Pete M Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 On 10/22/2018 at 11:03 PM, canuckistani said: You have answered your own question. +/- is a great TEAM stat. It means NOTHING for an individual stat. you can be the best defender in the world and if your team is full of mediocre players playing a contender team, you will end up with a minus. and vice versa. of course, it's not all about defense, always two sides of the puck...good defense wins...bad defense does not; but offense helps good defense. Good offense with bad defense isn't a good mix. Each player contributes to +,/-...it's an indicator of the overall play of the individual player, just an indicator, which isn't perfect because of all the variables. My point is it's a good team stat as I said....can't ignore it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Hurry up and develop Olli...Canucks need you badly....don't ever let pouliot come back!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruilin96 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 My theory of why Juolevi wasn't called up: I believe the team has always had the plan that let Olli play in the AHL, play the big minutes for atleast 20 games before giving him a shot at the NHL. He got back from a back surgery and he needed to readjust to smaller ice surface before throwing him into the NHL. I think at around December, we will get to see Olli. And if Olli performs, Pouliot is on his way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoneypuckOverlord Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 how did he look last game? ass clown canuck fans on hfboards.com seem to enjoy seeing Juolevi struggle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 15 hours ago, MoneypuckOverlord said: how did he look last game? ass clown canuck fans on hfboards.com seem to enjoy seeing Juolevi struggle. hfcanucks is a cesspool of negativity. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dekey Pete Posted October 29, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 29, 2018 On 10/25/2018 at 11:28 AM, aGENT said: This. Also Utica's got a tonne of injuries as well and desperately need him to actually stay down there and play. Not to mention the huge opportunity it gives him to be "the guy" in Utica, playing huge minutes and gaining some confidence. While it might have been nice for him to collect a bit of cash and get that first call up, he'll have plenty of opportunities in the future. 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) On 2018-10-24 at 9:57 PM, Top Sven Baercheese said: If Edler or Tanev (or both) are out for next game, do you think we see an Olli Juolevi call up? No. He just not good enough in his own zone and does provide enough offence to offset his liabilities. Edited October 30, 2018 by Ray_Cathode 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 On 2018-10-22 at 10:03 PM, canuckistani said: You have answered your own question. +/- is a great TEAM stat. It means NOTHING for an individual stat. you can be the best defender in the world and if your team is full of mediocre players playing a contender team, you will end up with a minus. and vice versa. Actually, it is a very revealing stat when your plus or minus is way out of scale with the rest of your teammates. Then it says a lot about your play, particularly when a lot of your time is spent on the PP and not against the other team’s best players. Juolevi is minus nine by far leading his team in minus. Brisebois, by comparison, who plays tough minutes, is +3. I’m not saying Juolevi doesn’t have promise. Last year both Brisebois and McEwan had pretty big minuses - they were both talented ROOKIES. Archibald and ,Carcone are both plus players on a team with a lot of minus players. It is no accident that they are both vets who have learned how to defend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoneypuckOverlord Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 30 minutes ago, Ray_Cathode said: No. He just not good enough in his own zone and does provide enough offence to offset his liabilities. so he's been a liability in his own zone then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckistani Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 15 minutes ago, Ray_Cathode said: Actually, it is a very revealing stat when your plus or minus is way out of scale with the rest of your teammates. Then it says a lot about your play, particularly when a lot of your time is spent on the PP and not against the other team’s best players. Juolevi is minus nine by far leading his team in minus. Brisebois, by comparison, who plays tough minutes, is +3. I’m not saying Juolevi doesn’t have promise. Last year both Brisebois and McEwan had pretty big minuses - they were both talented ROOKIES. Archibald and ,Carcone are both plus players on a team with a lot of minus players. It is no accident that they are both vets who have learned how to defend. Err...PP does not get you a + even if your side scores...you realize this, yes ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 38 minutes ago, canuckistani said: Err...PP does not get you a + even if your side scores...you realize this, yes ? Yes, I realize that, but they are comparatively easy minutes where you should not be picking up minuses - especially not compared to playing minutes against the other team’s best line (Brisebois). My point is that Juolevi is playing easier minutes than Brisebois and is -9 to Brisebois +3. Too many people are calling for him to be called up, but he is neither ready nor deserving compared to Brisebois. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 50 minutes ago, MoneypuckOverlord said: so he's been a liability in his own zone then? That’s my observation after watching all of the Utica games this year. He does show some great passes and good vision but his own zone is a work in progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post canuckistani Posted October 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 30, 2018 36 minutes ago, Ray_Cathode said: Yes, I realize that, but they are comparatively easy minutes where you should not be picking up minuses - especially not compared to playing minutes against the other team’s best line (Brisebois). My point is that Juolevi is playing easier minutes than Brisebois and is -9 to Brisebois +3. Too many people are calling for him to be called up, but he is neither ready nor deserving compared to Brisebois. You are not watching the games and going by the most random stats meter there is. The best defenceman, by far, this year to play for Utica is Biega - a legit NHL-er depth defenceman. He is the defense version of Boucher - fringe NHL-er who beats up on the AHL on a regular basis. And he is a -5 in 3 games. He isn't ready to be called up, but saying Brisebois is better due to a better +/- is literally laughable. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 35 minutes ago, canuckistani said: You are not watching the games and going by the most random stats meter there is. The best defenceman, by far, this year to play for Utica is Biega - a legit NHL-er depth defenceman. He is the defense version of Boucher - fringe NHL-er who beats up on the AHL on a regular basis. And he is a -5 in 3 games. He isn't ready to be called up, but saying Brisebois is better due to a better +/- is literally laughable. I watched all the Utica games. +/- was not the only reason I gave for being the better player, the fact that you have to ignore that fact and choose to argue against a straw man is proof as to the weakness of your argument - the simple fact is that you have no data whatsoever to support your opinion. If +/- is of no importance, what did guys like Orr, Lidstrom, Pronger, Dennis Potvin, have massive pluses over the course of their careers? Watching the games shows clearly that Juolevi is weak defensively. Ican’t help it if you are blinded by your fanboy wet dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post -Vintage Canuck- Posted October 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 30, 2018 Olli Juolevi on Sportsnet 650: "My confidence is high and things have been going well here. Enjoying playing in all situations and getting the ice-time. When you have injuries you may think 'Am I going to do things I used to do?' but I've gotten back to 100%." "Wouldn't say its a challenge transitioning to North American game, its a good thing that forecheck pressure is always coming hard on d-men. Forwards play really aggressive and it forces d-men to make quick decisions which is great to learn." "Hard to not notice what Elias is doing now with the Canucks and its great for him. The team has had a good start and you can see the speed the team has." "I think I'm ready to play in NHL whenever the call comes. I just need to keep playing & working hard on/off the ice. I'm just being patient and having while doing it." "It's great here in Utica because we're getting to know each other well and hopefully 1 day we get to move up and play together with the Canucks. It makes it easy to push ourselves to work hard." "Chatfield and I both like to move the puck. We try to make good plays and not just dumping the puck out and off the glass. We know we can hold onto the puck and our partner is ready to help out." 2 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kootenay Gold Posted October 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 30, 2018 This article in CA today by Daryl Keeping is a very good breakdown of Juolevi's game and how it is progressing. lots of video's of some of his defensive plays and exits out of the D zone. https://canucksarmy.com/2018/10/30/olli-juolevi/ 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 It's hard to get a read on how he's doing. On one hand, there are people who will pump his tires and blindly defend him no matter what because he's a Canucks' prospect. On the other there are people who seem to think he's been garbage so far. If he had a bad +/- it would be easy to write off, but having one of the worst in the league is a sign that something might be up. Despite that, he's been scoring at a good pace too. I don't really know what to make of it. It's likely somewhere in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure_Pavel Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 15 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said: It's hard to get a read on how he's doing. On one hand, there are people who will pump his tires and blindly defend him no matter what because he's a Canucks' prospect. On the other there are people who seem to think he's been garbage so far. If he had a bad +/- it would be easy to write off, but having one of the worst in the league is a sign that something might be up. Despite that, he's been scoring at a good pace too. I don't really know what to make of it. It's likely somewhere in the middle. I would suggest listening to the professionals like the GM and coach of the Comets, have heard a lot of positive things from them. Still agree he needs more time to develop, let him play 20+ minutes a night until after trade deadline/Christmas then give him a couple looks with the main squad. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rob_Zepp Posted October 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 30, 2018 13 hours ago, canuckistani said: You are not watching the games and going by the most random stats meter there is. The best defenceman, by far, this year to play for Utica is Biega - a legit NHL-er depth defenceman. He is the defense version of Boucher - fringe NHL-er who beats up on the AHL on a regular basis. And he is a -5 in 3 games. He isn't ready to be called up, but saying Brisebois is better due to a better +/- is literally laughable. You clearly are not watching the games and are simply taking stats at random. Have watched each and every Utica game by delayed feed and have them stored and I can count one game plus one period where OJ looked like a guy thinking too hard and trying to force things. EVERY other period he has been a force, pushing the play and making very good decisions with the puck. Utica is a much younger team this year and many missed assignments leaving D often hung out. Goaltending has been less than stellar too boot. I was able to follow OJ last year closely inclusive of seeing him play live more than five times and he has continued to develop in the right areas. His first pass remains elite and will transfer to the NHL very well. Try watching instead of bashing - it is a lot more insightful. 3 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 30 minutes ago, Horvat is a Boss said: It's hard to get a read on how he's doing. On one hand, there are people who will pump his tires and blindly defend him no matter what because he's a Canucks' prospect. On the other there are people who seem to think he's been garbage so far. If he had a bad +/- it would be easy to write off, but having one of the worst in the league is a sign that something might be up. Despite that, he's been scoring at a good pace too. I don't really know what to make of it. It's likely somewhere in the middle. Perhaps people should simply watch him play. It isn't hard to get a feed (live or delayed) for every game. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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