[Report/Rumour] Elias Pettersson Contract Talks

[HKSR]

17 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

He should get him a better accountant if he’s worried about taxes lol.

Not much an accountant can do about tax withholdings from the Provincial and Federal governments lol.  Anything an accountant can do to get back some of that tax withheld is the same thing an accountant can do for Mr. Barkov in Florida, but Mr. Barkov has more money to work with because the government didn't force him to cough over as much tax to begin with.

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, HKSR said:

If it's an exchange rate thing, there's no advantage to being paid USD.  The world of forex is literally designed to eliminate that.  $13M in Canada = $10M in the USA.  A $1.00 item in the USA is generally $1.30 in Canada.  So your buying power is the same.  All else being equal. 

 

Guys choosing US cities to be anonymous is a separate issue altogether. 

Your arguing is silly. 10 mil US is 13+ mil Canadian. Petey lives in Vancouver for most of the year. He has a lot more money living here than he would in a US city. That’s not arguable fact. And there are a lot of reasons for certain products to be cheaper in the US than up here, that don’t have anything to do with the value of currency. 
Now bow to Alf’s empties. 

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, HKSR said:

Yeah $11M is very fair and accurate IMO.  Gotta remember Barkov is in Florida, one of the lowest, if not lowest taxed states in the entire NHL.  If anything, $11M for Petey would be Petey leaving a few hundred thousand on the table.

For sure he is.   Barkov and Bobrovsky take home about the same as McDavid does.    The way around that, is front loading deals.    I'm expecting that's exactly what they do with EP. 

[IBatch]

35 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Your arguing is silly. 10 mil US is 13+ mil Canadian. Petey lives in Vancouver for most of the year. He has a lot more money living here than he would in a US city. That’s not arguable fact. And there are a lot of reasons for certain products to be cheaper in the US than up here, that don’t have anything to do with the value of currency. 
Now bow to Alf’s empties. 

Alf, love you man.   But already explained this a bunch of times.   Any NHLer can buy property anywhere they desire to do.   As far as luxury items go, it's almost  always cheaper to purchase in the US, even when exchange rates go to .65 or so.   You can buy a car in the US, for 40-50% less than we are paying.    And well, there is a reason why people close to the border, shop in the US too.   Even with the exchange rate.   You can't compare 36.6% tax to 53%.   Spend some time on the gavingroup calculator.   I've been talking about this now, for a decade.    Vancouver is also expensive, even with the exchange rate.    Most people will never own a home there unless it's gifted to them through an inheritance.   Have had lots of family and lived there myself,  the days of a Poppa working in a gas station, as  mechanic, with four kids and a stay at home wife, well that went away in the 70's early 80's.    The 80's?  It took a pretty educated person to live in Surrey and have a stay at home parent or Port Coquitlam.   That dream was gone by the 90's without two educated hard working parents.   Now it's just silly.     So.   Hockey players.   They make huge coin.   Seattle is considered the sister city (Vancouver is way better!), but 36.6 versus 53%, with an average NHL career of now 5.5 years instead of 7... You can bet these guys are choosing these cities, and a whole pile of others who get taxed at 40-41% for a reason.
 

Edit:  Just go look at what a normal car sells for in the US.   It's close.  But then go look at luxury car.   It's not close at all.  Factoring exchange rates.   And food.  And gas.   It's sad really.    Plus if you want to have a baby lol.  Yikes.  

Check out that cost too!  Alf's empties have me there for sure! 

Edited August 1, 2023 by IBatch

[PhillipBlunt]

14 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Alf, love you man.   But already explained this a bunch of times.   Any NHLer can buy property anywhere they desire to do.   As far as luxury items go, it's almost  always cheaper to purchase in the US, even when exchange rates go to .65 or so.   You can buy a car in the US, for 40-50% less than we are paying.    And well, there is a reason why people close to the border, shop in the US too.   Even with the exchange rate.   You can't compare 36.6% tax to 53%.   Spend some time on the gavingroup calculator.   I've been talking about this now, for a decade.    Vancouver is also expensive, even with the exchange rate.    Most people will never own a home there unless it's gifted to them through an inheritance.   Have had lots of family and lived there myself,  the days of a Poppa working in a gas station, as  mechanic, with four kids and a stay at home wife, well that went away in the 70's early 80's.    The 80's?  It took a pretty educated person to live in Surrey and have a stay at home parent or Port Coquitlam.   That dream was gone by the 90's without two educated hard working parents.   Now it's just silly.     So.   Hockey players.   They make huge coin.   Seattle is considered the sister city (Vancouver is way better!), but 36.6 versus 53%, with an average NHL career of now 5.5 years instead of 7... You can bet these guys are choosing these cities, and a whole pile of others who get taxed at 40-41% for a reason.
 

Edit:  Just go look at what a normal car sells for in the US.   It's close.  But then go look at luxury car.   It's not close at all.  Factoring exchange rates.   And food.  And gas.   It's sad really.    Plus if you want to have a baby lol.  Yikes.  

