[Report/Rumour] Elias Pettersson Contract Talks

[IBatch]

On 9/8/2023 at 7:11 PM, Provost said:

You called everyone dumb crybabies for discussing Petterson’s contract status… in the actual Petterson contract thread on a discussion board.

 

Your rationale was that you have the ability to tell the future and know how it is going to turn out.

 

I pointed out that was a super cringey post.

 

Your response was Ad hominem personal attacks that have nothing to do with the actual topic.

 

I think you may want to reconsider what the meaning of the word negative is.  Your posts are really toxic and most certainly aren’t positive.

Provost the Anthony G does have one of the more positive outlooks on the team, and Jim Bennings tenure as a whole.   Nothing wrong with that.    He gets into trouble as a result.   Because it doesn't really like up with our current reality and team build up.    It's unfortunate sometimes it ends up becoming personal for sure.    Saying they are really toxic, don't agree with that.  Or that they aren't positive, that only comes out when some gets into it with him. 

 

Negative, is having an annual countdown when we are out of the playoffs in November.   And gleefully maintaining that to make sure we all know what of course we do, our chances aren't good.   That's the truth.   Know you must have been nervous during the Bruce bump.. a couple points out almost pulled off a miracle, thing is hockey is full of them.   St. Louis of course a great recent example.  Dead last around Christmas, then won a cup. 

 

Short medium or long term fans of this teams have been through the wringer.   Maybe just ignore some of it instead of getting into the captain obvious stuff.   

We can also just enjoy the process, and the players we have while we have them.   Love this site, and before you get pissed off, also like a lot of your contributions.   Know I say things that peeve people off too, and sometimes it's intentional, depending on whom the poster is and their history on the forum.   This is one of them.   The mods are the leadership, but don't really enforce the little things.   This is me saying to you, that it takes two to tango, and either can take the high road, apologize and let it go.   Saying things "are really toxic and most certainly not positive"... maybe you've missed 90% of his other posts.   Kid loves his team, that's obvious, and believes in them.   Maybe we should all take a step back and consider that.   Don't you remember a time when you felt the same?    
 

Remember younger fans gushing over the WCE team, having no experience of the Linden era, and feeling it was the best we've ever had.   It was hard to bite my tongue at times.    There is some things to really like about the current one .

 

Three calder winners/finalists in a row.   A solid number one goalie, just entering his prime.  Two guys that could end up the best players all-time for us depending how things go (EP signs for 8 seasons, is healthy for them,  he's going to surpass the Sedins, and possibly even surpass Bure as the better player,  QHs just needs to finish his deal with us to pass Edler,  even with some injuries in there) ... We don't know what anyone is dealing with on a personal level.    

 

Hope if i'm bring a dick, someone calls me out, it's happened and i've thanked them for it and apologized.    You too should make up.   Forum needs both sides (devils advocate and some enthusiasm, positive takes). 

Edited September 10, 2023 by IBatch

[IBatch]

On 9/8/2023 at 5:02 PM, AnthonyG said:

Talk to buddy with the string showin. Where the hell is his reply at all even acceptable? He can share his dialogue all he wants, but that wasnt dialogue, thats a sour ass individual coming off pretty aggressive. No problems with his comments? 

Takes two to tango.   Next time just be polite and thank them for their input.   Or use a laughing  emoji, and don't reply at all.    Provost is a realist.  Does have some very good input on this site if you get into a good solid dialogue with him.   Just don't let it get you down, and don't make it personal even if it's personal or feel attacked.  We need your enthusiasm.   Seasons around the corner. 

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by IBatch

[IBatch]

On 9/7/2023 at 2:38 PM, Gawdzukes said:

 

Anthony is really a positive thinker dream big guy which is fine but I assume you're more like me and like to know better exactly what you're dealing with. The thing he's missing is every goaltender, or probably 90%+ that aren't named Hasek or Tretiak are partially a product of the team in front of them when measuring results. Like you mentioned above. So yes our goaltending and PK let us down at face value but it's completely unrealistic to think the team in front of them had nothing to do with it. Especially when it's spread across 3 goalies and an entire season. Don't the players play on the PK and on the ice in front of the goalie during the games?

 

You don't need to be a stat specialist or even a hockey enthusiast to watch last years Canucks and see how brutal the team was as a whole. Numerous times the puck was given away in our own end with little pressure, how many times did Myers just gift the other team a goal. How brutal were OEL, Stillman, and Bear? It was cosmically pathetic. They definitely weren't playing for each other as Bear alluded to when he first got here. They didn't even a have a plan to work on to get better. In addition, it wasn't even limited to defence. The forwards were a mess, didn't back check as a unit, gave up on plays routinely, don't cover their marks, don't get stuck in, and don't make high percentage plays, leading to continual odd man rushes the other way. Any one that watched could see there were far more serious problems then simply bad goaltending and a poor PK plan.

