Who here is actually happy with the Hronek trade?

[Ted Lasso]

31 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Long term I like Hughes, Hronek and Hirose as our puck movers.  The triple H team.  So we need 3 defensive Dmen to compliment them.

Agreed. 
 

Juulsen and Woo have some potential, as does Johansson.  

 

 

[wai_lai416]

5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

If Pearson is on LTIR we are actually cap compliant, even with Poolman in the lineup.  This has been stated many times.  Some think Pearson may play next year, but not sure how that is possible if his hand is still in a cast after 8 months...

Sure but we still have to sign our rfa so possible 2mil for bear and you want to be under the cap to start the season so you get maximum ltir relief. With the current roster at this very moment let say we can’t move any contracts out without giving up sweeteners. How do we get under the cap on opening day? Say we are 3.5mil over the cap on opening day and we end up putting poolman and Pearson on ltir. Instead of getting 5.75 ltir pool. We get a maximum 3.5. Not exactly a good situation.

With bonus overage and a bare minimal roster with all the ltir players on the opening lineup I believe we will be right at if not over the salary cap. Which means we can’t even look at ufa until we move anything out. We want to bring back schenn? Tough because we wouldn’t technically have the space until the players are on ltir 

 

[Rick_theRyper]

12 hours ago, spook007 said:

Decline? Kuz is in decline? What makes you think, he won't score 30+ goals again?

We have Kuz for 2 more seasons at $5.5M...

If he continues to score as last season, he'll cost a lot more going forward. So they need to push now, while he is here on a reasonable contract. If they want to regroup, they may as well trade Kuz after his impressive first season. 

I wouldn't say Mika is on decline neither. Nor Garland or Beau? (Garland and Beau just paid too much, for what they bring).

 

If Hronek has a career season, and wants more than management thinks he is worth, he'll get traded again. Shouldn't be hard to find suitors to a Top 4 RHD with a career year. 
 

Time to see if QH and Petey with Demko can carry the team or not. 
 

If they can't get a total rebuild started and sell everything, but waiting for some draft picks to maybe work out or for the cap to be in a better position is just wasting more of Peteys and QH's years. 
 

 

Did I say kuz was in a decline, no. I said he barely got any mins with the new coach and got most of his goals under Bruce. So.... Yes they might go down. Never said decline though. I'm not saying trade him at all if he gets top mins he will produce. I just extremely disagree with the statement of "we have a top dog offensive group" 

[spook007]

7 minutes ago, Rick_theRyper said:

Did I say kuz was in a decline, no. I said he barely got any mins with the new coach and got most of his goals under Bruce. So.... Yes they might go down. Never said decline though. I'm not saying trade him at all if he gets top mins he will produce. I just extremely disagree with the statement of "we have a top dog offensive group" 

Fair enough... no worries. 
 

I responded to the part in yout post, where you said,

quote "Other than PeteyAnd Hughes (and Demko) this team is close to being on the decline in every other aspect. "

I read that, as being the remaining players on the team. 

[Junkyard Dog]

He's played 4 games with us so I am holding out judgement. I have watched him the past few years a bit and read a lot of what Redwings fans have had to say about him during said time(Love/Hate relationship). If he reverts back to his old self folks won't be too happy. He also has to stay healthy. 

 

Might not be the type of defenseman you can punch in with anybody. He's worked better with a specific type of defenseman. This year worked better with Maatta than a guy like Chiarot. It was almost night and day this in comparison this year. Unsure Myers or OEL would get the best out of him.

 

Maatta more along the lines of a Tanev. Not a physically demanding but a poise defensive defenseman. Redwings fans liked them together. Maatta/Hronek spent more time together than with any other partner. Maatta-Hronek had twice as many on-ice goals together for than goals against and had a .948 team save percentage when on the ice together which was best on the team by a solid margin I believe.

If we manage to clear enough cap it may be very wise to go after Maataa who's a UFA this year. I get he's a LD and might get pricey there but from a chemistry standpoint it might be smart to get them together again. He'd probably be cheaper than a guy like Gavrikov. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, EoH said:

I remember when we signed those Ironman FA’s back in the days and just our luck they get injured. 
 

Let’s hope it’s the opposite this time. 