Check out that cost too!  Alf's empties have me there for sure! 

How is Vancouver better than Seattle?

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

KOS “was” (past tense) entertaining?

KOS is great! 

Weren't they banned or something

[canuck73_3]

11 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Weren't they banned or something

Fell victim to repeated name calling/misinformation in the covid thread and got the ban hammer I believe 

[Coconuts]

Just now, canuck73_3 said:

Fell victim to repeated name calling/misinformation in the covid thread and got the ban hammer I believe 

A shame, didn't always see eye to eye with them but varied takes and views are vital to a healthy discourse 

 

But that thread was a heated one

[IBatch]

55 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

How is Vancouver better than Seattle?

Well the roads for one.  And the weather is also better.   Mountains.   It's not in the US.   I don't think Seattle holds a candle to Vancouver, aside from fisherman's wharf which is cool. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by IBatch

[HKSR]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Your arguing is silly. 10 mil US is 13+ mil Canadian. Petey lives in Vancouver for most of the year. He has a lot more money living here than he would in a US city. That’s not arguable fact. And there are a lot of reasons for certain products to be cheaper in the US than up here, that don’t have anything to do with the value of currency. 
Now bow to Alf’s empties. 

Alf, is something in the USA costs $1.00, and in Canada it costs $1.30 due to the exchange rate, you don't actually have a lot more money when exchange rates are the same for goods and services as it is for income.

 

Say you make $10.00 in the USA, and $13.00 in Canada due to the exchange rate.

The item you want to buy is $1.00 in the USA and $1.30 in Canada due to the exchange rate.

 

How many of the items can you buy in each country?

USA = $10.00 / $1.00 per item = 10 items

Canada = $13.00 / $1.30 per item = 10 items

[HKSR]

49 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Weren't they banned or something

 

36 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Fell victim to repeated name calling/misinformation in the covid thread and got the ban hammer I believe 

What about that "Forsberg the Great" guy?  What happened to him? 

[IBatch]

21 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Alf, is something in the USA costs $1.00, and in Canada it costs $1.30 due to the exchange rate, you don't actually have a lot more money when exchange rates are the same for goods and services as it is for income.

 

Say you make $10.00 in the USA, and $13.00 in Canada due to the exchange rate.

The item you want to buy is $1.00 in the USA and $1.30 in Canada due to the exchange rate.

 

How many of the items can you buy in each country?

USA = $10.00 / $1.00 per item = 10 items

Canada = $13.00 / $1.30 per item = 10 items

And it doesn't matter anyways.   They all get paid in US funds.   You can bet they buy luxury items in the US and keep them in the US, and bring them up to Canada too.  Cars for sure, but also boats.   Just check out what a decked out Corvette, or Porsche or something fancier costs ... it's a massive difference and has been since I was a kid (going back to the 70's).   My buddies used to buy US BMW's,  bring them up, pay the duty, change them over and sell them for twice as much ... in the 80's.    People who want to earn some fast cash - look into that.   Used to be allowed to do 5 cars a year before needing a dealers license.  Don't know if that's the same (late 80's early 90's), but it put some of my pals through University. 

 

Also know from experience, what I paid for a CAN model fast car,  was double the same thing from the US.   So ... not sure if that's changed because i'm not allowed to be ridiculous anymore (and wouldn't do it even if I had the extra money - that phase is over), but the last time I checked (about five years ago), the same type of car I was looking at, instead of costing 150k CAN, was selling for 70k (US) south of the border; even with exchange, duty and switching it over, it's worth the time and energy unless your too rich to care about that sort of thing,    Corvette's are cool machines.   

Edited August 1, 2023 by IBatch

[canuck73_3]

13 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

What about that "Forsberg the Great" guy?  What happened to him? 

I think he got banned too but can't remember why

 

[IBatch]

15 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

What about that "Forsberg the Great" guy?  What happened to him? 

The guy who I know got brow beaten straight out of town, and was actually 95% correct, although his delivery was so negative and cringeworthy at times, was "The Gaurdian".   Turns out most of what he was going on about with JB was nothing short of prophecy.   But his/her delivery, was pretty tough to take.  

[canuck73_3]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

The guy who I know got brow beaten straight out of town, and was actually 95% correct, although his delivery was so negative and cringeworthy at times, was "The Gaurdian".   Turns out most of what he was going on about with JB was nothing short of prophecy.   But his/her delivery, was pretty tough to take.  

He was so smarmy. 

[JamesB]

15 hours ago, HKSR said:

Why not?  If you look at the low state tax teams, their top guys generally have lower cap hits.  Primarily because they don't need as much gross income to net the same amount as other places.  This is very common knowledge, but the league doesn't seem to care.