 

Once again we face a season where the prior season was a complete mess with nothing to really build on. Tocchet looked like he turned the ship a bit but there is a huge learning curve and a boatload of work to be done to get this team playing winning hockey, and we don't have half a year to figure it out. Hopefully the players and coaches are committed as they appear. We're going to need 100% buy in, 100% effort, and a little luck if we hope to do some damage.

Bingo.  Agree with this wholeheartedly.   The only thing i'd add is i'm pretty bullish on Tochett.   The player was something else, just look at what he did against Martin Broduer with the Flyers late in his career in the playoffs.    Know some wanted another merry go round with an experience coach.   We just did that with Bruce and it was a disaster last year.   Allvin was right from the start, we needed another systems coach.   Tochett and his staff are the most active coaching staff, i've seen, more so than AV and Crow.     Guys in they're looking like he could still play the game during practice showing them exactly what he wants to see.   

 

20-12-2 is a playoff team.   Without Horvat and an AHL D they did that, know against weaker competition, myself was thinking if they were .500 without Horvat/Hronek and Schenn it would be a fair finish, to a complete mess of a season.   Miller rightly so (love that he's honest at times and isn't a robot media sound bite) called the last two seasons "a shit show".    Bruce bump was a lot of fun.    

 

Brocks hand, Pearson's hand, OEL's ankle, Demko's injury etc, and no system but attack and cheat on the D for sure added to the shit show.  

 

Our division is getting better and better, right now it could be the best in the league, and for sure is the best in the West.   Vegas just won a hard earned and much deserved cup.   Was rooting for Dallas, another contender, doubt Florida beats them either.    LA, Blake did exactly what JB should have tried to do when he first came in.   Instead of acquiring Miller to replace Luongo, he could have forced the country club off the roster with crap goalies and worse support players until they waived.   Now LA's added PLD.   EDM will make the playoffs even if McDavid or Draisaitl go down.   That leaves wild card spots for teams like CAL, SEA, VAN plus likely two Central teams.    

 

For sure it wasn't just goaltending and Tochett is well aware of that.  "13-14 grade A scoring chances a game" needs to drop significantly.    And it can if the team buys in.   He did manage to reduce our shots by 3-4 a game during that span.   With mostly an AHL D.   Two legit NHL D's and one was Myers.    Hopefully the leadership on this team all are willing to "get uncomfortable" and the rest will fall into place.    Tochetts style should make us harder to play against (as will most of the new faces, even the shrimps).

 

See our PK much improved, even last season it was close to 80% after the coaching change.    New additions, and Demko his normal self, that should bring last years 69 goals against down to a respectable middle of the pack level,  50-54.    That won't be enough for the playoffs on its own though.   We also need to reduce our goals against 5 x 5, which is part of Tochetts game plan. 

Going into the season with a healthy roster will help give us an edge.   The players love Pearson, and rightly so.   Every line he was on during the Green era, had a boost in goals scored versus allowed net gain.   Even when he's not scoring, he's helping the team 5 x 5.   Creates a chance to have a legit shutdown line if Tochett goes Pearson Suter Mikheyev.       Wingers galore.  

 

If we had this roster two or three years ago, we'd be a lock for a playoff spot.   No Seattle to worry about, LA  re-tool hadn't quite bit yet.    It's important to have a five year plan in this league, and be mapping out what other teams are doing as well.   Hope Allvin is doing that.   Lou used to have every single NHL player's name on a card and on a wall in his office.   Talk about a vision board lol. JB was playing checkers,  we need a 3D chess player right now.   The best part about this off season and last year, was he was addressing issues.   Both micro and macro ones.   Dickie and OEL and Horvat out.    

 

Nice to see what this team can do with a better defense.   It's not an awesome one, but it is better.    For sure Tochett needs to get all these guys back checking, and quick right back to the attack.   To me we have a coaching staff that will teach.   Soucy wanted to come here (wanted him since MIN series, him and Hartman), because of Gonchar and Foote.   Guys got a bomb,  scored 10 two years ago without PP time.  That's darn good.   Cole is a legit 4-5,  Hronek according to Button a legit number 2.   When's the last time we've had a legit number 2?    Edler five years ago?  Also feel that Myers will be a lot easier to watch, and a lot better, not being relied on to play the McDavids of the world 80% of the time.   And that we won't be trading him now that his bonus is paid.   

