[Article] How boring Canucks style could trick them into trade deadline mistakes

[LaBamba]

12 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

More than you can do in a blizzard or a drive thru. 

 

Hey, its just my personal experience re: Edmonton or Calgary. If you dig it, fantastic. I'm only speaking for myself and what I like. 

Don't argue for the sake of argument. If you are so well rounded in both cities and you're going to make a claim that Vancouver has twice as many people yet half the attendance because there is more to do than I want specifics as to what you do at 7pm on a Wednesday in Vancouver that cannot be done in Edmonton. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 hour ago, S'all Good Man said:

Thats just not true. I do a lot of downhill and nordic and Camore doesn't measure up to Whistler Olympic Park. Banff is great tho but compared to Whistler I don't think you can say one over the other. 

 

I can't stand Calgary, spent a lot of time working there as a consultant and happy never to return. 

 

I honestly hate whistler for snowboarding, is way too busy and the snow has never been very good any time i went.  I'll take sunshine or Louise or even Kicking horse.  Although big Mountian in whitefish is where I've been getting to a lot more lately.

 

Yeah I honestly felt the same way about vancouver.  I hated it, to much of a city feel, very little community feel, people were no where near as friendly.  I actually finally convinced my sister to move back to Calgary after living in van for 5 years, and even though before she was a die hard van is bette, she's now admitted that she prefers calgary. 

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I honestly hate whistler for snowboarding, is way too busy and the snow has never been very good any time i went.  I'll take sunshine or Louise or even Kicking horse.  Although big Mountian in whitefish is where I've been getting to a lot more lately.

 

Yeah I honestly felt the same way about vancouver.  I hated it, to much of a city feel, very little community feel, people were no where near as friendly.  I actually finally convinced my sister to move back to Calgary after living in van for 5 years, and even though before she was a die hard van is bette, she's now admitted that she prefers calgary. 

People will always enjoy living in a place where they can afford to live, and where they can make inroads in the community. It makes all the difference in the world. Vancouver has less and less of it, with what were once strong communities being replaced by superficial, stylish neighborhoods devoid of any history or culture. I mean, c'mon, but how much craft beer can a city really, truly have!

 

I'm born and raised in Vancouver, and the amount of change that has happened in the Lower Mainland has destroyed a lot of what made the city great. Vancouver has essentially torn down and built over most of it's history. I feel very little connection to the place anymore.

[Ronaldoescobar]

So in summary:

 

The Canucks are horrible

The city of Vancouver is a dump

The majority of Vancouverites are fair-weather fans

Vancouverites are some of, if not the most the rude people in Canada/North America

 

Seems about right for a Vancouver Canucks forum.....Frustrating as ever but the norm these days...   

[Ajax-]

21 hours ago, VanGnome said:

All those years we laughed at the Flames for doing exactly this, and we're repeating the very same mistakes. Deluded management too close to see really just how bad the team is night in, night out, and a lot of that is due to the coaching personnel and their decisions.

This team as constructed minus a few pieces here and there ARE capable of playing a high up tempo game. We just need a coaching staff that can inspire confidence and make players believe they can make plays. Eriksson looks like a shell of his former self in the first year of a 6 year deal. That's BAD.

WD is coaching the talent out of this team, and it's pissing me off.

TL and JB's defiant insistence of their support for WD is beyond insanity.

We don't actually need to tear down and rebuild. We need to be coached properly and to play to our strengths... the youth we DO have NOW need to be given the reigns to be creative and have the slack in the leash in order to make, and learn from their mistakes.

WD's choking, slow and boring win at all costs has us effectively at .500 hockey. I don't see how actually being competitive with a competent offensive strategy could lose us many more games. WD is coaching himself out of this city by not endearing himself and his decisions to us the fans. It's a business, I get it. His job is to win games, I get it. But you know what they don't get? This is a business who's SOLE purpose is to ENTERTAIN FANS, so that money is spent and revenues generated and their salaries paid.

WD and the coaching staff are complacent and taking for granted that they're coaching where they are, while neglecting the sole aspect that keeps them in those jobs to begin with. Management similarly is hushing US the fans like misbehaving children saying "The adults are talking, go back to whatever unimportant thing it is you're trying to distract us with."

Worst of all, OWNERSHIP is driving this ship, and ignoring the fans at the same time. This $&!# doesn't flow up, it flows top down.

</rant>

Ok, just trying to get your gist?