 

13 hours ago, Alflives said:

Canadian dollar is 30% less. Guys are paid in US funds. I’m pretty sure Petey’s agent is well aware that 10 mil US is 13 mil for Petey in Vancouver. IMHAO this exchange rate was a factor in us getting Miller on such a team friendly deal. He’s getting 8 US but seeing 10+ Canadian after exchange. That’s a huge selling factor for Petey too. 

I know I shouldn't get into this, but I will. @HKSR is right. There are lots of people (accountants, player agents, economists) who routinely do comparative cost of living calculations. Lots of websites do them. Here is one https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living

 

You can compare the cost of living across any two cities, like Vancouver and Tampa. The website answers the following question. If you have some amount of money after tax (like US$1 million) to spend in Tampa, how much would you need (after tax) to buy the same stuff in Vancouver. 

 

Of course, for any given person it depends on what things they like to buy, but these websites use a standard consumption bundle.  

 

The comparison between Vancouver and Tampa shows that they are similar, but Vancouver is slightly more expensive. This is AFTER adjusting for exchange rates.  So, Alf, your argument that the exchange rate comparison somehow makes an NHL salary worth more in Vancouver just is not right. 

 

This website does not incorporate tax effects.  There are also websites that will do comparative tax calculations. NHL tax comparisons are tricky because the amount of tax players depends on where they reside at different times of the year and players also pay "jock taxes" on income they are deemed to earn in the cities where they play away games.  Still, once you account for taxes, Florida teams and other low-tax teams have a big advantage over Vancouver in terms of the after-tax purchasing power provided by equal before-tax income. 

 

A good article on all this is here: https://hockey-graphs.com/2019/01/08/how-much-do-nhl-players-really-make-part-2-taxes/

 

This article has a nice table showing the effective tax rate for a bunch of different players, The data is a bit old but the comparison are still correct. The highest effective tax rates on the list are for Montreal and Toronto (both about 53%). The lowest are for Nashville and Dallas (both about 37%). That is pretty big difference. 

 

Of course, many players prefer to be in cities like Vancouver, Montreal, Toronto, and the California cities for various personal reasons and are willing to give up some after tax purchasing power for that. 

 

But teams like Vegas, Dallas, and the Florida teams have an advantage. Today in the Athletic there is a good article comparing the "contract efficiency" of various teams. Here is the URL.https://theathletic.com/4707263/2023/07/31/nhl-contract-efficiency-rankings-2023/

 

Guess which teams are at the top. The teams at the top are low tax teams. Florida is first, Carolina is second, and Colorado is third. Those are all low tax teams. Vancouver rates about the middle in 18th place, which is not bad in view of the high-cost, high-tax environment. 

 

Taxes are not the whole story. A lot of the story relates to GM competence and to the intrinsic appeal of different cities to players. But low taxes give some teams a head start. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by JamesB

[wildcam]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

Canadian dollar is 30% less. Guys are paid in US funds. I’m pretty sure Petey’s agent is well aware that 10 mil US is 13 mil for Petey in Vancouver. IMHAO this exchange rate was a factor in us getting Miller on such a team friendly deal. He’s getting 8 US but seeing 10+ Canadian after exchange. That’s a huge selling factor for Petey too. 

Petey will get a great deal only 24, previous 2 yrs scored more then 30 goals.. Last season hit 102 points..

New contract starts at 10.7-- 11.3 million  X 8 yrs-- Maybe he signs 3 yrs X 10.8-  cashes in for bigger contract with cap going up?

Will be interesting but it won't be cheap top 10 forward and so young..

Thats  the cost  if you want to keep a top 10 forward..

[sxqhfeh]

NHL Rumors: Elias Pettersson, and what if the Vancouver Canucks don't have a good season? - NHL Rumors

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by sxqhfeh

[wai_lai416]

10 hours ago, Alflives said:

Canadian dollar is 30% less. Guys are paid in US funds. I’m pretty sure Petey’s agent is well aware that 10 mil US is 13 mil for Petey in Vancouver. IMHAO this exchange rate was a factor in us getting Miller on such a team friendly deal. He’s getting 8 US but seeing 10+ Canadian after exchange. That’s a huge selling factor for Petey too. 

not really.. after factoring in exchange rate.. majority of the stuff in US still cost less.. a lot less.. gas is cheaper in us.. general household meds like tyenol etc are cheaper in the us.. ur phone bills are cheaper in the us.. even mcdonald is considerably cheaper in the us.. living in vancouver alone.. the exchange rate needs to be closer to like 1.45 to off set the cost of living here in vancouver.

[DeNiro]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

not really.. after factoring in exchange rate.. majority of the stuff in US still cost less.. a lot less.. gas is cheaper in us.. general household meds like tyenol etc are cheaper in the us.. ur phone bills are cheaper in the us.. even mcdonald is considerably cheaper in the us.. living in vancouver alone.. the exchange rate needs to be closer to like 1.45 to off set the cost of living here in vancouver.

Depends on what part of the US you’re talking about.

 

Living in places like New York and LA is not cheap.