 

It for sure will be an uphill battle.  Expect us to get between 91-96 points.   That's about what we got two years go plus or minus a little bit.    Canucks have been picked by some, as a dark horse this year, there for sure is hope.   

Edited September 10, 2023 by IBatch

[Provost]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Provost the Anthony G does have one of the more positive outlooks on the team, and Jim Bennings tenure as a whole.   Nothing wrong with that.    He gets into trouble as a result.   Because it doesn't really like up with our current reality and team build up.    It's unfortunate sometimes it ends up becoming personal for sure.    Saying they are really toxic, don't agree with that.  Or that they aren't positive, that only comes out when some gets into it with him. 

 

Negative, is having an annual countdown when we are out of the playoffs in November.   And gleefully maintaining that to make sure we all know what of course we do, our chances aren't good.   That's the truth.   Know you must have been nervous during the Bruce bump.. a couple points out almost pulled off a miracle, thing is hockey is full of them.   St. Louis of course a great recent example.  Dead last around Christmas, then won a cup. 

That is frankly a bunch of nonsense.

1.  Having an overly rosy outlook on the team is an entirely different issue than being toxic by name calling and being all around negative in regards to other posters who don't agree with.  That was the issue being discussed.  It wasn't me he was referring to when he started making rude comments and personal attacks on people for having the nerve to post about Petterson's contract situation (in the Petterson contract thread mind you).

2.  It isn't negative to post the factual math of our playoff chances when they become really low and have a discussion on "how can we turn this around for next year to help us become a winner".  It is simply moving the horizon to a season where the team has a chance of resetting.  Everyone DOESN'T know our chances aren't good and don't know how it is almost impossible to make up ground.... that was obvious from the response of several posters (which you can go back and look up if your memory has failed you), especially the first year or two.  It was certainly not "we understand but want to ignore reality", it was "you are stupid, that is factually wrong and the Canucks will make the playoffs."  When the math turned out to be right REPEATEDLY every year... as math tends to do... by last year, the response to those threads changed a lot and instead of folks having hissy fits because they didn't believe it... and it became a positive discussion of what moves could be made to set the team up for the future... as it should be and what my posts and comments literally said from day one.  Folks had a much better understanding and the talk turned to making moves intended for the future rather than an almost certainly futile playoff push.

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by Provost

[-DLC-]

56 minutes ago, Provost said:

 It isn't negative to post the factual math of our playoff chances

Let's get back on topic and try not to be on the attack of other people (the comments, sure). Not just you...everyone.

 

And, as part of that...."factual math" can predict but not accurately because so many human elements come into play. As I've said a million times: slumps/hot streaks, injuries, suspensions and, particulary (as we've seen, goaltending. If it was that easy to predict we'd all be rich.

 

The "ignore reality" comments suggest that you get it and others don't. But, reality is, it's not just something you can determine on paper or that you have all figured out and others don't. For every "overly rosy" take there's an equally negative take and it balances out. Truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

 

You talk in certainties...like "we're not..." but then you talk out of the other side of your mouth with "could be made to set the team up for the future". All unknowns.  The "could be" part is important.

Yes, there are things that teams do to TRY to set up for the future and there's a happy medium to be struck that this team maybe has not focused enough on. But you try different things "for the future" and they don't all pan out. We've had a few of those (and even sometimes given up too early on potential future set ups).

 

As for Petey, patience is required. This is a big deal (literally) for him and I don't expect it to be a one and done. We've seen it before. 

 

I think he'll be excited to continue with this group but if we completely bomb out this year that may change. He wants to win but, as part of that, he'll be counted on heavily to lead the way.

[Muscatel Marauder]

On 9/7/2023 at 9:01 PM, Gawdzukes said:

 

I was pretty young for Tretiak but damn I remember him shutting the door on the competition a couple times. Maybe I was young and impressionable. Just wait ... was I young once ... I can't remember.  

It's just the Matrix 

[TopChed]

On 9/1/2023 at 11:28 AM, AnthonyG said:

He’ll be hoppin on the wagon the moment he sees this team is capable of competing. He doubts this team from the getgo. Thats a bandwagoner. Has no interest and no faith until things are good. Either support the team and pay attention to the trajectory, or just dont comment at all. 
 

