Same Problem for 5 years and Counting...

[Jiggs50]

People like picking apart this team and complain about the defense or how small the team is or that it's not fast enough and etc etc....

 

Truth is ever since the dreaded 2011 finals, the Canucks biggest problem above all has been their inability to score. The team needs big scoring help.

 

Even losing wouldn't suck if the Canucks could pot 2-3 goals a night. Would be at least somewhat entertaining. 

 

It's hard to criticize the Twins. They're really now 2nd line players thrusted into playing hard top line minutes.

 

The rest of the roster minus Eriksson and maybe Horvat, just isn't offensively good enough. 

 

WD won't give JV proper minutes cause he's actually some what talented. 

 

I'm hoping Edler+ gets shipped out for a top 6 forward. 

 

Thank god Boeser is coming next year. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[D.B Cooper]

Actually, for a long time our defence was our biggest problem.   

JB seems to have almost fixed that.  

Now, on to scoring.   We suck at it.  Big time. Period.  It's a freaking disaster.  

Over the next season, and offseason, I expect JB to at least, start fixing that.  

Boesser is coming.  That is a start, but major work needs to be done to fix this offence.    

What a mess.   

One step at a time, we will be on top again. 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope

[Mike Vanderhoek]

13 minutes ago, drummerboy said:

Actually, for a long time our defence was our biggest problem.   

JB seems to have almost fixed that.  

Now, on to scoring.   We suck at it.  Big time. Period.  It's a freaking disaster.  

Over the next season, and offseason, I expect JB to at least, start fixing that.  

Boesser is coming.  That is a start, but major work needs to be done to fix this offence.    

What a mess.   

One step at a time, we will be on top again. 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope

too positive, sure your in the right place ? this is CDC lol......no really haha

[Guest]

Our problem is that our team sucks.

[canuktravella]

our problem is willie  hes got people he can use that have skill but he doesnt utilize them. Give virtanen and tryamkin a real shot give them 20 mins  pp time see if they can do something because sedins, larsen sure arent getting anything done either  if that doesn't work  send jake to  comets and  try to khl. Sorry larsen isnt cutting it  maybe play bo with virt and baertchi

try something that worked last yr or try sonething new split sedins up 

 

play                   sedin sutter eriksson

                          baertchi hovat virt

                          granlund sedin hansen

                          

 

mix it up  d go for 

 

edler stecher

hutton tanev

tryamkin guddy 

 

if none of this works  grab some players off waivers and unload people on team that arent getting it done 

[canuktravella]

thankfully boeser, juolevi and a decent top 10 pick next draft will help if im benning and this spiral downwards keeps up  i max unload assets of vets   go full youth im bored with stale boring hockey       willie is killing this team no ones happy at all

[Nuxfanabroad]

Belying it's mediocre-status, the team has been scraping the cap-ceiling the past number of years. They were saddled with contracts to aging, under-performing vets, paid for stats they could no longer live up to. Excessive injuries during Torts' stint, & last yr, exacerbated the shortcomings.

 

I remember making 2 threads in Jan. 2015, advocating they sell aggressively. Wanted to go to youth/cap space more quickly, but I don't really know how that would've turned out? A bold & savvy GM might have been able to navigate out of rough waters; but at the same time would've had to draft exceedingly well. Basically, a Sam Pollock/Kenny Holland is all we ask of you!

 

Appears our 'black hole' of drafting from about 2007~2013 has created issues we just can't patch over. Factor in a league's apparent hatred of our franchise, & it's a mighty steep hill to climb.

 

ANOTHER variable to consider: Are we beholden to contracts that we wouldn't move on from(maybe because the franchise has such a dubious history, in this regard)?

 

Twins(for so many reasons, mostly accepted by all) 14,000,000

Edler(part of the Swedish-3, seems they really didn't want to move him) 5 mill

Burrows(polarizing debate..do we really need one?!) 4.5 mill (so much of this felt owed, due to past underpayment)

Miller(could be ANY vet 'tender; after the last famed duo, seems the team felt compelled to spend heavy in this position) 6 mill, + almost a mill(800 K) to a past 'tending star

 

Total..about 30,000,000 cap on these 5.

 

To illustrate this last detail, consider the teams that built from scorched earth rebuild, say, since about 2000(Pitt, LA, Wash, Chi). Witness how these teams dumped stars(especially Pitt, who almost left town/bankrupt). They gave names like Kovalev & Jagr the bum's rush out..Wash did the same with JJ. Wash(Leonosis) were very aggressive in dumping $ commitments, I recall.

