Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[aGENT]

20 minutes ago, Mr.53 said:

Like it or not, Jake is looking like he was a bad pick. I'm not going to come in here and pretend, I was a big Jake Virtanen supporter. I believed that he could have been an Evander Kane type of player without the off ice issues. Serious skill is good, but you also need impact powerforwards on your team. Maybe Jake will turn it around, and I think/hope he will, but as it stands right now, he's looking more like a maybe when it comes to becoming a top 6 forward and other guys like Ehlers and Nylander are looking more like sure things and on their way to becoming all star superstars. 

 

Imagine a Ehlers - Horvat - Boeser line... That's a real top 6 line that can do damage. But anyway. If I had to rerank/redraft Jakes draft today.

 

1. Aaron Ekblad (An absolute two-way beast since day 1. He may be struggling, but number 1 Defensemen don't grow on trees)
2. Leon Draisaitl (Honestly the closest to making a case for number 1. If not for McDavid, he'd be the number 1 center)
3. Sam Reinhart (Beast player and coming along well. Plays well with different guys. Should be a top scorer soon.)
4. Nik Ehlers (Incredibly speed, skill, and offensive ability. One of, if not the best pure offensive talent)
5. David Pasternak (Huge sleeper making a case to be a top 5 pick. Great two-way and offensive skill)
6. Dylan Larkin (Also a huge sleeper. Struggling a bit this season, but has shown incredible two-way ability)
7. Willie Nylander (Similar to Ehlers in being an incredible offensive talent. Not as good as Ehlers but close.)
8. Sam Bennett (Good two-way player that is still waiting to breakout. Shows flashes of greatness)
9. Nick Ritchie (Might deserve to be lower, but he's showing he can play on the NHL level and is still an irreplaceable talent, adding value)
10. Robby Fabbri (Great offensive player who has risen. He is small and fragile, as well as not the best defender, but he's not bad either.)
11. Brandon Perlini (Big body who has honestly shocked me with how well he's done. We'll see if he continues.)
12. Kasperi Kapenen (Great talent who has shown he has mastered the AHL. He will move up soon to see if he can put it together.)
13. Jake Virtanen (Still an incredible raw talent, but has taken major steps back in putting the overall package together.)
14. Haydn Fleury (Still a good defensive prospect, but not a prospect that stands out ahead of other defensemen.)
15. Michael Dal Colle (Major dissapointment so a far on every level. Also doesn't have the raw strength and speed of a Virtanen to fall back on)

 

That's pretty bad if Jake isn't even top 10 in his draft class right now and trending downwards. The good news however, is that it's not like he's a different player. He's still the same Jake Virtanen with the incredible speed, strength, size, and raw shot power that we drafted. The problem is he's struggling to adapt to the next level. This is a huge problem, as that is truly the biggest leap to the next level. But still, he has all the tools to be a successful NHL player, he's just going to take a little more extra time to get there. The kid scored 13 points in 55 games as a 19 year old in the NHL. That's actually not bad for a 19 year old powerforward coming into the league. 

 

Jake has just lost his place a little bit. He has to get his mind right, and start working overtime. He needs to work 24/7 this summer on 3 things. 

 

1. His shot: It's already powerful, and incredibly strong. He just needs to work on accuracy. Do the Kesler method. 100 shots a day minimum, no excuses. Even on vacation. It will get accurate. Once the shot is down, he can work with Travis Green next season, for at least the beginning part, on positioning and how to get open. Jake will never be a high profile passer, but he has the ability to be a high profile finisher. A guy you hand the puck to, to go to the net and finish the play. He has the speed to be able to get open, but right now focus on the shot.
2. Conditioning: One of the things people didn't really consider when he was drafted was his conditioning. Yes he can be a human wrecking ball and play what I like to call as defensive end hockey, pushing the pace and smashing into anyone who doesn't get the puck off fast, but that takes a toll. That is exhausting. And the thing that Jake didn't realize is on the NHL level, everyone, even the 4th line grinders, have to be in tip top shape. Not only just for a single games purpose, but to get through a whole season with some consistency. Playing 3 or 4 games a week on an NHL level is not easy. It's exactly why a lot of rookies come into the league a little bit lighter than their preferred weight. get used to the league, the system, and the demand on your body night in and night out, then start gradually putting on the lean muscle you can handle. Hit the gym Jake. Hit the gym.
3. His defensive game: Jake has been blessed with incredible speed, strength, as well as other skills. He has all the tools to be a two-way force in the league. What he needs to worry about is being able to be a reliable and punishing defender. That is what will get him a ticket to the NHL. Don't focus on being a high profile scorer yet, focus on being a guy that other players day, "damn..." when they have to lineup against you. Once he get's that down he will get bottom 6 minutes, and from there he can start to re-adapt his game to the NHL level. Ask Bo. The defensive game is the hardest part to get down. Once you can handle that, you can get reliable minutes on the NHL level. Once you start getting trusted to play reliable minutes, the offense starts to come. Again, Jake has all the tools to be a homerun pick and type of player, but he's going to take time.