Vancouver was left in shambles after Gillis, of course it was going to take a long time to try and rebuild with pretty much no valuable trade chips to speed up a rebuild and the worst prospect pool. Be thankful we began finding NHL stars in 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018. Look at how many other teams took decades and are still a joke. FLA took ages, ARZ is perpetually stuck, EDM took eons, TOR took ages, those 2 teams were fortunate to have their fate changed by drafting generational talent. Where would they be without Matthews or McDavid? NJD took 11 straight seasons, BUF took a decade but is now ready to take over if they get quality goaltending. 
 

Vancouver did a stealth rebuild and didnt have to pay to draft Demko, Boeser, Pettersson or Hughes. We had nothing to give to gain, so of course with nothing of significant value to trade out, your on ice product is probably going to struggle. Yet we made playoffs twice in 5 years, missed because of COVID wiping us out, a poor start for half a season by our star players and then last year our #1 goalie had a bad start and then was out of commission for nearly 4 months. This team is going through some battles and fighting adversity, they are learning what it takes to be a pro and what it takes to take their game to the next level. 
2021-22 Petey vs 2022-23 Petey, MASSIVE difference when he came to camp early vs last minute. 

I have been a fan for 40 years +/- I can see the direction things are headed the short sighted moves the wasted draft picks and lack of vision. This does not make me less of a fan. I cheered for the Canucks through the Keenan years and the Benning years and now the Alvin years. Just because I don't love everything they do does not make me a bandwagoner. The OEL buy out was impatient. If they had waited a year the penalty would have been much more manageable but this mgmt much like the last is living day to day. This year we should be stockpiling picks and drafting top 3 not making a half hearted last ditch one and done cinderella run at the playoffs if all the stars align just right and Demko miraculously makes it through the season un injured. We what buy at the deadline? This is moronic. They are going to waste this cores prime by not taking their medicine and cultivating the farm. Lekkerimaki and Willander coming in on ELC's in 3 years are not enough to propel us to contenders. Having my eyes open and having criticism of what I see to be mortgaging our future for a mediocre present does not make me less of a fan of our club. Compounding our cap problems by loading up our wings is not the change we need. We have nearly 30m spent on wingers and no sand paper in our top 9. What's going to happen if we actually make the playoffs? As a true fan I don't want to be sold this snake oil I'm willing to go through the lows to reach the highs. 

[RWJC]

6 minutes ago, TopChed said:

I have been a fan for 40 years +/- I can see the direction things are headed the short sighted moves the wasted draft picks and lack of vision. This does not make me less of a fan. I cheered for the Canucks through the Keenan years and the Benning years and now the Alvin years. Just because I don't love everything they do does not make me a bandwagoner. The OEL buy out was impatient. If they had waited a year the penalty would have been much more manageable but this mgmt much like the last is living day to day. This year we should be stockpiling picks and drafting top 3 not making a half hearted last ditch one and done cinderella run at the playoffs if all the stars align just right and Demko miraculously makes it through the season un injured. We what buy at the deadline? This is moronic. They are going to waste this cores prime by not taking their medicine and cultivating the farm. Lekkerimaki and Willander coming in on ELC's in 3 years are not enough to propel us to contenders. Having my eyes open and having criticism of what I see to be mortgaging our future for a mediocre present does not make me less of a fan of our club. Compounding our cap problems by loading up our wings is not the change we need. We have nearly 30m spent on wingers and no sand paper in our top 9. What's going to happen if we actually make the playoffs? As a true fan I don't want to be sold this snake oil I'm willing to go through the lows to reach the highs. 

I agree with some of what you’re saying but the fact is they don’t start making a push, we won’t have the core sticking around. You can’t have it one way and the other as well. At some point you have to show the players that you’re serious. That what happened. 
 

You’re also looking at a team that will be reconstructed around Tocchet’s approach. He’s only had 36 games or so (with a 20-12 record). Let’s see what he requests from mgmt and how they deliver for him as the season progresses. It’s a fluid situation, not static. Can’t treat it like this current roster is the be all end all because it’s obviously not.

 

totally agree this team is not gritty enough to last through multiple rounds of the playoffs. But we’re at least heading in that direction now finally. 

[TopChed]

4 minutes ago, RWJC said:

I agree with some of what you’re saying but the fact is they don’t start making a push, we won’t have the core sticking around. You can’t have it one way and the other as well. At some point you have to show the players that you’re serious. That what happened. 
 

You’re also looking at a team that will be reconstructed around Tocchet’s approach. He’s only had 36 games or so (with a 20-12 record). Let’s see what he requests from mgmt and how they deliver for him as the season progresses. It’s a fluid situation, not static. Can’t treat it like this current roster is the be all end all because it’s obviously not.