Well we skipped a step by trading for a player already injured.  Maybe that'll break the curse 

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, Kenny Powers said:

Agreed. 
 

Juulsen and Woo have some potential, as does Johansson.  

 

 

Pettersson might be the best of them

[Timråfan]

21 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

He's played 4 games with us so I am holding out judgement. I have watched him the past few years a bit and read a lot of what Redwings fans have had to say about him during said time(Love/Hate relationship). If he reverts back to his old self folks won't be too happy. He also has to stay healthy. 

 

Might not be the type of defenseman you can punch in with anybody. He's worked better with a specific type of defenseman. This year worked better with Maatta than a guy like Chiarot. It was almost night and day this in comparison this year. Unsure Myers or OEL would get the best out of him.

 

Maatta more along the lines of a Tanev. Not a physically demanding but a poise defensive defenseman. Redwings fans liked them together. Maatta/Hronek spent more time together than with any other partner. Maatta-Hronek had twice as many on-ice goals together for than goals against and had a .948 team save percentage when on the ice together which was best on the team by a solid margin I believe.

If we manage to clear enough cap it may be very wise to go after Maataa who's a UFA this year. I get he's a LD and might get pricey there but from a chemistry standpoint it might be smart to get them together again. He'd probably be cheaper than a guy like Gavrikov. 

Chiarot took down anyone he played with was said in a post long ago. Probably in the tradeposting.

 

OEL made Myers look good so he won’t have a problem to let Hronek reach his potential if so.

 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

3 hours ago, Grape said:

Lol this is not why people “hate us as a fan base.” They used to “hate us” because we were a rabid fanbase with an elite team filled with pests like Burrows, Kesler. People pity us now. No rival fan looks at a Canucks fan reacting poorly to one of the many ill-advised moves management has made, and says “ugh why are the so negative?” In fact, our lack for rivals nowadays speaks to how no one really cares about us.

 

People have responsed to you already, but if you’re laughing your ass off at people making rational arguments on why they don’t like the trade, you’re probably a homer. You’re allowed to like the trade and there are arguments that you make that are fair, but failing to see why we’re worried as if it’s completely outrageous means you’re either a homer or can’t really understand the idea of value/opportunity cost - a trade is much more complicated than just “how good is the player you’re getting.”

I've made arguments defending this trade on what feels like dozens of recycledposts. If you haven't watched Hronek develop over the years (as I and many fans who are delighted with this trade have), or researched enough on him since then, then there's no reasonable argument to be had.

 

We spent a middle 1st and a middle 2nd round pick on the position we've been trying to bolster since Bieksa left nearly 10 years ago. We did that considering it's the most coveted position on the market, and with respect to our core's age and development.

 

It's a win every day of the week, and there's not much argument to be had, except if you'd be happy to move on from Petey, Miller, Hughes and Demko and start another long rebuild.

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

Sure but we still have to sign our rfa so possible 2mil for bear and you want to be under the cap to start the season so you get maximum ltir relief. With the current roster at this very moment let say we can’t move any contracts out without giving up sweeteners. How do we get under the cap on opening day? Say we are 3.5mil over the cap on opening day and we end up putting poolman and Pearson on ltir. Instead of getting 5.75 ltir pool. We get a maximum 3.5. Not exactly a good situation.

With bonus overage and a bare minimal roster with all the ltir players on the opening lineup I believe we will be right at if not over the salary cap. Which means we can’t even look at ufa until we move anything out. We want to bring back schenn? Tough because we wouldn’t technically have the space until the players are on ltir 

 

Sure, no one is arguing this. We are definitely right up against the cap. At least one forward will be moved. Maybe two. Garland is my bet to get moved. Will we have to attach a sweet to move him?  Maybe. But it is what it is. It wasn’t going to be easy to clean up the mess. 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Ted Lasso]

1 hour ago, Timråfan said:

Pettersson might be the best of them

That would be amazing, and the timing may work out for him to replace OEL at 2LD

[wai_lai416]

23 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Sure, no one is arguing this. We are definitely right up against the cap. At least one forward will be moved. Maybe two. Garland is my bet to get moved. Will we have to attach a sweet to move him?  Maybe. But it is what it is. It wasn’t going to be easy to clean up the mess. 

hence why i say even if they were all in on hronek they easily coulda waited till the draft and move out some cap first. Hronek is a massive risk with what we given up. that "undisclosed" injury in december not sure how anyone can think anything but a concussion would be his 2nd concussion in 2 years.. look at what we ended up with ferland and poolman.. people before wouldn't even want byram because of his concussion history.. how is hronek any different?

