Hockey Hall of Fame Mandatory Waiting Period - Who next?

[-AJ-]

Many hockey fans are aware that the Hockey Hall of Fame (HHOF) has a mandatory three-year waiting period after a player's retirement before they can be inducted into the HHOF; however, ten players have been considered so excellent that the waiting period for them was waived, a nod to how they were not only good enough for the Hall, but a level above most. These ten are as follows:

 

- Dit Clapper (1947)

- Maurice Richard (1961)

- Ted Lindsay (1966)

- Red Kelly (1969)

- Terry Sawchuk (1971)

- Jean Beliveau (1972)

- Gordie Howe (1972--he was still playing in the WHA and would return for one last year in the NHL in 1979-80)

- Bobby Orr (1979)

- Mario Lemieux (1997--he would make a return in 2000 and retire again in 2006)

- Wayne Gretzky (1999)

 

As you can see, no player has had the waiting period waived for them since Gretzky and the Board of Directors even said in 1999 that only for certain humanitarian reasons would a player have the waiting period waived for them.

 

In my opinion, the option to waive the three-year waiting period is a great way to acknowledge the best of the best into the Hall and I feel like a few active players will end up with careers that would deserve such an honour.

 

The primary two in my mind are Sidney Crosby and Alex Ovechkin, but chances are that Connor McDavid will also be at that level when the time comes for him to retire.

 

Should the HHOF allow for the waiting period to be waived based on a player's excellence or keep it the way it is? If they allowed waiving again, who among current players should have the waiting period waived?

[VegasCanuck]

Crosby and Stamkos are the 2 most accomplished guys on that list IMO.

 

I wouldn't do it for Ovechkin, partially due to the fact that he still has a picture of himself up on Instagram (I know there could be family issues) with.....

 

[King Heffy]

I'm against doing it as a rule in case of comeback attempts, but I'd make an exception for Jagr even though he's still technically not retired.

[Alflives]

Maybe Crosby. Definitely not any others. Got to be in the same level as 99, 66, 4, 9. 

[-AJ-]

25 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I'm against doing it as a rule in case of comeback attempts, but I'd make an exception for Jagr even though he's still technically not retired.

Yeah, I guess he could be considered active still. A good choice too.

[Diamonds]

If Ovechkin does set a new NHL goals record I think there's a very high chance the waiting period gets waived. And if they're going to do it for Ovi they kind of have to do it for Crosby. It's also not unreasonable to think McDavid might end up with 10+ Art Ross' (he's already about to get his 5th at age 26) which would make an easy argument to have the waiting period waived.

[Elias Pettersson]

Only if the player is on the same level as Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr and Howe.  The fact there are no players on that level and probably never will I will say no…

[24K PureCool]

I am gonna go full communist and say no. Everyone have to wait. 

 

Only 4 universal truth for nhlers. Death, birth, tax, and waiting 3 years to be eligible for HHoF. 

 

[hammertime]

McDavid ain't won nuthin. Hasn't even had a whiff. 

 

Crosby 

Ovi

Bergeron

Jager

 

My votes FWIW

Edited April 7, 2023 by hammertime

[Kevin Biestra]

I think there's no need for future waivers.  The "first ballot" thing is enough.  That said anyone on that list getting a waiver other than Crosby, Ovechkin or McDavid would be a joke...and massively disrespectful to better players than them like Paul Coffey, Ray Bourque, Denis Potvin, Patrick Roy, Martin Brodeur, Jacques Plante, Phil Esposito etc. who did not receive immediate induction.

 

But hey, they didn't even wait for Chris Pronger to actually retire so...

 

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Kevin Biestra

[-AJ-]

5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Only if the player is on the same level as Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr and Howe.  The fact there are no players on that level and probably never will I will say no…

I generally hold an extremely high standard for it too. While I don't think he's there now, I do think there's a realistic possible world where Crosby could challenge that level and make the big four a big five. He's currently 35 and has about 1500 points. If he ages well (think Selanne) and plays at a point-per-game level (or close to it) until he's 40 without serious injuries, he could easily retire with 1800-1900 points and I think with those numbers, especially done so in maybe about 1600 games and in the 2nd dead puck era (around 2008-2018) there could begin to be an argument for him at Howe's level IMO. I'd have to look more closely at the numbers to see if I'd really think that, but I don't think it's insanely farfetched to think that Crosby could do it.