 

totally agree this team is not gritty enough to last through multiple rounds of the playoffs. But we’re at least heading in that direction now finally. 

is it sustainable? We pay Pete 12 next year and the OEL buyout starts kicking our ass. How much do we pay Hronek? Whats left on the bone?  Sure Myers Cole and Beau come off it may offset but I don't see how we trend up? Alvin is going to have to do some real GMing not just fritter around the edges. 

[Provost]

5 minutes ago, RWJC said:

I agree with some of what you’re saying but the fact is they don’t start making a push, we won’t have the core sticking around. You can’t have it one way and the other as well. At some point you have to show the players that you’re serious. That what happened. 
 

You’re also looking at a team that will be reconstructed around Tocchet’s approach. He’s only had 36 games or so (with a 20-12 record). Let’s see what he requests from mgmt and how they deliver for him as the season progresses. It’s a fluid situation, not static. Can’t treat it like this current roster is the be all end all because it’s obviously not.

 

totally agree this team is not gritty enough to last through multiple rounds of the playoffs. But we’re at least heading in that direction now finally. 

Unfortunately it is kind of stuck because of previous bad decisions.

The OEL buyout was inevitable and unavoidable.  It should never have happened, but it was the result of not waiting a year for the last set of bad contracts to expire.

The offseason after the great bubble playoff run, if they believed in the team and wanted to make a push... THAT was the year to exit those bad contracts and use that money to retain guys like Toffoli, Tanev, and extend their young stars to max term deals.  Weirdly, that was the one year Benning in his entire tenure where he said outright "We have no interest in moving more high picks or prospects, they are too important for building a team."  The team had really good buzz around the league, picked as the next Canadian team to win the Cup, and interviews from lots of players saying until they got a chance to watch them in the bubble, they had no idea how good they were.  Of course, with the key cap casualties from that roster, the team went into a spiral the next year.

Which if course is obviously the time to pull the trigger on the OEL trade... because that is what you do when your team is bad and you don't have a plan aside from trying to keep your job next year.  Using the high picks to make it happen as well, that were off the table the year before when they could have really helped.

All that churn was the time that wasted early Petterson and Hughes years when they were on cheap ELCs, and cost us the future with them locked up to long term deals. 

From the outside it just looks like we have to see how this season goes because to keep this basic roster in place we are capped out going forward for the next few years with giving out raises.  If the team is bad again, that is really bleak.

[RWJC]

12 minutes ago, TopChed said:

is it sustainable? We pay Pete 12 next year and the OEL buyout starts kicking our ass. How much do we pay Hronek? Whats left on the bone?  Sure Myers Cole and Beau come off it may offset but I don't see how we trend up? Alvin is going to have to do some real GMing not just fritter around the edges. 

Again it’s fluid. Maybe Boeser gets moved after or during a really good season? Some ELC’s make their way onto the roster over the next couple seasons? Some younger cheaper players like Podz and Hogz work their way into a regular roster spot?

 

the things you’re concerned about are typical issues in the evolution of any team in the cap world. We’re not the only ones navigating a difficult route but I think there’s a stronger sense that we at least have some of the coordinates right, wouldn’t you say?

 

Abby is a prime example of how quickly we’ve turned around a mediocre (at best) developmental system. 
There are things worth acknowledging and recognizing that have been major improvements in a short period of time in contrast to other mgmt regimes. Hopefully it continues to translate on the big stage. 

Edited September 10, 2023 by RWJC

[Gawdzukes]

46 minutes ago, TopChed said:

I have been a fan for 40 years +/- I can see the direction things are headed the short sighted moves the wasted draft picks and lack of vision. This does not make me less of a fan. I cheered for the Canucks through the Keenan years and the Benning years and now the Alvin years. Just because I don't love everything they do does not make me a bandwagoner. The OEL buy out was impatient. If they had waited a year the penalty would have been much more manageable but this mgmt much like the last is living day to day. This year we should be stockpiling picks and drafting top 3 not making a half hearted last ditch one and done cinderella run at the playoffs if all the stars align just right and Demko miraculously makes it through the season un injured. We what buy at the deadline? This is moronic. They are going to waste this cores prime by not taking their medicine and cultivating the farm. Lekkerimaki and Willander coming in on ELC's in 3 years are not enough to propel us to contenders. Having my eyes open and having criticism of what I see to be mortgaging our future for a mediocre present does not make me less of a fan of our club. Compounding our cap problems by loading up our wings is not the change we need. We have nearly 30m spent on wingers and no sand paper in our top 9. What's going to happen if we actually make the playoffs? As a true fan I don't want to be sold this snake oil I'm willing to go through the lows to reach the highs. 

