Who here is actually happy with the Hronek trade?

[Baggins]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

Well in case you have missed it the last 100 times or so that people have told you.

 

Miller isn’t on a team friendly deal two months from now.  He is getting paid market rates for his current production.  Unfortunately, the likelihood of him producing at those same rates when he is 37 are pretty astronomical.  Age related decline wasn’t factored into that contract.  He is almost certainly going to become one of those dead weight contracts you think it is easy to shed.  It could happen anywhere from next season to 3-4 seasons from now, but the odds are highly stacked against us contract aging well.

 

Those contracts you suggested are impossible to move without further eroding our future. 

Nonesense. Were Miller three years younger his contract would have been 11m. Taveres got 11m 5 years ago with three 80+ point seasons. And that was with the team he dreamed about playing for since childhood. Many said he took a million less than he could have gotten from other teams at the time. Miller's age was factored in because he's currently worth far more than 8m. 

[Baggins]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

Eh, call it what you will, some of them have def been lousy. Some of them turn out though too, Klimovich looked great this season and Hoglander could be an NHL'er yet. And then there's Demko of course. 

 

The higher you pick the better the odds, the odds may not be as high as first round picks but there are plenty of quality NHL'ers around the league who've been picked in the second round. I've seen folks covet several players from around the league who were drafted in the second round for years. 

 

Gotta use the pick in order to have a chance at hitting. 

Or you can use a pick for a relative sure thing to improve now. Statistically most second rounders don't make. And the majority of those that do take several years to get to where they need to be. That doesn't mean never take the swing, but it does mean don't depend entirely on it when other options present themselves.

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

3 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

Happy with it, it partially addressed one of our biggest areas of weakness.

 

The draft is a crap shoot.

 

As somebody who is an absolute draft lover, I will be the first to admit that it is indeed a crapshoot. 

[Warhippy]

18 minutes ago, Phat Fingers said:

We have the best RHD in the club since Bieksa left

 

Doesn't he need to maybe play more than say 4 games before that statement is made?

 

Just you know...throwing it out there

[Baggins]

6 hours ago, Odd. said:

As many of you might know, I am NOT pleased with the Hronek trade. Our team is nowhere near competitive

I'm thrilled with the Hronek trade. We'll never be competitve if we don't actively use every option available to improve the team. Stars like Petey, Hughes and Demko will eventually ask to be moved if the team does little to nothing to improve.

 

We've been crying for a legit top 4 RHD for years. We finally get one that's only 25 and now there's crying about getting him. But he's going to cost us money... well duh! Do you think Petey and Hughes won't cost us money? 

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I can’t find something to link right now, but I’ve seen it suggested that Garland, for example, could have been traded for a 3rd round pick before the last TDL but the Canucks weren’t willing to come down that far. This makes some sense, since when you go back to the previous deadline (2022), you have people like Friedman reporting the Canucks were asking for a first round pick for Garland and Toronto media people talking about the Leafs offering as high as a first plus roster player plus prospect.

 

If the Canucks were slow to adjust their ask, between TDL 2022 and 2023, I could easily see how they might get in their own way on completing a trade that could have shed Garland’s salary and returned a modest asset.

 

Now, we’re at a point where the chatter suggests the Canucks will need to add sweeteners to any significant salary (including Garland) that they want to trade. And fairly significant media people are pushing this same narrative and lending credibility to the idea that Vancouver will now need to spend assets to dump any cap.

That definitely seems to be the consensus nowadays in regards to dumping cap. We might be able to give away say.. Beauvillier for free as he's a player with one year remaining, but I don't expect teams are going to be doing us any favours with us being backed into a corner capwise.

 

Wouldn't be shocked if we held out for too much, wouldn't be the first management group to misread the market or stubbornly hold on to players. 

 

1 hour ago, stawns said:

I think they have greater value as currency for already established players.  

And that's fine, we don't usually agree on picks. 

