[GDT] ‘Tis the Dog Days of Summer, Are we Thinging Before Training Camp?

[KirkSave]

On 6/27/2023 at 11:19 AM, NUCKER67 said:

Nothing wrong with Cole if he's cheap.  6'1" 225, can play the physical game, likely dependable partner for Hronek.

 

Looking at his last 4 teams:

 

COL +21

TB  +21

MIN  +15

TB  +13

 

Good defensively

 

Doubt his plus/minus would be anywhere close to this on Van, unless the team really buys into Coach T's structure. All 4 previous teams have a strong internal culture that demands attention to detail and high compete.

[eeeeergh]

Just now, KirkSave said:

Doubt his plus/minus would be anywhere close to this on Van, unless the team really buys into Coach T's structure. All 4 previous teams have a strong internal culture that demands attention to detail and high compete.

Hes been a #1 penalty killer for a long time though, you dont get to own the penalty kill unless youre really excellent defensively

[BigTramFan]

I doubt we can thing Myers until we pay him his thingy on the whatchamacallit of September.

[Citizen Erased]

1 hour ago, Chickenspear said:

Website crashed on me, thought we thung our thing for a moment.

Me too!

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, BertaNuck said:

Myers is supposed to be the superior dman for others to pay with 

"Superior"?

 

They're all just players with skill sets, tools, weaknesses and flaws.

 

Every D out there will perform better, with a complementary partner. Myers is no different. He's never had a solid defensive guy to play with here... Other than maybe Edler in his twilight.

 

Is Hughes a great D even playing with a 3rd pair D in Luke Schenn? Could he be even better if he had a Pesce or similar as a partner? 

Edited June 30, 2023 by aGENT

[coryberg]

1 hour ago, KirkSave said:

Doubt his plus/minus would be anywhere close to this on Van, unless the team really buys into Coach T's structure. All 4 previous teams have a strong internal culture that demands attention to detail and high compete.

Luke schenn was a +15 and +9 on this team the past few seasons. Myers was +15 a few years back and Bear was +6 last season. Not hard to believe a very good defensive defenceman could pull a +13 or more.

[KirkSave]

27 minutes ago, coryberg said:

Luke schenn was a +15 and +9 on this team the past few seasons. Myers was +15 a few years back and Bear was +6 last season. Not hard to believe a very good defensive defenceman could pull a +13 or more.

If he's such a great defender, why has he been bouncing around the league on 1 year deals the past few seasons? He is aging out of the league. I for one hope we pass on him, unless it's for another 1 year deal. Acquiring his services would not push the needle IMO. Rather bring back Schenn on a 1- year deal or better yet hand out a multi-year deal to a D like Soucy. 28 years old, large and in charge!

[coryberg]

11 minutes ago, KirkSave said:

If he's such a great defender, why has he been bouncing around the league on 1 year deals the past few seasons? He is aging out of the league. I for one hope we pass on him, unless it's for another 1 year deal. Acquiring his services would not push the needle IMO. Rather bring back Schenn on a 1- year deal or better yet hand out a multi-year deal to a D like Soucy. 28 years old, large and in charge!

He was a UFA and picked teams that he had a good shot at the Cup with... those very good teams wanted him and paid him well. The guy is a career top 4 dman who is 34 years old and will be looking at a 2 year deal at a decent rate.

 

Soucy is a career 3rd pairing dman who will be 29 and looking for 2nd pair money at longer term. Not excited about that contract.

 

I'm with you on the Schenn front though would love to have him back next year.

[wai_lai416]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

"Superior"?

 

They're all just players with skill sets, tools, weaknesses and flaws.

 

Every D out there will perform better, with a complementary partner. Myers is no different. He's never had a solid defensive guy to play with here... Other than maybe Edler in his twilight.

 

Is Hughes a great D even playing with a 3rd pair D in Luke Schenn? Could he be even better if he had a Pesce or similar as a partner? 

the issue with vancouver or was with vancouver was they went for the big name player and never thought about compatibility/style and just throws them together and hope they get result. with Hughes they just throw whatever for partner.. but he's most effective playing with Tanev and Schenn the stay at home defensive defenceman because it gives him the freedom to jump up in offence skate around with the puck etc and not have to worry as much on defence coz he knows there's someone there to back him up..

OEL is essentially a slower/older version of hughes that needs like a tanev or schenn to be effective.. in his time in vancouver his greatest success was when hughes was injured and he played hughes role along side with schenn.. most of the time he's playing with myer whos really incompatible in terms of playstyle.. 2 incompatible playstyle players playing together and the result? 2 really bad defenceman kinda like hughes in his soph season.. ppl say they OEL was decent with Myers last year.. i didn't think that way i just thought the goalie bailed them out more often than not. we need to look at a defenceman's playstyle and find a partner for them that'll enable them.. rather than just oh this guy stats was pretty good and he's good defensively and then just sign that guy and hope it works out imo.

[KirkSave]

2 hours ago, coryberg said:

He was a UFA and picked teams that he had a good shot at the Cup with... those very good teams wanted him and paid him well. The guy is a career top 4 dman who is 34 years old and will be looking at a 2 year deal at a decent rate.

 

Soucy is a career 3rd pairing dman who will be 29 and looking for 2nd pair money at longer term. Not excited about that contract.