 

 

 

[TopChed]

1 minute ago, RWJC said:

Again it’s fluid. Maybe Boeser gets moved after or during a really good season? Some ELC’s make their way onto the roster over the next couple seasons? Some younger cheaper players like Podz and Hogz work their way into a regular roster spot?

 

the things you’re concerned about are typical issues in the evolution of any team in the cap world. We’re not the only ones navigating a difficult route but I think there’s a stronger sense that we at least have some of the coordinates right, wouldn’t you say?

 

Abby is a prime example of how quickly we’ve turned around a mediocre (at best) developmental system. 
There are things worth acknowledging and recognizing that have been major improvements in a short period of time in contrast yo other mgmt regimes. Hopefully it continues to translate on the big stage. 

I think like most I remain hopeful. Like you said maybe they move Brock or Garland or both Pod and Hog come into their own. Maybe Brock finally delivers. IMO probably in that case the best way up would be to sell high on Kuzz regardless MGMT needs to make some hard  potentially unpopular choices. 

[canucklehead44]

3 hours ago, Provost said:

Unfortunately it is kind of stuck because of previous bad decisions.

The OEL buyout was inevitable and unavoidable.  It should never have happened, but it was the result of not waiting a year for the last set of bad contracts to expire.

The offseason after the great bubble playoff run, if they believed in the team and wanted to make a push... THAT was the year to exit those bad contracts and use that money to retain guys like Toffoli, Tanev, and extend their young stars to max term deals.  Weirdly, that was the one year Benning in his entire tenure where he said outright "We have no interest in moving more high picks or prospects, they are too important for building a team."  The team had really good buzz around the league, picked as the next Canadian team to win the Cup, and interviews from lots of players saying until they got a chance to watch them in the bubble, they had no idea how good they were.  Of course, with the key cap casualties from that roster, the team went into a spiral the next year.

Which if course is obviously the time to pull the trigger on the OEL trade... because that is what you do when your team is bad and you don't have a plan aside from trying to keep your job next year.  Using the high picks to make it happen as well, that were off the table the year before when they could have really helped.

All that churn was the time that wasted early Petterson and Hughes years when they were on cheap ELCs, and cost us the future with them locked up to long term deals. 

From the outside it just looks like we have to see how this season goes because to keep this basic roster in place we are capped out going forward for the next few years with giving out raises.  If the team is bad again, that is really bleak.

That was when Benning went from a mediocre GM to perhaps the worst of the modern era and the worst in team history.

 

He finally put together a solid team - Quinn Hughes had a great partner and we found the best linemate for EP to date in a Toffoli.

 

Instead of re-signing them he goes off and gets Schmidt who was a terrible fit (left handed OFD forced to play a right side shut down role), signed Holtby who was already terrible at that point for 2 x 4.3M (Delia and Martin between the two of them were better than Holtby) and then bringing Virtanen back after he was our worst player during the run yet had some trade value coming off of a decent season. 
 

If he just brought back Tanev & Toffoli and perhaps moved Virtanen for a backup goalie I think we would have made the playoffs again the following year.

 

Then Benning doubles down on the stupidity making the worst trade in franchise history that is going to hamper us for the next decade - we were almost free and clear of his precocious eras as well. 
 

The whole blaming Gillis thing doesn’t excuse Benning’s compete repeated stupidity with awful signings. Allvin sure is a breath of fresh air - he actually seems competent. 

[ilduce39]

If Petey believes in himself, which he should, there was zero reason to sign his next deal early.  
 

He has one truly dominant season under his belt and if he repeats he can ask for whatever he wants.  Whether he bleeds the club dry, signs a Matthews-like shorter deal, demands a trade or even signs a reasonable deal is up to him.  
 

But whatever he wants he’ll be firmly in the driver’s seat next summer if he has another 100 point Selke vote year. With a lot clearer picture of what the cap situation will look like. 

 

On the bright side, if we can lock him up for 8 years at that point it’ll be safe from any age related uncertainty.  Injuries might pile up but you can go max term with a clear conscience.  We also get to watch a full season of a supremely motivated athlete at the top of his powers.  
 

Hopefully Allvin gets it done next summer.

Edited September 10, 2023 by ilduce39

[Alflives]

28 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said:

That was when Benning went from a mediocre GM to perhaps the worst of the modern era and the worst in team history.

