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[Discussion] Jordan Staal

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HorvatToBaertschi

By HorvatToBaertschi
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HorvatToBaertschi Canucks Regular

HorvatToBaertschi

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After the news that the Hurricanes and Jordan Staal's camp aren't finding common ground in contract negotiations, I was wondering what all of you thought about Jordan Staal as our potential 3C, and how much it would cost to get him from free agency (in the not-so-likely event that he does enter free agency)?

 

34 years old coming off a 17g, 17 assist campaign, with a very strong 55.5% FO%, and 59% DZS.

 

I'd like to think that a 3 year 4 million deal would get it done, but I honestly have no idea what it would take. Thoughts?

 

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/jordan-staal-carolina-hurricanes-at-an-impasse-in-contract-talks-1.1976648

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DSVII Canucks Regular

DSVII

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Honestly wouldn't bother. Not 

our price or age range, let another team hold the bag.

 

Shades  of Beagle

 

[ The 32-year-old center had 22 points (seven goals, 15 assists) in 79 games with the Washington Capitals last season and ranked first on the Capitals with a 58.5 face-off win percent ]

Edited by DSVII
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NewbieCanuckFan Canucks All-Star

NewbieCanuckFan

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1 minute ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

At least he didn't pull the religion card during their inclusion night, unlike his two bros.  

 

But he's probably going to cost 

 

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More Than You Can Afford Pal Ferrari GIF - More Than You Can ...

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I wouldn't be so quick to give him cover.  The Canes chose not to participate in the event so it took that matter out of his hands.  Now whether they Canes did this in order to keep their Captain happy with Jebus, who's to say.

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Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Canucks First-Line

Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw

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25 minutes ago, DSVII said:

Honestly wouldn't bother. Not 

our price or age range, let another team hold the bag.

 

Shades  of Beagle

 

[ The 32-year-old center had 22 points (seven goals, 15 assists) in 79 games with the Washington Capitals last season and ranked first on the Capitals with a 58.5 face-off win percent ]

I can't believe you're trying to compare current Jordan Staal to Canucks Jay Beagle.  The guy was dark horse candidate for the Selke trophy this year.  When the voting list comes out, I fully expect him to have earned a couple fifth place votes.  Incidentally, Beagle did get a few Selke votes back in 16-17, when he truly was a great defensive forward.  But Staal is still an amazing defensive forward today.

 

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Phil_314 Canucks Star

Phil_314

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He's barely slowed down on offense and is probably still as good as ever on defense.  I doubt he signs for much less (if any lesser) than the $6 million AAV.
Agreed with others too that we should give other guys a chance, e.g. I hope we give Raty a long look or can trade a wing for a 3rd line C. 

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DSVII Canucks Regular

DSVII

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2 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

I can't believe you're trying to compare current Jordan Staal to Canucks Jay Beagle.  The guy was dark horse candidate for the Selke trophy this year.  When the voting list comes out, I fully expect him to have earned a couple fifth place votes.  Incidentally, Beagle did get a few Selke votes back in 16-17, when he truly was a great defensive forward.  But Staal is still an amazing defensive forward today.

 

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Not a direct player to player comparison. But the thought process is eerily similar. Consider the projection of where you think a 35 year old centre is gonna look like even 1 year into a 4 year deal.

 

It's a high risk low reward gamble we should not make IMO.

 

Even your comparison is between Beagle 2-3 years into his deal with us vs Staal today.  I'd like to see Beagles chart moved back three years for an apples to apples match. And even then Staal is older. I have no interest hoping he plays the same quality when he's 38 years old as your deal time horizon suggests

 

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Elias Pettersson Canucks All-Star

Elias Pettersson

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3 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

I can't believe you're trying to compare current Jordan Staal to Canucks Jay Beagle.  The guy was dark horse candidate for the Selke trophy this year.  When the voting list comes out, I fully expect him to have earned a couple fifth place votes.  Incidentally, Beagle did get a few Selke votes back in 16-17, when he truly was a great defensive forward.  But Staal is still an amazing defensive forward today.

 

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Beagle came to Vancouver when he was 33 not 35.  Also, he was injured I believe in his first or 2nd game and missed over 2 months of his first season here.  I believe it was a hand injury and he was never the same afterwards.

 

Staal will be 35.  I certainly wouldn't be giving anywhere close to what he's making now, which is probably what he wants...

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Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw

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1 hour ago, DSVII said:

Not a direct player to player comparison. But the thought process is eerily similar. Consider the projection of where you think a 35 year old centre is gonna look like even 1 year into a 4 year deal.

 

It's a high risk low reward gamble we should not make IMO.