Out of +'s.

 

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

36 minutes ago, Mr.53 said:

Like it or not, Jake is looking like he was a bad pick. I'm not going to come in here and pretend, I was a big Jake Virtanen supporter. I believed that he could have been an Evander Kane type of player without the off ice issues. Serious skill is good, but you also need impact powerforwards on your team. Maybe Jake will turn it around, and I think/hope he will, but as it stands right now, he's looking more like a maybe when it comes to becoming a top 6 forward and other guys like Ehlers and Nylander are looking more like sure things and on their way to becoming all star superstars. 

 

Imagine a Ehlers - Horvat - Boeser line... That's a real top 6 line that can do damage. But anyway. If I had to rerank/redraft Jakes draft today.

 

1. Aaron Ekblad (An absolute two-way beast since day 1. He may be struggling, but number 1 Defensemen don't grow on trees)
2. Leon Draisaitl (Honestly the closest to making a case for number 1. If not for McDavid, he'd be the number 1 center)
3. Sam Reinhart (Beast player and coming along well. Plays well with different guys. Should be a top scorer soon.)
4. Nik Ehlers (Incredibly speed, skill, and offensive ability. One of, if not the best pure offensive talent)
5. David Pasternak (Huge sleeper making a case to be a top 5 pick. Great two-way and offensive skill)
6. Dylan Larkin (Also a huge sleeper. Struggling a bit this season, but has shown incredible two-way ability)
7. Willie Nylander (Similar to Ehlers in being an incredible offensive talent. Not as good as Ehlers but close.)
8. Sam Bennett (Good two-way player that is still waiting to breakout. Shows flashes of greatness)
9. Nick Ritchie (Might deserve to be lower, but he's showing he can play on the NHL level and is still an irreplaceable talent, adding value)
10. Robby Fabbri (Great offensive player who has risen. He is small and fragile, as well as not the best defender, but he's not bad either.)
11. Brandon Perlini (Big body who has honestly shocked me with how well he's done. We'll see if he continues.)
12. Kasperi Kapenen (Great talent who has shown he has mastered the AHL. He will move up soon to see if he can put it together.)
13. Jake Virtanen (Still an incredible raw talent, but has taken major steps back in putting the overall package together.)
14. Haydn Fleury (Still a good defensive prospect, but not a prospect that stands out ahead of other defensemen.)
15. Michael Dal Colle (Major dissapointment so a far on every level. Also doesn't have the raw strength and speed of a Virtanen to fall back on)

Jake isn't in the top 15 of his draft class You forgot Arvidsson, Tryamkin, Demko, Point, Fiala and possibly Sanhiem, Montour, Dvorak, and Tuch are currently ahead of him.  In 5 years Jake might be back in the top 10, but currently he would be lucky to be top 20

[Alflives]

32 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Jake isn't in the top 15 of his draft class You forgot Arvidsson, Tryamkin, Demko, Point, Fiala and possibly Sanhiem, Montour, Dvorak, and Tuch are currently ahead of him.  In 5 years Jake might be back in the top 10, but currently he would be lucky to be top 20

In five years Jake might not be playing hockey.  Anyone, from that draft (no matter which pro league they are in) who is playing would be considered a better pick than Jake.

[singing chef]

12 hours ago, knucklehead91 said:

Can everyone stfu about Virtanen and what pick we should have taken what we "missed out on" etc. Nothing we can do to change the pick, the kid is young and learning he's playing infront of his home crowd, he's still a frickin kid and he's growing up, let him become a bloody man and become a real professional athlete. Let the cards lay where they fall and see where it goes. We passed on Nichuskin and took Horvat, look how that turned out. He has some growing up to do and it looks like he's starting to get his act together, he's dropped weight and is flying around the ice and seems to be all over the place. Keep this thread to updates, go argue elsewhere. If you are a bloody fan then be a fan and show your bloody support for the kid and stop criticizing him. This city along with Montreal and Toronto ruin players confidence and has a healthy hand in stinting development by being so overly critical. Bring positivity. 