 

He finally put together a solid team - Quinn Hughes had a great partner and we found the best linemate for EP to date in a Toffoli.

 

Instead of re-signing them he goes off and gets Schmidt who was a terrible fit (left handed OFD forced to play a right side shut down role), signed Holtby who was already terrible at that point for 2 x 4.3M (Delia and Martin between the two of them were better than Holtby) and then bringing Virtanen back after he was our worst player during the run yet had some trade value coming off of a decent season. 
 

If he just brought back Tanev & Toffoli and perhaps moved Virtanen for a backup goalie I think we would have made the playoffs again the following year.

 

Then Benning doubles down on the stupidity making the worst trade in franchise history that is going to hamper us for the next decade - we were almost free and clear of his precocious eras as well. 
 

The whole blaming Gillis thing doesn’t excuse Benning’s compete repeated stupidity with awful signings. Allvin sure is a breath of fresh air - he actually seems competent. 

Yup. We went from Gillis and his winning to Benning  and what he did to Allvin, who sure appears to be more like Gillis than Benning. And Thank the Hockey Gods for that. 

[TopChed]

To the crowd that says if we don't 

28 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said:

That was when Benning went from a mediocre GM to perhaps the worst of the modern era and the worst in team history.

 

He finally put together a solid team - Quinn Hughes had a great partner and we found the best linemate for EP to date in a Toffoli.

 

Instead of re-signing them he goes off and gets Schmidt who was a terrible fit (left handed OFD forced to play a right side shut down role), signed Holtby who was already terrible at that point for 2 x 4.3M (Delia and Martin between the two of them were better than Holtby) and then bringing Virtanen back after he was our worst player during the run yet had some trade value coming off of a decent season. 
 

If he just brought back Tanev & Toffoli and perhaps moved Virtanen for a backup goalie I think we would have made the playoffs again the following year.

 

Then Benning doubles down on the stupidity making the worst trade in franchise history that is going to hamper us for the next decade - we were almost free and clear of his precocious eras as well. 
 

The whole blaming Gillis thing doesn’t excuse Benning’s compete repeated stupidity with awful signings. Allvin sure is a breath of fresh air - he actually seems competent. 

In some ways yes I agree things are improving. Our armature and pro scouting is much better we have more hockey minds in our FO, they aren't rushing every kid into the show and actually developing on the farm. This is all incredibly positive.

 

While I don't think Benning was as terrible as some around here he really screw'd the pooch with the OEL trade up until that point we were trending in a positive direction. The bad money was 1 season away from being off the books. I'm curious how big a role the Sedins played in Bennings 2 biggest blunders the Loui signing and the OEL trade. Regardless...... That OEL trade was in the works for a long time. Aqua had a long time to seek outside counsel who would have told him to veto the trade and fire Benning for the mere suggestion. If we had just straight up run it back we would have drafted top 5 and all the poison would be out of our system. At the cost of 1 season of poor ratings and ticket sales.  

 

To say that Alvin is a breath of fresh air is a bit rich though. 

 

 

 

[Provost]

3 hours ago, canucklehead44 said:

That was when Benning went from a mediocre GM to perhaps the worst of the modern era and the worst in team history.

 

He finally put together a solid team - Quinn Hughes had a great partner and we found the best linemate for EP to date in a Toffoli.

 

Instead of re-signing them he goes off and gets Schmidt who was a terrible fit (left handed OFD forced to play a right side shut down role), signed Holtby who was already terrible at that point for 2 x 4.3M (Delia and Martin between the two of them were better than Holtby) and then bringing Virtanen back after he was our worst player during the run yet had some trade value coming off of a decent season. 
 

If he just brought back Tanev & Toffoli and perhaps moved Virtanen for a backup goalie I think we would have made the playoffs again the following year.

 

Then Benning doubles down on the stupidity making the worst trade in franchise history that is going to hamper us for the next decade - we were almost free and clear of his precocious eras as well. 
 

The whole blaming Gillis thing doesn’t excuse Benning’s compete repeated stupidity with awful signings. Allvin sure is a breath of fresh air - he actually seems competent. 

That was the summer when Benning ran out of chances for me.  I posted before it that it was the make or break time for the team.  Could he find a way to untangle the cap mess he made.

 

I felt like a lone voice in the woods when I appealed for them to trade Virtanen when he went in that two month incredible hot streak of almost an PPG.  All indications from the numbers was it was a non sustainable fluke.  The player showed us what he was for years, how they got fooled by a few weeks of hot play was astounding.

