Crabcakes Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 2 hours ago, on the cycle said: Hey man, thats 1st line production. Get another top line center and we're set down the middle. Ya, I did a search a while ago for point production amongst NHL centres, it's pretty easy, the results for last year were: Top 30 centres 55-85 points 31 -60 42-54 61-90 29-42 91-120 18-29 I haven't gone through player by player. Malkin is in the top 30 but plays 2nd line for example. But overall it shows the production range that a centre from a given line should be scoring in. With respect to the top line, the median (15th) centre scored 63 points which is closer to the bottom than the top which would indicate the data is skewed towards the lower end. The middle 10 of the top 30 (11-20) range from 59-64 which I would call typical for a 1st line centre (who should be a 1st line centre). The so called true #1's would be the top 10 (67-85) but if you went through the list name by name there would be exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 13 hours ago, J-23 said: Bo Horvat is for sure our best player this season. He plays with heart, and he is a player who works hard. When we drafted this guy I was so excited, I love his worth ethic. Now when I look back on his draft year, he has out worked almost all the forwards drafted in front of him, in my opinion. #1: Nathan Mackinnon - So far this season Nathan and Bo both have 25 points. However, Nathan is on the 1st line getting big minutes, whereas Bo is on the 3rd line. (Bo still gets good minutes, hope he gets more though). #2: Alexsander Barkov Jr. - The only player in the draft class that has more points that Horvat with 27. However, I don't think he has that defensive game that Horvat brings us. #3: Jonathan Drouin - So far this season Horvat has 3 more points than Drouin, and Drouin is a second liner playing with two real good veterans, Boyle and Fillpula (Not saying Baer and Burr are bad line mates). Plus Bo brings a positive attitude towards this team, and no drama. Unlike Drouin who requested for a trade and brought immediate drama to his team. #5: Elias Lindholm - Only 13 points this season plus he plays on the second line with Jordan Staal. #6: Sean Monahan - He has 20 points, plays on the 1st line with Johnny Gaudreau and he is a -14. #9: Bo Horvat - 10 goals, 15 assist, plays on the 3rd line (Which should be our 1st or 2nd line in my opinion), kills penalties and a great defensive player. The numbers don't lie. All I'm saying is maybe Horvat was overlooked. He has everything you need in a future #1 center, and he has recently been adding physicality to his game. We are very lucky to have Bo, and I love watching him play. He is a great overall player, who will continue to get better, and if he continues to work hard he will be an elite player in this league Thanks for the work here. I think this illustrates the importance of player development. Some of these guys are playing over their heads and showing it clearly. Deployment is such an important part of development. Sutter has been taking 2nd line reps and I'm thankful for it because clearly Horvat is doing very well in the role he is now cast in. Sutter is a little over his head imo. He's a good 3C and it's showing because he's running at -16. With Sutter injured much of last year, Horvat ran -30 as opposed to his -2 being properly deployed this year. We're seeing the benefits of this deployment because right now Horvat is the top point getter on the team. The real benefits will be seen in the years to come as he and others grow into top 6 roles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyg43 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 In The last 4 years Gillus has brought in the best player of all management teams .There is no indication Jim Benning will be anytime soon.However, drafting is supposed to be J B claim to fame hopefully we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I am the biggest Bo fan out there but after seeing him play for awhile now the only thing I think he needs to work on his play along the boards. I see him on the PP and consistently lose the puck along the boards. He is our best guy on the rush by far but needs work cycling the puck. You think he could pick up some tips from the Sedins by now. All other aspects of his game are great and I look forward to seeing him in the coming years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyg43 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 15 minutes ago, EdgarM said: I am the biggest Bo fan out there but after seeing him play for awhile now the only thing I think he needs to work on his play along the boards. I see him on the PP and consistently lose the puck along the boards. He is our best guy on the rush by far but needs work cycling the puck. You think he could pick up some tips from the Sedins by now. All other aspects of his game are great and I look forward to seeing him in the coming years. Wow Edgar good point ,I have thought that on numerous games, but that element will continue to get better with a big skilled strong fast winger reinforcing his line an could majority of board battles won.To bad Virtannen has curtailed his own development or he may have been that guy. missed you on the boards here ! Where have you been? Good your back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shazzam Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I will go with the Sedins. They probably still go up against the toughest competition. Bo's time will come but it's another ball game when you got the best defenders going up against you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Horvat. Sedins are great but more predictable than previous years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 3 hours ago, bobbyg43 said: Wow Edgar good point ,I have thought that on numerous games, but that element will continue to get better with a big skilled strong fast winger reinforcing his line an could majority of board battles won.To bad Virtannen has curtailed his own development or he may have been that guy. missed you on the boards here ! Where have you been? Good your back Thanks Bobby. Been busy working and being sick. Yeah I think he will get better just like he improved his skating from the first season. Hopefully Virt will make it back next year as I really liked what he brought to the team. I am really hoping he is going to be our next Bert. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plsdontdoit Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 No laine is If only... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzi44ever Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Yes and that's scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hectic Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 23 hours ago, Green⌃Arrow said: Let's put him in the ROH. First active player to be inducted. hahahaha love it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 22 hours ago, J-23 said: Bo Horvat is for sure our best player this season. He plays with heart, and he is a player who works hard. When we drafted this guy I was so excited, I love his worth ethic. Now when I look back on his draft year, he has out worked almost all the forwards drafted in front of him, in my opinion. #1: Nathan Mackinnon - So far this season Nathan and Bo both have 25 points. However, Nathan is on the 1st line getting big minutes, whereas Bo is on the 3rd line. (Bo still gets good minutes, hope he gets more though). #2: Alexsander Barkov Jr. - The only player in the draft class that has more points that Horvat with 27. However, I don't think he has that defensive game that Horvat brings us. #3: Jonathan Drouin - So far this season Horvat has 3 more points than Drouin, and Drouin is a second liner playing with two real good veterans, Boyle and Fillpula (Not saying Baer and Burr are bad line mates). Plus Bo brings a positive attitude towards this team, and no drama. Unlike Drouin who requested for a trade and brought immediate drama to his team. #5: Elias Lindholm - Only 13 points this season plus he plays on the second line with Jordan Staal. #6: Sean Monahan - He has 20 points, plays on the 1st line with Johnny Gaudreau and he is a -14. #9: Bo Horvat - 10 goals, 15 assist, plays on the 3rd line (Which should be our 1st or 2nd line in my opinion), kills penalties and a great defensive player. The numbers don't lie. All I'm saying is maybe Horvat was overlooked. He has everything you need in a future #1 center, and he has recently been adding physicality to his game. We are very lucky to have Bo, and I love watching him play. He is a great overall player, who will continue to get better, and if he continues to work hard he will be an elite player in this league Pierre Maguire did say in that Draft that there was another team that had Bo Horvat ranked at #4 so for the most part I am sure there was a handful of team that ranked him higher than his #15 ranking. In any event comparing his production this season with Nathan MacKinnon alone shows this pick was a huge win for Vancouver. I just hope this is just of many of such instances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 10 hours ago, bobbyg43 said: In The last 4 years Gillus has brought in the best player of all management teams .There is no indication Jim Benning will be anytime soon.However, drafting is supposed to be J B claim to fame hopefully we shall see. Well so far Benning has drafted Boesser, Demko, and Tryamkin all whom are projected to be NHL players and possibly elite talent in the first two. Sure the Virtanen pick may sting but it's not like Benning went against the analysts rankings you could see he averaged at #6 in the rankings. Of course he could have picked Ehlers or Nylander instead of Virtanen since they were hovering slightly above the #6 ranking but still you can't put this all on Benning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 23 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said: Bo has been our best player since the halfway point of last season, so basically for the last calendar year. Most productive, best PKer, eats the hardest minutes, gets the worst zone starts and deployment, best face off center and the most 'clutch' player on the roster. Future captain and already a leader thru example. The only person that cannot seem to understand this is Willie 'Bo is our 4th line center' D. Everytime I look a the deployment data post game, I scratch my head. It doesn't make sense and one logical conclusion is that this is a deliberate action desgined to keep the team on the edge of success without getting there this year. To me, the coaching and use of players only makes sense in that context. Maybe Management, coaching and ownership understand that this team needs to get more good prospects to really turn things around. MakIng the playoffs this season could actually set the team back, but being competitive and being in the mix will improve our young players without sacrificing the future. We are better than our record and If Bo was getting Granlunds minutes and linemates we would have more wins and points, IMO. EW How many fourth liners get over 17 minutes a game? He's averaging 1:27 per game behind Henrik. He'd be getting less time per game if he got Granlunds ice time. Btw, Bo's deployment makes complete sense. It plays to all his strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Honestly... Who gives a crap about, which line Horvat is playing on. He is improving year on year, and is turning into a real star. How about giving some credit to the team behind him, manager in particular, for getting him to where he is now. Its pathetic, that despite him doing so well, people still find the need to $&!# on WD, for he deployment of Horvat. He is a bloody success story all round. He is happy, the coaches are happy, everybody's happy...except the usual suspects... And after this little rant... Happy New Year to all of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefCon1 Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Bo Horvat is the GAME!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Barzal Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 He's going to sacrifice a lot of his best years for the rebuild sadly. He's an inspirational player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I think our goalies are the best players this season. As far as forwards and D, it's Bo and it's not even close IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 16 hours ago, Crabcakes said: Thanks for the work here. I think this illustrates the importance of player development. Some of these guys are playing over their heads and showing it clearly. Deployment is such an important part of development. Sutter has been taking 2nd line reps and I'm thankful for it because clearly Horvat is doing very well in the role he is now cast in. Sutter is a little over his head imo. He's a good 3C and it's showing because he's running at -16. With Sutter injured much of last year, Horvat ran -30 as opposed to his -2 being properly deployed this year. We're seeing the benefits of this deployment because right now Horvat is the top point getter on the team. The real benefits will be seen in the years to come as he and others grow into top 6 roles. With Sutter at 2C and Horvat at 3C look how much the FO% has improved this year. Currently 5th in the NHL. Last year worst? Canucks dominated the Oilers in the circle. Puck possession versus retrieval. Look at how much pressure that put on the Van d-core last year. They were in constant physical battle in their own zone plus exposed to injury from hits along the boards. I am sure the Canuck management understood how much they exposed a young Horvat in his first two seasons. They could have ruined his development and the fact he has flourished is a testament to his personality. IMHO he is the only legit top 6 player with the club right now. Sheltering him to an extent has re-established his FO confidence and allowed his offensive game to mature. Having him with Burrows is huge. Horvat's point production can be overstated. The Twins still draw the top opposition d-pairings. What is important is that Horvat can build on his game. This is the most important thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 2 hours ago, Mathew Barzal said: He's going to sacrifice a lot of his best years for the rebuild sadly. He's an inspirational player. Really? Is that how you feel about Nylader's time in TO? Oh what a loss for his career, having to rebuild in TO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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