[Report/Rumour] Elias Pettersson Contract Talks

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

Well only way is the prospect pool really. During the 4 million OEL penalty death years, Canucks better be sure prospects can step up and fill NHL roles at ELC

Could have kept OEL and sat 7.2 mil pin the press box and had a league minimal guy play those bottom pairing minutes for a total of 8. 
Benning left a big stain and Allvin washed it away. 
Woo is ready to play. Juulsson is ready too. Both are better options than OElevator. 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

On 9/10/2023 at 2:00 PM, TopChed said:

is it sustainable? We pay Pete 12 next year and the OEL buyout starts kicking our ass. How much do we pay Hronek? Whats left on the bone?  Sure Myers Cole and Beau come off it may offset but I don't see how we trend up? Alvin is going to have to do some real GMing not just fritter around the edges. 

Penny pinching our stars, when we have 5 wingers making 4.5 mil or more, is not the way to build a serious contender. Pettersson is the most talented all-around player we've ever had in our organization. Pay him as such, no matter the cost. In the meantime, we have Myers and 2 of Pearson/Boeser/Garland/Beauvillier to shed, and that will more than make up for Hronek and Pettersson's raises. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by HorvatToBaertschi

[iinatcc]

3 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Penny pinching our stars, when we have 5 wingers making 4.5 mil or more, is not the way to build a serious contender. Pettersson is the most talented all-around player we've ever had in our organization. Pay him as such, no matter the cost. 

Don't think Money is the real problem, Pettersson is going to get paid regardless where he ends up. 

 

If Canucks offer him 12 for 8 years, another team is probably willing to offer him 12.5 million for 7. 

 

Every rests in this season 

Edited September 12, 2023 by iinatcc

[HorvatToBaertschi]

7 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

Don't think Money is the real problem, Pettersson is going to get paid regardless where he ends up. 

 

If Canucks offer him 12 for 8 years, another team is probably willing to offer him 12.5 million for 7. 

 

Every rests in this season 

Let a team offer that, we'll take the 4 1st rounders 

 

This whole ordeal has so many people (not counting you here, just what I see everywhere) forgetting that EP is a RFA, and we have all the control. I almost dare a team to sign him to an offer sheet. It can only be beneficial for us.

[aGENT]

On 9/10/2023 at 11:00 AM, TopChed said:

is it sustainable? We pay Pete 12 next year and the OEL buyout starts kicking our ass. How much do we pay Hronek? Whats left on the bone?  Sure Myers Cole and Beau come off it may offset but I don't see how we trend up? Alvin is going to have to do some real GMing not just fritter around the edges. 

Pearson is coming off as well FWIW. Myers and Pearson's expiring cap should easily cover raises for Petey, Hronek and the increase (~$2.4m) of the OEL buyout). Cole and Beau's cap, plus whatever the cap goes up, gives us cash to spend on hopefully another (actually complementary) top 4 D, fill out winger depth (along with some kids) etc. It's really not that bad.

 

On 9/10/2023 at 4:07 PM, Provost said:

I felt like a lone voice in the woods when I appealed for them to trade Virtanen when he went in that two month incredible hot streak of almost an PPG.  

Not lone. I was screaming for us to add what it took to Virtanen to get the rumoured to be available Bennett out of CAL for him. How good would Bennett have looked on this team?!

Edited September 12, 2023 by aGENT

[Gurn]

23 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Pearson is coming off as well FWIW. Myers and Pearson's expiring cap should easily cover raises for Petey, Hronek and the increase (~$2.4m) of the OEL buyout). Cole and Beau's cap, plus whatever the cap goes up, gives us cash to spend on hopefully another (actually complementary) top 4 D, fill out winger depth (along with some kids) etc. It's really not that bad.

However it is also not really that good either.

Cap Friendly shows 11 players signed with $30.9 mil in space available.

Hronek and Petey $18 mill for the two of them.?

 

Then they need 10 players:

back up tender

#4 d man

entire 4rth line

a 3rd line winger

a 5 and 6 d man

plus a trio of bench depth ( 2 forwards and 1 dman)?