Good post.  Anyone who watched "Hockey Central at Noon" today (Wednesday) and listened to Dean Lombardi, GM of L.A. Kings, would have related to his comments about young draft picks.  Basically said "they are drafted high and are forced into situations where they are expected to produce immediately.  Must not forget they are just kids and still have a lot of growing up to do/life skills to learn, and during this time they are exposed to the temptations a significant amount of cash is suddenly made available to them.  Some make it early but others need a few years to deal with the realization being a NHL player is a real job and they need to actually work at it  -  i.e. work ethic, fitness, proper diet, commitment to the job."

 

He used the example of Jeff Carter, then and now, and how he was a kid with bad "life habits" in Phil & Columbus but finally "got it" when he came to L.A.  Now he is a "stallion" of fitness and is producing.

 

So, give Jake the opportunity to grow up and realize he needs to work at his profession.  He may succeed, he may not, but he's still just a kid. Give him a chance.

 

Cheers.

[guntrix]

2 hours ago, Hutton Wink said:

Sorry to burst your big-headed ego bubble, but it likely takes a whole lot more than an embittered keyboard warrior spamming endlessly about Jake being a chump to upset him.  In fact, he and his friends probably laugh at you and your lil cadre and come here for entertainment.  "All he can do is skate"...

 

2 hours ago, Hutton Wink said:

Would think if you'd paid attention the past couple weeks you'd be getting the message by now from a number of people here about your incessant and repetitive complaining about the same things over and over, but it evidently hasn't sunk in yet as you simply retreated into victim mentality.  Speaking of stale, is 800 polluted pages not enough HateTheJake therapy, or is there simply no ability or desire to add anything new or constructive?

 

2 hours ago, Hutton Wink said:

Maybe this has something to do with it:

 

No worries, unless DeNiro grabs a Snickers he's headed there as well.  Maybe then you can have your Two Minutes Hate4Jake huddled together in private instead of spamming it on every single page here.

Quite ironic that your posts contribute less to the discussion than the posts you're complaining about. 

 

But that's just me. 

 

These concerns are valid and are engaging quite a number of forum posters. And it's not like Jake's play is gonna set the thread alight. 

 

If it helps, I could summarize Jake's play for you after every game. I don't think I'll need more than a sentence. 

[Ronaldoescobar]

1 hour ago, guntrix said:

 

 

Quite ironic that your posts contribute less to the discussion than the posts you're complaining about. 

 

But that's just me. 

 

These concerns are valid and are engaging quite a number of forum posters. And it's not like Jake's play is gonna set the thread alight. 

 

If it helps, I could summarize Jake's play for you after every game. I don't think I'll need more than a sentence. 

Exactly!!

Everyone has an opinion and that is what breeds discussion. Too bad there are a few on here that will either belittle or strawman you if your opinion differs from their own. 

 

With that said, I have been guilty of the same in the past and try to keep an open mind for the most part these days. 

Edited February 8, 2017 by Ronaldoescobar

[J-Dizzle]

2 minutes ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

Exactly!!

Everyone has an opinion and that is what breeds discussion. Too bad there are a few on here that will either belittle or strawman you if your opinion differs from their own. 

 

With that said, I have been guilty of the same in the past and try to keep an open mind for the most part these days. 

Differing opinions are great; incessant whining, belittling and slagging a prospect on the other hand....

[Ronaldoescobar]

8 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

Differing opinions are great; incessant whining, belittling and slagging a prospect on the other hand....

Absolutely! There is validity in a lot of the complaints, specially when there is some backup to support the comments. That said there is also quite a bit of slag on the guy that is totally unfounded. 

[HomeBrew]

1 hour ago, guntrix said:

 

 

Quite ironic that your posts contribute less to the discussion than the posts you're complaining about. 

 

But that's just me. 

 

These concerns are valid and are engaging quite a number of forum posters. And it's not like Jake's play is gonna set the thread alight. 

 

If it helps, I could summarize Jake's play for you after every game. I don't think I'll need more than a sentence. 

I'm sure you could even do us a favour and sum it up in just one word: Sad!