[BlastPast]

1 hour ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

I've made arguments defending this trade on what feels like dozens of recycledposts. If you haven't watched Hronek develop over the years (as I and many fans who are delighted with this trade have), or researched enough on him since then, then there's no reasonable argument to be had.

 

We spent a middle 1st and a middle 2nd round pick on the position we've been trying to bolster since Bieksa left nearly 10 years ago. We did that considering it's the most coveted position on the market, and with respect to our core's age and development.

 

It's a win every day of the week, and there's not much argument to be had, except if you'd be happy to move on from Petey, Miller, Hughes and Demko and start another long rebuild.

The trade is a risk but this post neatly summarizes a more optimistic, yet reasonable, take on that risk.  Also worth mentioning that Vancouver gets the 106th pick from Detroit. 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

hence why i say even if they were all in on hronek they easily coulda waited till the draft and move out some cap first. Hronek is a massive risk with what we given up. that "undisclosed" injury in december not sure how anyone can think anything but a concussion would be his 2nd concussion in 2 years.. look at what we ended up with ferland and poolman.. people before wouldn't even want byram because of his concussion history.. how is hronek any different?

He didn't get a concussion in December.  He was put in concussion protocol and then played the very next game 3 days later and played 24 minutes.  You can't get a concussion and play the next game.  It's actually against the rules.  A Detroit beat writer was on Donnie and Dahli and confirmed that Hronek did not get a concussion.  Here are the rules for a concussion:

 

concussion-protocol.pdf

 

If, after the evaluation noted above, the Club Physician determines that the Player is not diagnosed with concussion, the Player may return to play at the Club Physician’s discretion.

 

Players who are diagnosed with a concussion should undergo an initial, brief period of physical and cognitive rest (e.g., 24-48 hours). Players can then become gradually and progressively more exposed to activities (a “graded return-to-play progression”) that do not provoke cognitive and physical symptoms (i.e., increased activity level should not bring on or worsen symptoms). An example of a graded return-to-play progression is provided below. Generally, each step should take 24 hours. However, the time frame at each step may vary with Player age, history, etc., and management must be individualized. Club Medical Personnel should monitor progression through the exertional stages as well as continue to consider concurrent morbidities (e.g., migraine, neck, mood, sleep, etc.).

 

As for the trade, nobody even knew that Hronek was on the trade block.  If they did there might have been a bidding war.  Top 4 RHD's are wanted by every team.  Allvin is on the record as saying he was following Hronek for over a year.  Which means they targeted this specific player.  When Yzerman let it beknown to Allvin he was available, he pounced on it and got his man.  

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

He didn't get a concussion in December.  He was put in concussion protocol and then played the very next game 3 days later and played 24 minutes.  You can't get a concussion and play the next game.  It's actually against the rules.  A Detroit beat writer was on Donnie and Dahli and confirmed that Hronek did not get a concussion.  Here are the rules for a concussion:

 

concussion-protocol.pdf

 

If, after the evaluation noted above, the Club Physician determines that the Player is not diagnosed with concussion, the Player may return to play at the Club Physician’s discretion.

 

Players who are diagnosed with a concussion should undergo an initial, brief period of physical and cognitive rest (e.g., 24-48 hours). Players can then become gradually and progressively more exposed to activities (a “graded return-to-play progression”) that do not provoke cognitive and physical symptoms (i.e., increased activity level should not bring on or worsen symptoms). An example of a graded return-to-play progression is provided below. Generally, each step should take 24 hours. However, the time frame at each step may vary with Player age, history, etc., and management must be individualized. Club Medical Personnel should monitor progression through the exertional stages as well as continue to consider concurrent morbidities (e.g., migraine, neck, mood, sleep, etc.).

 

As for the trade, nobody even knew that Hronek was on the trade block.  If they did there might have been a bidding war.  Top 4 RHD's are wanted by every team.  Allvin is on the record as saying he was following Hronek for over a year.  Which means they targeted this specific player.  When Yzerman let it beknown to Allvin he was available, he pounced on it and got his man.  