 

Are we correct in our opposite approach in this issue? At the least, it poses an interesting debate. We can't bottom-out, due to retained vets. Yet we have a more 'gradual' roster-transition, with kids mostly drafted in lower spots. Who can be taught by long time stars.

 

With such an approach, it seems natural for shortcomings(namely: skill/scoring) to linger for a longer period.

[wai_lai416]

15 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Belying it's mediocre-status, the team has been scraping the cap-ceiling the past number of years. They were saddled with contracts to aging, under-performing vets, paid for stats they could no longer live up to. Excessive injuries during Torts' stint, & last yr, exacerbated the shortcomings.

 

I remember making 2 threads in Jan. 2015, advocating they sell aggressively. Wanted to go to youth/cap space more quickly, but I don't really know how that would've turned out? A bold & savvy GM might have been able to navigate out of rough waters; but at the same time would've had to draft exceedingly well. Basically, a Sam Pollock/Kenny Holland is all we ask of you!

 

Appears our 'black hole' of drafting from about 2007~2013 has created issues we just can't patch over. Factor in a league's apparent hatred of our franchise, & it's a mighty steep hill to climb.

 

ANOTHER variable to consider: Are we beholden to contracts that we wouldn't move on from(maybe because the franchise has such a dubious history, in this regard)?

 

Twins(for so many reasons, mostly accepted by all) 14,000,000

Edler(part of the Swedish-3, seems they really didn't want to move him) 5 mill

Burrows(polarizing debate..do we really need one?!) 4.5 mill (so much of this felt owed, due to past underpayment)

Miller(could be ANY vet 'tender; after the last famed duo, seems the team felt compelled to spend heavy in this position) 6 mill, + almost a mill(800 K) to a past 'tending star

 

Total..about 30,000,000 cap on these 5.

 

To illustrate this last detail, consider the teams that built from scorched earth rebuild, say, since about 2000(Pitt, LA, Wash, Chi). Witness how these teams dumped stars(especially Pitt, who almost left town/bankrupt). They gave names like Kovalev & Jagr the bum's rush out..Wash did the same with JJ. Wash(Leonosis) were very aggressive in dumping $ commitments, I recall.

 

Are we correct in our opposite approach in this issue? At the least, it poses an interesting debate. We can't bottom-out, due to retained vets. Yet we have a more 'gradual' roster-transition, with kids mostly drafted in lower spots. Who can be taught by long time stars.

 

With such an approach, it seems natural for shortcomings(namely: skill/scoring) to linger for a longer period.

easy to do when there wasn't a salary cap eh? sorry who's going to take on the Sedin's contract even if we were willing to move them? unless we retain 50% of each players salary even then it's a tough move at 7mil.. who has space for them on a contending team? and who wants 7-14mil worth of cap space on a non contending team? Edler doesn't want to be move and he's injured anyways last year so that's a non starter.. and what would you suggest the team do with burrows? buy him out? bury him in the AHL? there's nothing wrong with the Miller signing.. it's just a bridge until the next generation of goaltender from the system is ready.. You can say signing miller have forced lack out.. but what have lack done since? nothing... and you are saying because of the retained vets we can't bottom out? actually i like to argue that because we retained the vets we are bottoming out even faster.. last year finishing 3rd last is not bottoming out? because we have the Sedins as top line players when they clearly are no longer that.. it's costing the team coz we have no scoring threats from any of the line. Burrows is eating up the roster spot/min of legitimate NHLers at this point of his career.. so that's 25-30mil worth of cap space we can't use in free agency to address problem.. only thing that's keeping the team from completely bottoming out last year was the stellar goaltending from miller and markstrom.. and same so far this year...  

[Ghostsof1915]

28 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Belying it's mediocre-status, the team has been scraping the cap-ceiling the past number of years. They were saddled with contracts to aging, under-performing vets, paid for stats they could no longer live up to. Excessive injuries during Torts' stint, & last yr, exacerbated the shortcomings.

 

I remember making 2 threads in Jan. 2015, advocating they sell aggressively. Wanted to go to youth/cap space more quickly, but I don't really know how that would've turned out? A bold & savvy GM might have been able to navigate out of rough waters; but at the same time would've had to draft exceedingly well. Basically, a Sam Pollock/Kenny Holland is all we ask of you!

 

Appears our 'black hole' of drafting from about 2007~2013 has created issues we just can't patch over. Factor in a league's apparent hatred of our franchise, & it's a mighty steep hill to climb.

 

ANOTHER variable to consider: Are we beholden to contracts that we wouldn't move on from(maybe because the franchise has such a dubious history, in this regard)?