[Phat Fingers]

9 hours ago, The 5th Line said:

You can think that way if you want but like @GoBoGo53 said, Nylander has a much higher upside and you can't compare the two, sure Sven might play a slightly better all around game but it's to close to compare.  Neither of them are super good defensively and the only reason you might give Sven an advantage in that department is because he is 4 years older than WN and with that being said, WN is already a more offensively gifted player despite being 4 years behind in development.  Sven hasn't proven anything in the playoffs yet either so it's not fair to judge them in that regard either.  Taking Virtanen over WN in a re-draft?  It just makes no sense, Jake's numbers are astronomically bad.  1g 2a in his last 21 AHL games, I know mentally he is struggling and eventually he will break out of it but if he can't at least produce a little with his skill set alone then it's just probably not going to work out in the end imo.  I hope I am wrong and we find a player who can pot 20-25 a year and play a hard game especially in the playoffs but it ain't looking good right now

As of now WN has one goal and 7 more assists than Baer.  Both a players that rely on skill, both play alot of left wing.  Very Comparable.  Far more comparable than Jake and WN.  

 

Drafted 3 years apart, the age gap is there, but it's not outrageous They play the same roles and there is not a lot of difference, other than age, between them.  One was had for a 2nd rounder and the other was a top ten pick. 

 

 

I did not say I would take Jake at six in a redraft, but I would not take WN.  Larkin, Pasternak and Ehlers, absolutely, but I do not like Joffery, and will never like Joffery. 

 

What I was getting at was Baer fills the same role on the Canucks as WN does on the leafs. Not as productive, but the team as whole isn't productive. Baer was had for a second round pick. 

 

If Jake can be rounded into form, he will fill a much different role that cannot be found for a second round pick. 

 

EW

[Vinny in Vancouver]

8 hours ago, Mr.53 said:

 

 

Imagine a Ehlers - Horvat - Boeser line... That's a real top 6 line that can do damage. But anyway. If I had to rerank/redraft Jakes draft today.

 

1. Aaron Ekblad (An absolute two-way beast since day 1. He may be struggling, but number 1 Defensemen don't grow on trees)
2. Leon Draisaitl (Honestly the closest to making a case for number 1. If not for McDavid, he'd be the number 1 center)
3. Sam Reinhart (Beast player and coming along well. Plays well with different guys. Should be a top scorer soon.)
4. Nik Ehlers (Incredibly speed, skill, and offensive ability. One of, if not the best pure offensive talent)
5. David Pasternak (Huge sleeper making a case to be a top 5 pick. Great two-way and offensive skill)
6. Dylan Larkin (Also a huge sleeper. Struggling a bit this season, but has shown incredible two-way ability)
7. Willie Nylander (Similar to Ehlers in being an incredible offensive talent. Not as good as Ehlers but close.)
8. Sam Bennett (Good two-way player that is still waiting to breakout. Shows flashes of greatness)
9. Nick Ritchie (Might deserve to be lower, but he's showing he can play on the NHL level and is still an irreplaceable talent, adding value)
10. Robby Fabbri (Great offensive player who has risen. He is small and fragile, as well as not the best defender, but he's not bad either.)
11. Brandon Perlini (Big body who has honestly shocked me with how well he's done. We'll see if he continues.)
12. Kasperi Kapenen (Great talent who has shown he has mastered the AHL. He will move up soon to see if he can put it together.)
13. Jake Virtanen (Still an incredible raw talent, but has taken major steps back in putting the overall package together.)
14. Haydn Fleury (Still a good defensive prospect, but not a prospect that stands out ahead of other defensemen.)
15. Michael Dal Colle (Major dissapointment so a far on every level. Also doesn't have the raw strength and speed of a Virtanen to fall back on)

 

The key word here is 'today'. If he's as "obviously" bad as what some of the other posters here are saying, then I'm sure other GM's would see that as well, and it's pretty much sunk cost until his contract expires. So might as well see what happens in a few years' time. 

[canuckledraggin]

5 hours ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

Exactly!!

Everyone has an opinion and that is what breeds discussion. Too bad there are a few on here that will either belittle or strawman you if your opinion differs from their own. 

 

With that said, I have been guilty of the same in the past and try to keep an open mind for the most part these days. 

What discussion? This thread has devolved into Jake sucks we shoulda drafted so and so they're doing so much better. No Jake is still young he needs to be given a chance to develop in his own time. But Jake sucks. No he doesn't. Yes he does. No he doesn't. That is elementary school bickering and it doesn't pass for discussion anymore than I know you are but what am I. 

 

I have been on the give the kid a break and let him try to figure it out side, because what would really suck is if he busted and we had actually wasted that 6th overall pick. That hasn't happened yet though so I watch and look for ways that he can improve and ways that he has improved. I really feel like he is a Canuck already and I defend him as such. That's just my nature.