 

Although he's not quite on the same level, you have to think that if Ovechkin breaks 900 goals or even pushes close to 1000 goals that he's gonna have a lot of people talking about him at that level too. He has three years left on his deal and even if he averages only 30 goals per year, he'll end up at about 910-920 goals. He's kept up his pace remarkably well for someone his age.

[Kevin Biestra]

1 hour ago, -AJ- said:

I generally hold an extremely high standard for it too. While I don't think he's there now, I do think there's a realistic possible world where Crosby could challenge that level and make the big four a big five. He's currently 35 and has about 1500 points. If he ages well (think Selanne) and plays at a point-per-game level (or close to it) until he's 40 without serious injuries, he could easily retire with 1800-1900 points and I think with those numbers, especially done so in maybe about 1600 games and in the 2nd dead puck era (around 2008-2018) there could begin to be an argument for him at Howe's level IMO. I'd have to look more closely at the numbers to see if I'd really think that, but I don't think it's insanely farfetched to think that Crosby could do it.

 

Although he's not quite on the same level, you have to think that if Ovechkin breaks 900 goals or even pushes close to 1000 goals that he's gonna have a lot of people talking about him at that level too. He has three years left on his deal and even if he averages only 30 goals per year, he'll end up at  about 910-920 goals. He's kept up his pace remarkably well for someone his age.

 

I think Crosby's legacy already is whatever it is going to be.  He was the shining light of the NHL for about a decade.  Whether he finishes at 1600 points or 1800 or even 2000...unless he has a rebirth when it comes to Stanley Cups (and not a Bryan Trottier or Mark Recchi style supporting player role) then that will just be numbers and whether he finishes around Sakic, Yzerman, Dionne, Messier or Jagr in terms of total numbers isn't really that important.

 

For me that's not enough to waive the waiting period but if it should be waived for anyone it is Crosby.  But as it stands...the last waiver ever was for Gretzky and you can't really improve upon that.

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, -AJ- said:

I generally hold an extremely high standard for it too. While I don't think he's there now, I do think there's a realistic possible world where Crosby could challenge that level and make the big four a big five. He's currently 35 and has about 1500 points. If he ages well (think Selanne) and plays at a point-per-game level (or close to it) until he's 40 without serious injuries, he could easily retire with 1800-1900 points and I think with those numbers, especially done so in maybe about 1600 games and in the 2nd dead puck era (around 2008-2018) there could begin to be an argument for him at Howe's level IMO. I'd have to look more closely at the numbers to see if I'd really think that, but I don't think it's insanely farfetched to think that Crosby could do it.

 

Although he's not quite on the same level, you have to think that if Ovechkin breaks 900 goals or even pushes close to 1000 goals that he's gonna have a lot of people talking about him at that level too. He has three years left on his deal and even if he averages only 30 goals per year, he'll end up at about 910-920 goals. He's kept up his pace remarkably well for someone his age.

Crosby is at Messier's level, regardless of how many more points he accumulates.  And Yzerman.  He's not going any higher than that.  Ovechkin will have the goals record, but I don't think that is enough to waive the 3 year waiting period.  I could be wrong though, they might do it for Ovechkin after he breaks the record and decides to retire soon after.  I wouldn't put it past the NHL to want to do that for marketing purposees.

 

The only other player is McDavid.  We still have 15+ years of him playing.  I guess anything could happen.  I mean if he wins 10 Art Ross trophies, 8-9 Harts and wins 3-4 Stanley Cups and breaks 2000 points, they might do it for him too.  But that is a long way down the road.  Who knows, maybe Bedard is even better than McDavid...

[IBatch]

No.   Others in the past also had to wait that were pretty good.    Bobby Hull versus Ovi.   He scored over 900 pro goals too.   Both won one cup (Hull also won Avco cups).   Crosby versus Yzerman,  Crosby is great and all, Yzerman on one knee almost retired was still a top two way center in the league, and apologies to Crosby but Yzerman also played the latter part of his career in the dead puck era and against stiffer competition.    The two are awfully close though.    I'd have Crosby before Ovi anyways,  and as of right now anyways, Yzerman ahead of both, same with Sakic (who did score over 100 points at 37...and IF his hand didn't get mangled in a wood chipper, probably would have played another couple seasons).  

 

In the end both WSH and PIT can't do it anymore or much longer in PIT case.   Believe we will start to see a decline, but it is a testament to both of them to be considered in the same realm as Yzerman and Hull.   That's pretty great company.    No way are they Gretzky, Mario or Orr though, and given those are the last ones waived ... and well Jagr also > career too then both those guys still ... it's a no from me.   