 

WD and coaching staff are the problem?

TL and JB are the problem cause they support the coach?

We don't need rebuid, tear down or retool? just need to be coached properly?

Management talks to us like children?

ohhh and Ownership is the real problem?

 

No sure but did i sum that up?

 

Go Canucks Go

[hammertime]

20 hours ago, Alflives said:

Other than Bo, who on your list stands out as another elite player?  I absolutely agree that JB is turning over the roster.  I just don't see the end product (other than Bo) as being any better than just average.  I have high hopes for Juiolevvi, Boeser, Lockwood, and Gaudette.  But it's only hopeful thinking.  Those guys have yet to show at the NHL level.  We need elite young guys to go along with Bo, don't we? 

Tryamkin, Boeser, Juolevi, Demko among others in our pool could very well turn into "elite" players. They are prospects Alf we won't know their ceiling for another 3-5 years. The future isn't as dire as you make it sound. Things can change. The heavy lifting has been done JB took our D from a barren wasteland to a point of strength overnight. It doesn't matter how many elite young fwd prospects you have if you have no defence see Edm for the past decade. JB has swung for the fences drafting skill guys in the late rounds instead of bottom 6 ers in Gaudette, Jasek, Zhuk, Lockwood in hopes that one of those guys turns into something special. I have confidence that now that JB has his sights set on the fwd group he will be able to turn that around too. We have a stockpile of tradable assets Hansen, Granlund, Tanev, Burr, Sbisa. I'm sure that that package can be turned into a couple of young top flight Fwds.        

[JM_]

41 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

Don't argue for the sake of argument.

 

If you are so well rounded in both cities and you're going to make a claim that Vancouver has twice as many people yet half the attendance because there is more to do than I want specifics as to what you do at 7pm on a Wednesday in Vancouver that cannot be done in Edmonton. 

Thats kind of my thing.

 

What do I do? I ski if i can, or if not walk on the sea wall, or a hike, or go to any one of about 100 great little restaurants 10 min from me, or go to cheap-ass night at the art gallery or occasionally a Canucks game. 

[VanGnome]

14 minutes ago, AbrasiveAjax said:

Ok, just trying to get your gist?

 

WD and coaching staff are the problem?

TL and JB are the problem cause they support the coach?

We don't need rebuid, tear down or retool? just need to be coached properly?

Management talks to us like children?

ohhh and Ownership is the real problem?

 

No sure but did i sum that up?

 

Go Canucks Go

Try this on for size:

Ownership has a misguided belief about this team's ability at present, and is forcing an incorrect edict to management

Management capitulates to this edict
Management refuses to correct an obvious mistake by ridding themselves of a coaching staff inadequate to do the job
Management does not *really* respect the opinions of the true fans who actually do want to be competitive, I don't expect them to respect the opinions of the few who seem to advocate the tank
Most of a "rebuild" has already occurred, small tweaks needed from here on out
A proper coaching staff could make better use of the personnel already in place

With the coaches that have been fired thus far this season, I would think that Gallant would fit this team perfectly. The Panthers were doing really well with a mixture of veterans and youth, until management changed and decided analytics was the way forward and began making questionable decisions (one which actually worked out in our favor).

[JM_]

39 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I honestly hate whistler for snowboarding, is way too busy and the snow has never been very good any time i went.  I'll take sunshine or Louise or even Kicking horse.  Although big Mountian in whitefish is where I've been getting to a lot more lately.

 

Yeah I honestly felt the same way about vancouver.  I hated it, to much of a city feel, very little community feel, people were no where near as friendly.  I actually finally convinced my sister to move back to Calgary after living in van for 5 years, and even though before she was a die hard van is bette, she's now admitted that she prefers calgary. 

I can respect that LL is pretty freaking amazing. For me there no better place to ski than the 2010 venue between Squamish and Whistler. You can do everything from skate to back country, its pretty much nordic heaven. 

 

I get a bit defensive over the "Vancouver sucks" crowd, has the 'crappiest fans' stuff, it doesn't. Its a great place and great fans.

 

 I'm also originally from Saskatoon so for me Calgary just isn't different enough. I also had some crappy work experiences there which really turned me off the place. 

 

For me Vancouver is just starting to get really interesting so I'm always surprised when I hear people don't like it, but thats what makes the world go around. 

[LaBamba]

19 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

Thats kind of my thing.