 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, canuckledraggin said:

What discussion? This thread has devolved into Jake sucks we shoulda drafted so and so they're doing so much better. No Jake is still young he needs to be given a chance to develop in his own time. But Jake sucks. No he doesn't. Yes he does. No he doesn't. That is elementary school bickering and it doesn't pass for discussion anymore than I know you are but what am I. 

 

I have been on the give the kid a break and let him try to figure it out side, because what would really suck is if he busted and we had actually wasted that 6th overall pick. That hasn't happened yet though so I watch and look for ways that he can improve and ways that he has improved. I really feel like he is a Canuck already and I defend him as such. That's just my nature.

 

So now one of Jake's biggest defenders is concerned we "wasted" a sixth overall pick?  The kid is only 20.   I bet even the worst of Jake's critics wants Jake to become a special player.  

[canuckledraggin]

Just now, Alflives said:

So now one of Jake's biggest defenders is concerned we "wasted" a sixth overall pick?  The kid is only 20.   I bet even the worst of Jake's critics wants Jake to become a special player.  

You missed the word if in there. Reading comprehension is a part of many of these so called discussions as well.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, canuckledraggin said:

You missed the word if in there. Reading comprehension is a part of many of these so called discussions as well.

Doesn't your just mentioning Jake's potential busting indicate you have concerns?  Heck, we all have concerns about Jake.  He's not doing very well, considering his draft position and year.  My point is that non of us want him to bust.  We all want him to become a good player for us.

[canuckledraggin]

Just now, Alflives said:

Doesn't your just mentioning Jake's potential busting indicate you have concerns?  Heck, we all have concerns about Jake.  He's not doing very well, considering his draft position and year.  My point is that non of us want him to bust.  We all want him to become a good player for us.

That's called talking out of both both sides of your face. Yes I would love for him to become a good player, but boy does he suck. I'm doing the exact thing that I hate so I'll leave it at that and be back later to defend him from the doom crew at some other time.

[J.I.A.H.N]

So I come here to see what is happening to Jake....Has he improved, is he dominating in anything, is he just doing a walk threw........and I can't get that info for all the BS on here.......come on guys! Is he doing anything well? Let's have an update! Some quotes, etc......

[GoBoGo53]

2 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

As of now WN has one goal and 7 more assists than Baer.  Both a players that rely on skill, both play alot of left wing.  Very Comparable.  Far more comparable than Jake and WN.  

 

Drafted 3 years apart, the age gap is there, but it's not outrageous They play the same roles and there is not a lot of difference, other than age, between them.  One was had for a 2nd rounder and the other was a top ten pick. 

 

 

I did not say I would take Jake at six in a redraft, but I would not take WN.  Larkin, Pasternak and Ehlers, absolutely, but I do not like Joffery, and will never like Joffery. 

 

What I was getting at was Baer fills the same role on the Canucks as WN does on the leafs. Not as productive, but the team as whole isn't productive. Baer was had for a second round pick. 

 

If Jake can be rounded into form, he will fill a much different role that cannot be found for a second round pick. 

 

EW

You are assuming though that at this stage Nylander is a finished product as well, and comparing him to a finished product in Baer. It just doesn't make sense. 

If Nylander can round into form (and he's actually doing it in the NHL unlike Jake) then he's a 80 point C/RW. That is impossible to find, much harder than a Virtanen type.

Edited February 9, 2017 by GoBoGo53

[guntrix]

10 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

So I come here to see what is happening to Jake....Has he improved, is he dominating in anything, is he just doing a walk threw........and I can't get that info for all the BS on here.......come on guys! Is he doing anything well? Let's have an update! Some quotes, etc......

He's been just as bad as he was the last 5 games... Green's focus on improving his defence has seemed to further negate his offensive abilities. He's skating back to defend more but he seems even less dangerous offensively. Imo, he's daydreaming a lot... he doesn't seem engaged with the play and at times looks like he's out there for a short skate. It's as if he expects that a call-up will come in due time regardless of how he plays. There's your update. 

 

 

[canuckledraggin]

27 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

So I come here to see what is happening to Jake....Has he improved, is he dominating in anything, is he just doing a walk threw........and I can't get that info for all the BS on here.......come on guys! Is he doing anything well? Let's have an update! Some quotes, etc......

20 year old Vancouver Canucks prospect Jake Virtanen.