And the reason Yzerman went to us was that Islanders’ first. It had very high value. Now it’s locked in at 18 we don’t even get a sniff at Hronek. Huge add by Allvin. 

[ilduce39]

7 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

There's a voice ... that keeps on calling him ... down the RHD road, that's inside CDC.

 

Every stop Hronek makes, he make a new friend ... can't stay for long, his shoulder hurts, he's gone again.

 

Maybe tomorrow, we'll want young RHD. Until tomorrow, the debate keeps moving on.

Not sure if you ever caught it, but “Hobo or Phobo” was one of my favourite “Littlest Hobo” inspired bits of all time on TSN 1040.  
 

Botch, Rintoul and DeBron.  Lots of fun.

[ilduce39]

7 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Severson keeps popping up as a name of interest but I'd be pretty surprised if we could afford him. 29 in August and this will likely be his last crack at getting a large contract, he's played his entire career with Jersey and has never made more than his current 4.1M. Dude put up 33 points in 81 games this season, 46 in 80 last season. He's hit at least 30 points 5 times. 

 

More than likely he'll be one of the most sought after RD and he won't come cheap. 

Yeah.  We don’t have the money or, really, room for Severson.  I know he’d be a #2 on this group but we’re committed to Hronek and Myers next year with the club being bullish on Bear.
 

If we’re doing a wish list I’d rather throw money at a shutdown LD to play PK for Hughes and OEL than chase/overpay for an RD. Even if we can move Myers, which is far from a sure thing.

[Junkyard Dog]

4 hours ago, Timråfan said:

Chiarot took down anyone he played with was said in a post long ago. Probably in the tradeposting.

 

OEL made Myers look good so he won’t have a problem to let Hronek reach his potential if so.

 

I don’t think it’s far from unfair to have concerns in regards of OEL and their fit and I wouldn’t go out and state things for certain when there’s too much uncertainty surrounding it personally. I think if Mattaa is available and we create enough cap it’s a no brainer and less of a risky move than higher priced UFAs
 

Mattaa won’t be as pricey as other D available, brings qualities we want as a winning team, Cup experience with our management, has been regarded as a good character guy and Hronek played his best hockey with him. Those are the facts I am gonna go by. 
 

If we clear enough cap though. We have other priorities first. I think if the opportunity arises I would take it. 

[EdgarM]

8 hours ago, Seannnp said:

Owner of the Dallas Stars was asked on Donnie and Dhali if he thought the Canucks should enter a rebuild and he said no and I agree. 

 

You do not rebuild a team when you have players like Pettersson, Hughes, Demko, Kuzmenko and Miller. If you do want to rebuild, you move every single one of the core and draft players hoping they become who you traded. Makes no sense in my mind. What if the drafted players dont pan out? Another rebuild? Start over again in hopes of finally drafting a Huges, Petey and Demko? Sounds stupid doesnt it? 

 

If Hoglander and Podkolzin can take the next step and we can find another top 4 defenseman and 3C, there isnt much missing unless some feel Petey, Hughes and Demko are not good enough to lead us to the Finals. 

This is what it boils down to, you picked them now you need to live or die on that hill. Oilers will do the same with McDavid/Draisaitl/Nurse and Toronto with Matthews/Marner/Reilly. 

After you pick them , then you assemble the best team behind them to give them the best chance to win.

I think we have the advantage of having a goalie like Demko at a reasonable cap hit. 

The rest of the roster should be easier to assemble and a lot cheaper. Chicago did this in their hay day and they easily replaced the support players as some of them moved on.

I like how this new management realize you can't pay players because they are popular. The team comes first. If the cost is too high, then you move them. The players no longer run this team! Finally! 

Either players follow the game plan or they go, this has been needed for so long. 

I also like how they are following a game plan regarding a players age in order to give the core the longest possible window of opportunity to succeed.

[Dr. Crossbar]

1 hour ago, ilduce39 said:

Not sure if you ever caught it, but “Hobo or Phobo” was one of my favourite “Littlest Hobo” inspired bits of all time on TSN 1040.  
 

Botch, Rintoul and DeBron.  Lots of fun.

Have not heard that. That sounds fun!