 

Twins(for so many reasons, mostly accepted by all) 14,000,000

Edler(part of the Swedish-3, seems they really didn't want to move him) 5 mill

Burrows(polarizing debate..do we really need one?!) 4.5 mill (so much of this felt owed, due to past underpayment)

Miller(could be ANY vet 'tender; after the last famed duo, seems the team felt compelled to spend heavy in this position) 6 mill, + almost a mill(800 K) to a past 'tending star

 

Total..about 30,000,000 cap on these 5.

 

To illustrate this last detail, consider the teams that built from scorched earth rebuild, say, since about 2000(Pitt, LA, Wash, Chi). Witness how these teams dumped stars(especially Pitt, who almost left town/bankrupt). They gave names like Kovalev & Jagr the bum's rush out..Wash did the same with JJ. Wash(Leonosis) were very aggressive in dumping $ commitments, I recall.

 

Are we correct in our opposite approach in this issue? At the least, it poses an interesting debate. We can't bottom-out, due to retained vets. Yet we have a more 'gradual' roster-transition, with kids mostly drafted in lower spots. Who can be taught by long time stars.

 

With such an approach, it seems natural for shortcomings(namely: skill/scoring) to linger for a longer period.

 

One problem you can't compare LA/Chicago to now anymore due to changes of the draft system. Toronto and Edmonton have lucked out finishing last and getting first overall. We finished 3rd last, drafted 5th. Edmonton went from 3rd overall to 1st overall and got McDavid in 2015. Buffalo finished last in 2014, but Florida drafted 1st and took Ekblad. Florida was last overall in 2013, and Colorado won the draft and took McKinnon.  When your odds are 1 in 5 you get the first overall, that's not good. 

 

As others have pointed out, the team can't trade these expensive contracts. No one has cap room. The team will have to ride it out. I really take issue with people saying Benning won't trade at the deadline. He was obviously trying to move Vrbata and Hamhuis agreed to waive. It's not Benning's fault that Chicago and Dallas didn't offer enough or kept changing the deals. And who wanted Vrbata last spring? No one. I bet no one was even kicking the tires. 

 

Hard to make trades when your players don't score. 

Vrbata last year also had zero value. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

2 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

easy to do when there wasn't a salary cap eh? sorry who's going to take on the Sedin's contract even if we were willing to move them? unless we retain 50% of each players salary even then it's a tough move at 7mil.. who has space for them on a contending team? and who wants 7-14mil worth of cap space on a non contending team? Edler doesn't want to be move and he's injured anyways last year so that's a non starter.. and what would you suggest the team do with burrows? buy him out? bury him in the AHL? there's nothing wrong with the Miller signing.. it's just a bridge until the next generation of goaltender from the system is ready.. You can say signing miller have forced lack out.. but what have lack done since? nothing... and you are saying because of the retained vets we can't bottom out? actually i like to argue that because we retained the vets we are bottoming out even faster.. last year finishing 3rd last is not bottoming out? because we have the Sedins as top line players when they clearly are no longer that.. it's costing the team coz we have no scoring threats from any of the line. Burrows is eating up the roster spot/min of legitimate NHLers at this point of his career.. so that's 25-30mil worth of cap space we can't use in free agency to address problem.. only thing that's keeping the team from completely bottoming out last year was the stellar goaltending from miller and markstrom.. and same so far this year...  

Just observing the overall scenario, as of late. Back say, 2 seasons ago I was more aggressively advocating one direction(or another). There are a number of reasons our team composition is a little different(unique?), & I don't really believe there are two team/city comparisons that can be precisely compared.

 

That's not to say there's no value in comparisons/contrast-studies with other franchises. Just that ultimately, it becomes an exercise in hypotheticals & theoreticals, where none of us are truly privy to all options at any given moment. Personally not willing(any more) to invest much time with such exercises.

[Just Jimmy]

1 hour ago, canuktravella said:

thankfully boeser, juolevi and a decent top 10 pick next draft will help if im benning and this spiral downwards keeps up  i max unload assets of vets   go full youth im bored with stale boring hockey       willie is killing this team no ones happy at all

 

ok the season is not even 10 games in, we are in the middle of the pack, and already people are throwing in the proverbial towel and banking on prospects and hoping for a top 10 pick??? Great yeah let's start wishing on a star that this Boeser kid makes it to the big time then all of you can start trashing him when he goes 10 games and only has 2 points...oh and lets wait another 5 years for that top 10 pick to finally get up to the Nucks so we can start picking him apart too. 