 

Then wasting all that time on the Markstrom negotiations and not even bothering to put offers in front of Tanev and Toffoli.  I really didn’t care whether they kept Markstrom or Demko really.  Sign Markstrom if you think you can get a solid return for Demko… let Markstrom walk, go with the cheaper option if you believe in Demko and use that money on other positions.  Either choice is reasonable. Letting Markstrom walk and then flinching and spending a bunch of money on an insurance goalie for Demko because you don’t believe in him?

 

The biggest cost was being too capped out to extend Petterson and Hughes to max term deals.   That was completely unforgivable.  The team was only going to go as far as these guys progress.  Pay less then for a benefit later when the team is more competitive.

 

This isn’t all hindsight, I posted all this stuff before the moves happened… as did a bunch of other folks.  Complete amateur lay people shouldn’t outdo the GM who has a whole staff and inside information.

 

Unfortunately, the same sorts of signs are there now for our future.  We seem to have built a team that should compete for the playoffs as a wildcard.  Our aspiration seems to be to get to the “mushy middle” and hope for a miracle run.

 

I am hoping for a big difference from having an improved defence and PK.  At the same time I hear defensive guys coming in saying that they really want to work on their offence.  That is a bad sign to me.  Our last successful era had role players who knew and prided themselves in their roles.  Malhotra didn’t come in and say he was going to try to score more.  Torres had a job of making the opposition too worried an about their health to think about making plays.  Hansen said that he prided himself in keeping goals out.  His radio hits as a pundit talk about how important everyone knowing those roles were to the team success.

 

I remember Gudbranson coming in and billed as the next Willie Mitchell, big, tough, stay at home, good scrapper.  His first interview he started talking about how much more offence he had in his toolkit.   We were then exposed to a guy who didn’t want to play the role he was brought in for and often just skated around in circles after the whistle while there were scrums in the crease.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Provost

[RWJC]

17 minutes ago, Provost said:

That was the summer when Benning ran out of chances for me.  I posted before it that it was the make or break time for the team.  Could he find a way to untangle the cap mess he made.

 

I felt like a lone voice in the woods when I appealed for them to trade Virtanen when he went in that two month incredible hot streak of almost an PPG.  All indications from the numbers was it was a non sustainable fluke.  The player showed us what he was for years, how they got fooled by a few weeks of hot play was astounding.

 

Then wasting all that time on the Markstrom negotiations and not even bothering to put offers in front of Tanev and Toffoli.  I really didn’t care whether they kept Markstrom or Demko really.  Sign Markstrom if you think you can get a solid return for Demko… let Markstrom walk, go with the cheaper option if you believe in Demko and use that money on other positions.  Either choice is reasonable. Letting Markstrom walk and then flinching and spending a bunch of money on an insurance goalie for Demko because you don’t believe in him?

 

The biggest cost was being too capped out to extend Petterson and Hughes to max term deals.   That was completely unforgivable.  The team was only going to go as far as these guys progress.  Pay less then for a benefit later when the team is more competitive.

 

This isn’t all hindsight, I posted all this stuff before the moves happened… as did a bunch of other folks.  Complete amateur lay people shouldn’t outdo the GM who has a whole staff and inside information.

 

Unfortunately, the same sorts of signs are there now for our future.  We seem to have built a team that should compete for the playoffs as a wildcard.  Our aspiration seems to be to get to the “mushy middle” and hope for a miracle run.

 

I am hoping for a big difference from having an improved defence and PK.  At the same time I hear defensive guys coming in saying that they really want to work on their offence.  That is a bad sign to me.  Our last successful era had role players who knew and prided themselves in their roles.  Malhotra didn’t come in and say he was going to try to score more.

 

I remember Gudbranson coming in and billed as the next Willie Mitchell, big, tough, stay at home, good scrapper.  His first interview he started talking about how much more offence he had in his toolkit.   We were then exposed to a guy who didn’t want to play the role he was brought in for and often just salaried around in circles after the whistle while there were scrums in the crease.

Edited September 10, 2023 by RWJC

[iinatcc]

On 9/10/2023 at 8:00 PM, TopChed said:

is it sustainable? We pay Pete 12 next year and the OEL buyout starts kicking our ass. How much do we pay Hronek? Whats left on the bone?  Sure Myers Cole and Beau come off it may offset but I don't see how we trend up? Alvin is going to have to do some real GMing not just fritter around the edges. 

Well only way is the prospect pool really. During the 4 million OEL penalty death years, Canucks better be sure prospects can step up and fill NHL roles at ELC