 

I'm with you on the Schenn front though would love to have him back next year.

We need all the help we can get back there eh- lol

[DrJockitch]

For all the good thing this management group has done we are a fair way into the offseason and need to find half a defensive core, a third line centre and desperately need some size on the wing with every position there filled.  

We also desperately need some penalty killers.

Just feels like Benning all over again filling the bottom part of the lineup through the UFA Market because the NHL assets you have to move are very undesirable.  As usual this leads to overpaying for success that players had for other teams and handicaps a cap situation that is already handicapped by the OEL buyout.

We have done a better job than Benning with the deals we found last year but just wish we would stop Benning our way into these situations.

[aGENT]

6 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

the issue with vancouver or was with vancouver was they went for the big name player and never thought about compatibility/style and just throws them together and hope they get result. with Hughes they just throw whatever for partner.. but he's most effective playing with Tanev and Schenn the stay at home defensive defenceman because it gives him the freedom to jump up in offence skate around with the puck etc and not have to worry as much on defence coz he knows there's someone there to back him up..

OEL is essentially a slower/older version of hughes that needs like a tanev or schenn to be effective.. in his time in vancouver his greatest success was when hughes was injured and he played hughes role along side with schenn.. most of the time he's playing with myer whos really incompatible in terms of playstyle.. 2 incompatible playstyle players playing together and the result? 2 really bad defenceman kinda like hughes in his soph season.. ppl say they OEL was decent with Myers last year.. i didn't think that way i just thought the goalie bailed them out more often than not. we need to look at a defenceman's playstyle and find a partner for them that'll enable them.. rather than just oh this guy stats was pretty good and he's good defensively and then just sign that guy and hope it works out imo.

Yup, actually building a complementary group at D was a major blind spot of Benning's. Goes all the way back to Gudbranson.

[5nothincanucksohno]

So does Schenn and Cole on two year deals in the $2 - $2.5M range make sense? 

 

QH Schenn

Cole Hronek

#6-9 Myers

 

Could play QH and Hronek together at times and depending on how some of the depth d play, could move Cole down with Myers. Not a world beating D core but capable, affordable and gives the team options. 

[Warhippy]

Once again.  I can not stress enough.

 

The canucks do not do things during the draft.  Since inception, they have done 4 deals of note.  They rarely trade up or down on either day of the draft.  This is for the 50 ish years of club history

 

Draft day history:

 

OEL deal prior to the covid virtual draft

Miller deal day 2

Horvat deal on the floor

Sedin magic on the floor

[Seannnp]

On 6/29/2023 at 9:52 AM, GhostsOf1994 said:

Watch Myers be flipped for Erik Karlsson as he is the hold up on waiving his NMC

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure I think I can make that work. Hold up, let me cook: 

 

To CHI

3rd round pick (from SJ)

3rd round pick (from Van)

Garland 

 

To SJ

Myers

 

To VAN

Karlsson retained 1m by CHI and 5.50 by SJ (5m cap hit) 

 

 

Chicago helps retain $750k on Karlsson and receives two 3rds and Garland who can help get them to the cap floor and fill out the roster

San Jose gets out from half the Karlsson contract retaining 5.50m, receives a replacement that could be moved at the deadline or let his contract expire 

Vancouver gets Karlsson at 5m per for 3 more seasons to anchor our 2nd pair whilst Hronek plays top pair with Hughes. We shed 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Seannnp

[GhostsOf1994]

1 minute ago, Seannnp said:

Sure I think I can make that work: 

 

To CHI

3rd round pick (from SJ)

3rd round pick (from Van)

Garland 

 

To SJ

Myers

 

 

 

To VAN

Karlsson retained 1m by CHI and 5.50 by SJ (5m cap hit) 

 

 

Chicago helps retain $750k on Karlsson and receives two 3rds and Garland who can help get them to the cap floor and fill out the roster

San Jose gets out from half the Karlsson contract retaining 5.50m, receives a replacement that could be moved at the deadline or let his contract expire 

Vancouver gets Karlsson at 5m per for 3 more seasons to anchor our 2nd pair whilst Hronek plays top pair with Hughes 

 

Well done!

 

my interest in a silky trade as shifted, now I want Ristolainen & Sanheim for Beauvillier & Myers

[GhostsOf1994]

1 minute ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

A player can only have 50% of their salary cap hit retained in total.  This goes over that limit.

3 team trade, sjs retain on and trade EK Chicago, Chicago retains some more and trades EK to Van.

Edited June 30, 2023 by GhostsOf1994

[Seannnp]

12 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

A player can only have 50% of their salary cap hit retained in total.  This goes over that limit.

I thought it was 1 team could only retain 50% max. Not entirely sure if two teams can retain more combined but i was simply thrown sh*t at the wall to see what stuck lol

[ilduce39]

With so much movement out there I’m actually kind of glad Allvin is playing this low and slow.  
 

Still some serious opportunity to make a play.

[Seannnp]

Just now, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Nope, it's 50% total for the limit in terms of retention of the player's salary, no matter split between two teams or by the original team.  Max retention for Karlsson's contract would be $5.75mil.

amend that proposal then to 5m retained by SJ and 750k by CHI. Little bit easier to swallow for SJ, cap hit increases for use by 750k. Karlsson at 5.75 is still a steal.