 

We need a left wing big scorer like right now to play with Sutter and Hansen on line 2. we have a top line that yes should be a 2nd line but we don't have a line good enough to put on line 1...oh and news flash, the Twins will end up retiring "TOGETHER" so where as teams are usually in mourning for their HOF player calling it a career, we are going to be down a #1 Center and winger right off the bat. So brace yourselves, and might as well start GMing it up now....

 

I'm just so sick of all the armchair GMing, the bashing of the coaching staff and the general nitpicking that CDC people do, its seriously mind bottling.

so glad i don't live in Vancouver and have  to hear this live too....however, i'm suspecting people in the really real world up in BC aren't really like this. they actually support their team and look at the current bright things we have to offer.

 

Bash my post if you want i dont care, i've been a Nucks fan for 26 years and ive dealt with a lot of heart break and mediocre years, so some internet babies are not going to ruin my day. if you want to pick me apart....go  nuts.

 

[Nuxfanabroad]

3 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

 

One problem you can't compare LA/Chicago to now anymore due to changes of the draft system. Toronto and Edmonton have lucked out finishing last and getting first overall. We finished 3rd last, drafted 5th. Edmonton went from 3rd overall to 1st overall and got McDavid in 2015. Buffalo finished last in 2014, but Florida drafted 1st and took Ekblad. Florida was last overall in 2013, and Colorado won the draft and took McKinnon.  When your odds are 1 in 5 you get the first overall, that's not good. 

 

As others have pointed out, the team can't trade these expensive contracts. No one has cap room. The team will have to ride it out. I really take issue with people saying Benning won't trade at the deadline. He was obviously trying to move Vrbata and Hamhuis agreed to waive. It's not Benning's fault that Chicago and Dallas didn't offer enough or kept changing the deals. And who wanted Vrbata last spring? No one. I bet no one was even kicking the tires. 

 

Hard to make trades when your players don't score. 

Vrbata last year also had zero value. 

Agree with your insights, Ghosts. The various scenarios can prove themselves illuminating, educational & sometimes damn-well infuriating!

 

So many bloody variables. Then they throw in the off-ice stuff. Like where guys wanna play(NTC's, taxes in diff locales, etc)..

 

Overhear conversations at the local Tim Ho's & you don't know if they're hockey enthusiasts, or a gaggle of accountants. For me, all this shyte is contriving to take the fun outa' it(like too many coaches, barking too many rules at petrified rooks)

[Drakrami]

4 hours ago, drummerboy said:

Actually, for a long time our defence was our biggest problem.   

JB seems to have almost fixed that.  

Now, on to scoring.   We suck at it.  Big time. Period.  It's a freaking disaster.  

Over the next season, and offseason, I expect JB to at least, start fixing that.  

Boesser is coming.  That is a start, but major work needs to be done to fix this offence.    

What a mess.   

One step at a time, we will be on top again. 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope

Defence was our biggest problem? 3/3 of the defencemen we shipped away are now playing top 4 minutes on great teams. 

[Rocksterh8]

Why in the Hell did Jim give Errickson 6 million x 6 years? for what?  Big Big Big mistake we will be paying for a long time.

[Alflives]

25 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

Defence was our biggest problem? 3/3 of the defencemen we shipped away are now playing top 4 minutes on great teams. 

So what's your point?  To beat around the bush.  Say what you're thinking.

[MJDDawg]

Losing isn't a problem for me if I can see a direction and light at the end of the tunnel.

 

I'm not sure how many here remember the early days of AV's coaching gig here. The twins started to transition to the number one line and Burr and Kess were on the third/fourth lines. 

 

The team had a hell of a time scoring goals early in the season. It got so bad, I remember the Province running a score line along the bottom of two full pages showing the number of goals the Canucks scored game by game...and all you saw was 0101120112..... it got to the point by around Christmas I think where during interviews and being asked by the local hacks for the 1,455, 327th time why the team couldn't score, all AV could do was that laugh of his as he had no answer. 

 

But I wasn't down on them because I could see what was happening, and in the second half of the season, the team started to take off. The thing I remember most about those first couple of years with AV is that this team worked its arse off EVERY game. It was unreal. Losses didn't feel like losses because of how hard they were working and how difficult they made every game for the opposition. Also didn't hurt that the young guys brought up, Juice, Burr and Kess, all had chips on their shoulders. The future of the team was suddenly becoming brighter and fans could see the makings of possibly something special.

 

I'm trying to convince myself that the scoring woes of this team are similar to those early AV teams and that the young guns will eventually find their groove. 

 

Here's to wishful thinking and hope!