 

all for $12.9 mill

 

Hopefully the cap goes up enough that they can get a decent #4 d man. 

Looks like the rest will mostly be minimum wage guys.

 

[iinatcc]

1 hour ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Let a team offer that, we'll take the 4 1st rounders 

 

This whole ordeal has so many people (not counting you here, just what I see everywhere) forgetting that EP is a RFA, and we have all the control. I almost dare a team to sign him to an offer sheet. It can only be beneficial for us.

Well not the next expiration but he can and will find his way out of Vancouver if he actually wants. 

 

Pettersson has representatives that can get things done for him. If he wants out of Vancouver in the next couple of seasons, he will find a way

Edited September 12, 2023 by iinatcc

[HorvatToBaertschi]

12 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

Well not the next expiration but he can and will find his way out of Vancouver if he actually wants. 

 

Pettersson has representatives that can get things done for him. If he wants out of Vancouver in the next couple of seasons, he will find a way

Luckily for us, any way out fathomable is beneficial for us in the long run. I do think that management is avoiding that at all costs, so I'm not worried either way. 

[Diamonds]

51 minutes ago, Gurn said:

However it is also not really that good either.

Cap Friendly shows 11 players signed with $30.9 mil in space available.

Hronek and Petey $18 mill for the two of them.?

 

Then they need 10 players:

back up tender

#4 d man

entire 4rth line

a 3rd line winger

a 5 and 6 d man

plus a trio of bench depth ( 2 forwards and 1 dman)?

 

all for $12.9 mill

 

Hopefully the cap goes up enough that they can get a decent #4 d man. 

Looks like the rest will mostly be minimum wage guys.

 

Podkolzin also might earn a raise if he has a decent year

[Gawdzukes]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

Pearson is coming off as well FWIW. Myers and Pearson's expiring cap should easily cover raises for Petey, Hronek and the increase (~$2.4m) of the OEL buyout). Cole and Beau's cap, plus whatever the cap goes up, gives us cash to spend on hopefully another (actually complementary) top 4 D, fill out winger depth (along with some kids) etc. It's really not that bad.

 

Not lone. I was screaming for us to add what it took to Virtanen to get the rumoured to be available Bennett out of CAL for him. How good would Bennett have looked on this team?!

Yup, I remember you saying that repeatedly and it seemed like a real good idea. 

[TopChed]

6 hours ago, iinatcc said:

Well only way is the prospect pool really. During the 4 million OEL penalty death years, Canucks better be sure prospects can step up and fill NHL roles at ELC

Pretty sure that's what we drafted all the overages this year. Hopeful one of them turns into a bottom 6 on an elc. I dunno though none of them seem particularly promising. 

[iinatcc]

34 minutes ago, TopChed said:

Pretty sure that's what we drafted all the overages this year. Hopeful one of them turns into a bottom 6 on an elc. I dunno though none of them seem particularly promising. 

Hmmm have drafting Overagers been historically a good thing? If memory serves me right the answer is no. 

Seems like a shortcut move to me. 

[Bure_Pavel]

1 hour ago, TopChed said:

Pretty sure that's what we drafted all the overages this year. Hopeful one of them turns into a bottom 6 on an elc. I dunno though none of them seem particularly promising. 

Just what we need 5'11" utility forwards with low ceilings. Its not like you can sign these type of guys in FA or trade late round picks for fully developed ones.   

[TopChed]

5 hours ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Just what we need 5'11" utility forwards with low ceilings. Its not like you can sign these type of guys in FA or trade late round picks for fully developed ones.   

I have no idea what they were thinking past our first 2 picks but Bains Hirose and mcWard look alright so maybe they aren completely inept but ya. Doesn't look good most of the guys they picked past Hunter were "interesting" I dunno though I'm no scout. 

[Provost]

7 hours ago, TopChed said:

Pretty sure that's what we drafted all the overages this year. Hopeful one of them turns into a bottom 6 on an elc. I dunno though none of them seem particularly promising. 