 

Edit:  Jagr.   Lost 1.5 years to lockouts in his prime (after the lockout he scored 123 points at 33 lol), missed four years in the KHL, came back and was a better player in his 40's then anyone not named Howe.    Who after a few years off, and at 45, led the WHA and voted the leagues MVP lol.    Jágr would likely have 2200 or so points easily had he stayed and played some of those lockout games.   Sakic probably also would have passed Howe.    For me personally, Crosby and Ovi will end up somewhere in that range of guys,  top tier all-time based on position.   With a small group of guys below Orr, Gretzky and Mario.   Special indeed.  

Edited April 7, 2023 by IBatch

[HKSR]

If OV breaks Gretzkys all time goals record, it should be automatic.  I don't think people realize how insane an accomplishment that is.  900 goals is a real possibility.  That's the equivalent of 60 goals a season for 15 years!!!  Let that sink in...!

[Kevin Biestra]

2 minutes ago, HKSR said:

If OV breaks Gretzkys all time goals record, it should be automatic.  I don't think people realize how insane an accomplishment that is.  900 goals is a real possibility.  That's the equivalent of 60 goals a season for 15 years!!!  Let that sink in...!

 

Except he only ever scored 60 goals once.  Gretzky scored 90, Brett and Mario scored 80.  Ovechkin never scored as many goals in a season as Bossy, Kurri, Bernie Nicholls, etc.

 

Ovechkin is incredibly consistent and durable.  No taking that away from him.

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Except he only ever scored 60 goals once.  Gretzky scored 90, Brett and Mario scored 80.  Ovechkin never scored as many goals in a season as Bossy, Kurri, Bernie Nicholls, etc.

 

Ovechkin is incredibly consistent and durable.  No taking that away from him.

Doesn't matter.  You break one of Gretzkys all time stats, you deserve instant recognition.  No one else in the history of the NHL has gotten even close.

[Kevin Biestra]

5 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Doesn't matter.  You break one of Gretzkys all time stats, you deserve instant recognition.  No one else in the history of the NHL has gotten even close.

 

Instant recognition...

 

First ballot Hall of Famer is good enough for me.

 

Those previous waivers of the waiting period were never about career numbers.  Orr never even got 1000 points.  They were about the player's impact on the game and the fans...coming as close to being bigger than the game as a player can be.

 

That's why I have Crosby ahead of Ovechkin if a waiver were to happen.  Crosby was as close to being hockey as anyone has been since Gretzky and Lemieux.  And I wouldn't even waive it for him.  Same with Ovechkin, record or not.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Kevin Biestra

[HKSR]

Just now, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Instant recognition...

 

First ballot Hall of Famer is good enough for me.

 

Those previous waivers of the waiting period were never about career numbers.  Orr never even got 1000 points.  They were about the player's impact on the game and the fans...coming as close to being bigger than the game as a player can be.

 

That's why I have Crosby ahead of Ovechkin if a waiver were to happen.  Crosby was as close to being hockey as anyone has been since Gretzky and Lemieux.  And I wouldn't even waived it for him.  Same with Ovechkin, record or not.

If OV breaks Gretzkys record, I think it's safe to say 99% of the hockey world would tout him as the greatest goal scorer in the history of the NHL.  I'd say that's a pretty significant impact to the game.

[IBatch]

16 minutes ago, HKSR said:

If OV breaks Gretzkys record, I think it's safe to say 99% of the hockey world would tout him as the greatest goal scorer in the history of the NHL.  I'd say that's a pretty significant impact to the game.

He's already broken Gretzky's 40 goal season number (not sure if that's an official record, but assume it is).    To me he's in the same category as Bobby Hull, until 900 or so anyways.    Beaten Andrechyuks power play goals too.     Greatest goal scorer ... well some will say no.   72 shorties, and a long ways to go to even strength goals too.    It's for sure an incredible milestone.    But nobody, not even Bossy can touch Gretzky's first ten seasons.   Add another 51 WHA goals as a 17 year old it raises the bar too.   Ovi is breaking the record based on durability and longevity.    Curiously, if you add all Howes pro goals, regular and playoff combined, Gretzky got one more overall, a record that will take some time to beat yet. 

 

Playoffs matter too.   So wouldn't go so far as to say 99%.    Ovi's going to have to not just surpass the regular season goal mark, but obliterate it.   1000 goals?   Yes then pretty sure then it's reasonable.