 

11 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Or you can use a pick for a relative sure thing to improve now. Statistically most second rounders don't make. And the majority of those that do take several years to get to where they need to be. That doesn't mean never take the swing, but it does mean don't depend entirely on it when other options present themselves.

And if that's your stance, great, I'd prefer to use picks to draft players. 

[Baggins]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

And if that's your stance, great, I'd prefer to use picks to draft players. 

I prefer to improve by any and all means rather simply sitting back and crossing my fingers hoping on magic beans.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Baggins said:

I'm thrilled with the Hronek trade. We'll never be competitve if we don't actively use every option available to improve the team. Stars like Petey, Hughes and Demko will eventually ask to be moved if the team does little to nothing to improve.

 

We've been crying for a legit top 4 RHD for years. We finally get one that's only 25 and now there's crying about getting him. But he's going to cost us money... well duh! Do you think Petey and Hughes won't cost us money? 

Yup. The majority of players on Cup winning teams were either signed through free agency or acquired by trade. The Tampa team that recently won two Cups only drafted Hedman on their D. The rest were UFA signings or traded for. Colorado’s recent Cup winner was a team with a small number of drafted players. Smart trades and good UFA signings are absolutely an important part to building a Cup winner. 

[Warhippy]

I again need to seriously emphasize this.

 

Does Hronek NOT have to play like a full season for us to be considered a top 4 D?

 

Look at the issues with the "upper body"

 

That is all the same shoulder. Labelling him as the best RHD since Bieksa or a top 4 D because he managed to put up more than 35 points for the first time in his career is a bit insane and seriously jumping the gun.  one could just as easuly label it as Yzerman won a trade selling damaged goods.  neither is true at this stage.  Just....chill on the expectations I guess

 

I remember the Myers love when he was signed.  I remember VERY well how important it was for people to believe we had a true minute munching top 4 D.

 

How'd that work out?

 

Maybe just temper those expectations kids.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Warhippy

[Coconuts]

5 minutes ago, Baggins said:

I prefer to improve by any and all means rather simply sitting back and crossing my fingers hoping on magic beans.

Not gonna lie, I didn't read your entire response at first. 

 

Yes, there's a time and place for moving picks, but my preference is to not. 

 

I take issue with the Canucks historical usage of their second round picks over the past decade, and their frittering away picks in general. 

 

Some folks write them off as "magic beans" but most players enter the league via the draft. Seem to be plenty of folks who'd minimize the value of using their own picks. But then again, we've watched the last couple management groups repeatedly try to take shortcuts so I'm not surprised. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Coconuts

[Dr. Crossbar]

Hronek is a Top 4 Dman! This is true. 

[Ted Lasso]

36 minutes ago, stawns said:

I expect he'll be a guy who will be a bit unpredictable, but who plays decently well in RT's system and logs pretty big mins.  

 

As with most dmen, he's only as good (defensively) as the fwds who play their own defensive role well.

Fair, and safe, expectation. 
 

I’m wondering if he has a contract year bump

[Dr. Crossbar]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

The blanket got wetter as time wore on…

Especially in this thread! 

[Ghostsof1915]

1) Let's see if he's healthy to start the season.

2) Let's see how he does at least midway through the season. 

3) Why are we panicking about what if's, and things that haven't happened yet?

 

 

[mordekai]

2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

So Woo is finally going to put it altogether after a few seasons? 

 

Don't see Johansson making much of an impact. 

 

why not? you make it sound as if a kid cant take longer to develop. And this past year he actually had legitimate coaching.

 

your opinion of Johansson based on the few AHL playoff games he played this year? or his season at the SHL?

 

 

[Wanless]

14 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I again need to seriously emphasize this.

 

Does Hronek NOT have to play like a full season for us to be considered a top 4 D?

 

Look at the issues with the "upper body"

 

That is all the same shoulder.  All of it.  Labelling him as the best RHD since Bieksa or a top 4 D because he managed to put up more than 35 points for the first time in his career is a bit insane and seriously jumping the gun.

 

I remember the Myers love when he was signed.  I remember VERY well how important it was for people to believe we had a true minute monhcing top 4 D.

