

50 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Yeh I think that'll happen too, massive drop off.

 

We go from having a 70pt Miller, 50-60 goal pace Bo and 60pt Boeser at the start of this year to...

 

10-15 goal Beauvillier, 15 goal scorer Garland and Miller next year.

 

2nd line practically halves it's production.

I’m not sure why you’re so depressed?

Beavillier is a 20g scorer and with Miller he will probably reach 30. 
If he takes Boesers place he will get more ppg than him.

And most important, when we reach playoffs he seems to be a Petey type that thrives under pressure.

[250Integra]

Calling it now, Beauvillier will end up exceeding expectations here. He's going to be great playing alongside Miller or Petey.

[DSVII]

4 hours ago, mikeyman109 said:

Why is it unfortunate?> The last time we did that we got Bertuzzi and McCabe and a thrid round pick that became Jarko Ruutu. I like Linden but i make that trade every time.

This could turn out to be a similar trade if The young fin develops and we draft maybe a RHD??? Trades arent won the day you make them. they are made the years afterwards.

Oh I know, I was just on the trade Miller keep Bo train from day 1, but I can see the path to us reaping a good return from the deal. It was the best trade given the circumstances, but the circumstances are entirely self inflicted.

Edited February 1, 2023 by DSVII