 

[RU SERIOUS]

6 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

 

We are not the only team who have not been winning a Cup and many of the others haven't been as close as us. The rest of your sentence imo is bollocks.

Did you watch the game? We played damn well, without scoring, against a team that banjoed the Jets, Caps and Blues.

 

5 hours ago, Jiggs50 said:

People like picking apart this team and complain about the defense or how small the team is or that it's not fast enough and etc etc....

 

Truth is ever since the dreaded 2011 finals, the Canucks biggest problem above all has been their inability to score. The team needs big scoring help.

 

Even losing wouldn't suck if the Canucks could pot 2-3 goals a night. Would be at least somewhat entertaining. 

 

It's hard to criticize the Twins. They're really now 2nd line players thrusted into playing hard top line minutes.

 

The rest of the roster minus Eriksson and maybe Horvat, just isn't offensively good enough. 

 

WD won't give JV proper minutes cause he's actually some what talented. 

 

I'm hoping Edler+ gets shipped out for a top 6 forward. 

 

Thank god Boeser is coming next year. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with you on Edler. If he takes one more 0% chance slap shot in the offensive zone onto someone's knee pads - instead of shooting  or playing the puck around the player - I'm going to go mad !!!!!    There is some sort of mental block there I think.......  He does that 2-3 times every single game for the last 150 years and it has never worked. 

WILL HE EVER FIGURE THAT OUT ???????

[Alflives]

19 minutes ago, MJDDawg said:

Losing isn't a problem for me if I can see a direction and light at the end of the tunnel.

 

I'm not sure how many here remember the early days of AV's coaching gig here. The twins started to transition to the number one line and Burr and Kess were on the third/fourth lines. 

 

The team had a hell of a time scoring goals early in the season. It got so bad, I remember the Province running a score line along the bottom of two full pages showing the number of goals the Canucks scored game by game...and all you saw was 0101120112..... it got to the point by around Christmas I think where during interviews and being asked by the local hacks for the 1,455, 327th time why the team couldn't score, all AV could do was that laugh of his as he had no answer. 

 

But I wasn't down on them because I could see what was happening, and in the second half of the season, the team started to take off. The thing I remember most about those first couple of years with AV is that this team worked its arse off EVERY game. It was unreal. Losses didn't feel like losses because of how hard they were working and how difficult they made every game for the opposition. Also didn't hurt that the young guys brought up, Juice, Burr and Kess, all had chips on their shoulders. The future of the team was suddenly becoming brighter and fans could see the makings of possibly something special.

 

I'm trying to convince myself that the scoring woes of this team are similar to those early AV teams and that the young guns will eventually find their groove. 

 

Here's to wishful thinking and hope!

 

I like your wishful thinking, but we don't have two young elite forwards like the Twins.  Maybe Boeser is one?

[alfstonker]

5 hours ago, Chandymen said:

Our problem is that our team sucks.

 

and our "fans" don't actually watch the games but that doesn't stop them coming on here and spouting BS.

 

Let's get one thing straight. Our team played with speed, energy and commitment last night and if we had had "a McDavid" on our first line, the game would have been over by the 3rd period.

We have a 30 goal scorer but he has dried up. That may be just down to settling into a new team and coming from the Eastern Conference.

 

By the way when the game was in the balance we went one and then two forwards short but as you seemingly didn't watch the whole game you may not have known that.

[Fanaholic]

If only those three games in California last year were losses instead of wins.   If only.   I know this team won't tank but just too bad they didn't lose.   Draft coming up isn't half of what this one was.  Last nights game was AWESOME (both teams flying up and down the ice and I was so happy for Kassian) but the player I felt most sorry for was Ryan Miller.   He played his guts out and the TOPIC says it all.   SAME OLD SAME OLD and nothing has been done about it.   WE NEED GOAL SCORERS - this saga has been going on since end of 2011.

 

As a Season Ticket Holder last night was my second regular season game only.   When you pay big bucks and you don't even want to go it is scary.   If only we had another BURE (should have cloned that guy).   I like Bo Horvat but lots of times he just plays on a line on his own.   You have to use your line mates or it won't get any better.  I think Jake needs a new trainer for next year to get him fitness ready before the season starts.   You see how he is the first one off when he is on Bo's line.  He trained but maybe not the right way.  

 

I've GOT IT . . . .   When the SEDIN's RETIRE we can't let them go.   They can be our new TRAINERS and all players will do what they do.   

 

JUST VENTING.   Today I am another year older so could somebody ask this team to get a goal.    AND trust me I am so old that I may never see a CUP. . . .