 

How'd that work out?

 

Maybe just temper those expectations kids.

This to me just tells me it was handled poorly

 

Ive separated my shoulder sprained ankles and all kinds of things. It all healed just fine, but I had half a year off sports with all my injuries

 

soft tissue injuries are weird. They can feel fine while movements are under control but once there is unexpected stress they really show you that it takes quite some time to rehab them back to health

 

my separated should was 8 months before I didnt have unexpected pain. However i could use it in under a week with mild pain and sudden sharp pain from over stressing

 

my ankle took 10 months before I was fully confident that it was better but i could walk after a week in crutches

 

When you look at the dates it tells me that he did feel fine but the reality is that once there was stress on the tissue there was a setback

[Baggins]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yup. The majority of players on Cup winning teams were either signed through free agency or acquired by trade. The Tampa team that recently won two Cups only drafted Hedman on their D. The rest were UFA signings or traded for. Colorado’s recent Cup winner was a team with a small number of drafted players. Smart trades and good UFA signings are absolutely an important part to building a Cup winner. 

Key players are always a mix. Just as there is always high end players drafted. One commonality among teams winning the cup is building a team around their stars. The younger your top players are when built around means a bigger window to actually win. If your good at building you can even get multiple windows from drafted stars. But another factor in extending a window is scoring draft hits to insert youngblood on cheap deals. That's where Gillis failed. It took too long to build around the WCE and it took too long to build around the Sedins. 

 

Draft picks have value. But sometimes the value is in trading them, and eliminating the wait, to build around your stars. Stars don't win cups on their own and it takes too long to draft 24 NHL players yourself that would actually make a cup contender.

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Key players are always a mix. Just as there is always high end players drafted. One commonality among teams winning the cup is building a team around their stars. The younger your top players are when built around means a bigger window to actually win. If your good at building you can even get multiple windows from drafted stars. But another factor in extending a window is scoring draft hits to insert youngblood on cheap deals. That's where Gillis failed. It took too long to build around the WCE and it took too long to build around the Sedins. 

 

Draft picks have value. But sometimes the value is in trading them, and eliminating the wait, to build around your stars. Stars don't win cups on their own and it takes too long to draft 24 NHL players yourself that would actually make a cup contender.

And we have an excellent core with elite young players. We needed a high end right shot D. Allvin was able to turn Bo into a 25 year old, high end right shot D. It’s a very smart move to building a winner. 

[eeeeergh]

30 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yup. The majority of players on Cup winning teams were either signed through free agency or acquired by trade. The Tampa team that recently won two Cups only drafted Hedman on their D. The rest were UFA signings or traded for. Colorado’s recent Cup winner was a team with a small number of drafted players. Smart trades and good UFA signings are absolutely an important part to building a Cup winner. 

exactly right

 

i honestly dont know why people dont give alvin and the chipmunks more credit. They got a 40 goal scorer for free, signed him to a contract that a 25 goal scorer would ask for, and they managed to sell the absolute pico top on Horvat, convinced the world he was a 1C, and got a top-4 RHD + a top center prospect + a good 2nd line winger for him. 

 

theyre absolutely killing the game right now. 

 

they also didnt let anyone valuable walk to free agency, managed to get picks for schenn, motte, lazar, etc etc. 

 

tip top job to the hairless compadres. 

 

[canuckwings]

I've probably made multiple posts about my feelings on the trade lol. I'm probably a minority cause most ppl here seem to support the trade or want to wait and see. For me I still don't like the trade and my opinion stands regardless of how Hronek performs next year. It's the timing and general asset management approach that I hate. I understand they have to pay for value and Hronek is worth a first rounder. I would hate this less if they didn't give up the second round pick this year. 

 

The team is just simply not in a position to give up that many picks. I don't recall Canucks finding any gem outside of first round in the last decade other than Demko, and he's a goalie, a position teams don't generally draft in the first round anyway.

 

Just because the team hasn't drafted well doesn't mean we should undervalue the picks and be okay with trading those picks away...