 

Even your comparison is between Beagle 2-3 years into his deal with us vs Staal today.  I'd like to see Beagles chart moved back three years for an apples to apples match. And even then Staal is older. I have no interest hoping he plays the same quality when he's 38 years old as your deal time horizon suggests

 

54 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Beagle came to Vancouver when he was 33 not 35.  Also, he was injured I believe in his first or 2nd game and missed over 2 months of his first season here.  I believe it was a hand injury and he was never the same afterwards.

 

Staal will be 35.  I certainly wouldn't be giving anywhere close to what he's making now, which is probably what he wants...

To clarify: he is absolutely not the right fit for this team.  We have a little cap space and it's unwise to burn it all on a 3C.  We're also not a super-competitive team that's going to invite veterans on cheap contracts.  If Staal wants a cup maybe he can join his brothers in Florida.

 

But contract price aside, I see no reason why he wouldn't be a solid player for years to come.  What do I think Staal will look like a year or two from now?  Pretty much the same.  He's always been a high-end middle six talent that's kept himself relevant for years on end.

 

Look at the complete list of 37+ skaters left in the league.  Ovechkin, Bergeron, Perry, Burns, Carter, Stastny, Suter, Goligoski, Bellmare, Parise, Pavelski, E. Staal, and Giordano.  Some players like Bergy, Ovie, Pavelski & Burnzie are still elite-level talents, while the rest of them have all aged really gracefully.  Again - I'm not saying Jordan Staal would be the right fit for us, but if he did sign something like a $4M x 3/4 years, I have zero doubt he would live up to his contract.  I just think we're a bit jaded here because our previous veteran contracts led to us buying out OEL.

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DSVII Canucks Regular

DSVII

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15 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

 

To clarify: he is absolutely not the right fit for this team.  We have a little cap space and it's unwise to burn it all on a 3C.  We're also not a super-competitive team that's going to invite veterans on cheap contracts.  If Staal wants a cup maybe he can join his brothers in Florida.

 

But contract price aside, I see no reason why he wouldn't be a solid player for years to come.  What do I think Staal will look like a year or two from now?  Pretty much the same.  He's always been a high-end middle six talent that's kept himself relevant for years on end.

 

Look at the complete list of 37+ skaters left in the league.  Ovechkin, Bergeron, Perry, Burns, Carter, Stastny, Suter, Goligoski, Bellmare, Parise, Pavelski, E. Staal, and Giordano.  Some players like Bergy, Ovie, Pavelski & Burnzie are still elite-level talents, while the rest of them have all aged really gracefully.  Again - I'm not saying Jordan Staal would be the right fit for us, but if he did sign something like a $4M x 3/4 years, I have zero doubt he would live up to his contract.  I just think we're a bit jaded here because our previous veteran contracts led to us buying out OEL.

I wouldn't say you're necessarily wrong, i would love a Pavelski style outcome, but we already have one of those bets in JT Miller, I'm wary of the team making another one.

 

It's also survivorship bias,  for each of those names you listed there are perhaps hundreds more players that have fallen off a cliff when they're in their mid 30s. Staal would be battling against the odds here, and i acknowledge it is totally possible he continues playing at a high level. From a team construction standpoint, I'm just not willing to pay the price on a player who has to hit a ~95th percentile outcome to break even on his contract value at 4M.

 

With the 4.7M dead cap coming from  OEL  and Peteys extension, we need to make efficient, cheaper high reward signings and Staal doesn't fit that mold to me.

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Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Canucks First-Line

Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw

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36 minutes ago, DSVII said:

I wouldn't say you're necessarily wrong, i would love a Pavelski style outcome, but we already have one of those bets in JT Miller, I'm wary of the team making another one.

 

It's also survivorship bias,  for each of those names you listed there are perhaps hundreds more players that have fallen off a cliff when they're in their mid 30s. Staal would be battling against the odds here, and i acknowledge it is totally possible he continues playing at a high level. From a team construction standpoint, I'm just not willing to pay the price on a player who has to hit a ~95th percentile outcome to break even on his contract value at 4M.

 

With the 4.7M dead cap coming from  OEL  and Peteys extension, we need to make efficient, cheaper high reward signings and Staal doesn't fit that mold to me.

If you want cheap, low risk/high reward players, sign old guys.  I actually don't think Staal is old enough.  :lol:

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wildcam Canucks Third-Line

wildcam

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6 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

only way i would be interested in staal is if we can move a boeser or garland before july 1st.. likely won't happen so easy pass he'll prolly look for a short term but upwards of 6mil

I agree pass and try and trade for # 3 C-- Don't want 3rd line C making over 2.5 million...

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