If that was the plan, it was a dumb one.

 

Over age guys are available for a reason.  They got passed over.  They also have less upside and development left.  A 4th rounder who is 20 has had two extra years of physical growth and development…. Less upside left.

 

There are always NCAA free agents that don’t cost a draft pick, European players, and cheap veterans to be had on short term deals

.

Draft picks should be guys you are aiming for a chance to be at the top of your roster.

[D-Money]

12 hours ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Just what we need 5'11" utility forwards with low ceilings. Its not like you can sign these type of guys in FA or trade late round picks for fully developed ones.   

"Utility forwards" are a huge part of the league. But finding the "right" ones can make a huge difference. Tampa Bay is a team that realizes that, and pays a premium to acquire them while still young and cheap. In many cases, the players were drafted as overagers (Coleman, Colton) or not even drafted at all (Jeannot, Gourde, Goodrow). There is value to be found there, whether it's as a team trying to compete in the present, or as a team cashing them in for more draft capital.

 

Ty Mueller is an interesting pick. He's not a guy putting up numbers against Junior players as an overager (as so many of these picks have historically been). He scored 25 points in 34 games in NCAA hockey, most of it as a 19 year old. He's one of the younger players, in fact the youngest C on the team, and yet the highest scoring. For comparison's sake, Cameron Berg put up one less point, and is 1 year older. He was drafted by the Islanders in the 4th round of 2021, and they seem overall happy with his development. But Mueller may be on a trajectory that is even higher.

 

Don't know as much about the other overager, Matthew Perkins. But he seems to have come out of nowhere - probably due to missing time due to Covid. In his first year in the USHL, he was the highest scoring C on his team (by a longshot), and the team won the USHL championship. Seems to be a late bloomer.

[Diamonds]

5 hours ago, D-Money said:

"Utility forwards" are a huge part of the league. But finding the "right" ones can make a huge difference. Tampa Bay is a team that realizes that, and pays a premium to acquire them while still young and cheap. In many cases, the players were drafted as overagers (Coleman, Colton) or not even drafted at all (Jeannot, Gourde, Goodrow). There is value to be found there, whether it's as a team trying to compete in the present, or as a team cashing them in for more draft capital.

 

Ty Mueller is an interesting pick. He's not a guy putting up numbers against Junior players as an overager (as so many of these picks have historically been). He scored 25 points in 34 games in NCAA hockey, most of it as a 19 year old. He's one of the younger players, in fact the youngest C on the team, and yet the highest scoring. For comparison's sake, Cameron Berg put up one less point, and is 1 year older. He was drafted by the Islanders in the 4th round of 2021, and they seem overall happy with his development. But Mueller may be on a trajectory that is even higher.

 

Don't know as much about the other overager, Matthew Perkins. But he seems to have come out of nowhere - probably due to missing time due to Covid. In his first year in the USHL, he was the highest scoring C on his team (by a longshot), and the team won the USHL championship. Seems to be a late bloomer.

Where are you getting that Matthew Perkins was the highest scoring C with Youngstown? Whitelaw is a C and scored 17 more points than Perkins. 

 

Mueller I don't mind as much (4th round still seems high though), but I'm still scratching my head a bit on Perkins.

[D-Money]

2 hours ago, Diamonds said:

Where are you getting that Matthew Perkins was the highest scoring C with Youngstown? Whitelaw is a C and scored 17 more points than Perkins. 

 

Mueller I don't mind as much (4th round still seems high though), but I'm still scratching my head a bit on Perkins.

Ahhh, you're right. I'll attribute that to posting when tired. Second highest scoring C then!

 

You can't just go by points though. Maybe he was used in a matchup role in the playoffs, and was effective at it? Perhaps they saw the tools needed for a shutdown 3C? There is so much to learn by watching the players, and determining their trajectory. And the pandemic really changed the development curve for a lot of prospects. 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[sxqhfeh]

On 9/16/2023 at 3:24 PM, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

PA is a fking liar, trade him until too late, do we want a Gaudreau situation?