 

What do I do? I ski if i can, or if not walk on the sea wall, or a hike, or go to any one of about 100 great little restaurants 10 min from me, or go to cheap-ass night at the art gallery or occasionally a Canucks game. 

You ski, walk on the sea wall and hike at night? Do you mug people for a living? In Edmonton you can play hockey at an outdoor rink with beers and friends. You can go ice fishing for burbot at night, go for a night skidoo ride, got to the curling club, Go to the casino, strippers, you can go to an authentic Ukrainian restaurant. I would argue that there are more things to do in a winter climate in the winter than a rainy climate in the winter. 

[JamesB]

2 hours ago, Dragonass said:

Trading for Granlund and Bear ? Your right about the top picks vs the late picks but that should make trades for picks easyer shouldn't it ? If you're asking for a second and a fourth instead of a first round pick there has to be more trade partners .

 

I agree that the Granlund for Shinkaruk trade was a good move and so was picking up Baertschi for a second round pick. What I had in mind was "categories". The relevant categories are "player trades" and "trading picks for older prospects".

 

I think think the Baertschi deal was the only picks for prospect deal that worked out well.

And, as for player trades, some of which also involved picks as well, I think the result is pretty close to neutral -- not bad but not what I would call good, either. And that is kind of what you expect. With knowelgable GMs on both sides of a deal, it is rare to get a big win or a big loss (although it does happen).

[Angry Goose]

3 hours ago, JamesB said:

I want to see a Cup contender again. And that takes a rebuild. The Sedins have had great careers but there is no way they can be the central building block for a Cup contender now or down the road.

 

 

 

lol and when that "re build" doesn't work, let me guess, time for another 're build'?  

[riffraff]

5 hours ago, S'all Good Man said:

No, that would be thinking we're going to the cup. Loui's down year can be explained by a lot of factors including Willie, and also the fact that he never would have signed here knowing his line mates would be named Chaput, Megna, Granlund or even Sutter. Lets face it, he came here to be with the Sedins, and unfortunately this is also the year they decided to show their age too. There's a lot of things going on here. 

Not trying to pick at you but imo the above are just excuses and poor ones at that.  I'll go so far as to say that if In fact those issues are solely responsible for his lacklustre success then it speaks to a gross miscalculation on JBs part as well as total mismanagement in wd's part.  In other words a complete cluster&^@#.

 

and I don't doubt for a second he was thrilled to sign a lucrative retirement contract in a great city no matter who his linemates were going to be.

[Ajax-]

1 hour ago, VanGnome said:

Try this on for size:

Ownership has a misguided belief about this team's ability at present, and is forcing an incorrect edict to management

Management capitulates to this edict
Management refuses to correct an obvious mistake by ridding themselves of a coaching staff inadequate to do the job
Management does not *really* respect the opinions of the true fans who actually do want to be competitive, I don't expect them to respect the opinions of the few who seem to advocate the tank
Most of a "rebuild" has already occurred, small tweaks needed from here on out
A proper coaching staff could make better use of the personnel already in place

With the coaches that have been fired thus far this season, I would think that Gallant would fit this team perfectly. The Panthers were doing really well with a mixture of veterans and youth, until management changed and decided analytics was the way forward and began making questionable decisions (one which actually worked out in our favor).

The fact that your so matter of fact leaves me humbled in your mighty informed presence. Why are you not an owner, GM? your powers of observation and fact are simply awe inspiring. Your factual statements must be true and correct spoken with such conviction. I now have no doubt, sorry to have questioned your factual statements

 

now if you might have added along the way "in my opinion, the way i see it, I feel that"....................., well that would be different, Opinions as like arseholes we all have one

 

Continue blaming everyone from the owner, management and  down to the Coaching staff, I"m sure the stick boy is screwing up big time.

 

Win as a team, loose as a team, Go Canucks Go

 

[Dekey Pete]

On 07/02/2017 at 3:46 PM, Alflives said:

Other than Bo, who on your list stands out as another elite player?  I absolutely agree that JB is turning over the roster.  I just don't see the end product (other than Bo) as being any better than just average.  I have high hopes for Juiolevvi, Boeser, Lockwood, and Gaudette.  But it's only hopeful thinking.  Those guys have yet to show at the NHL level.  We need elite young guys to go along with Bo, don't we? 

To be fair, a couple years back people were pegging Bo as a 3rd line center, 2nd line ceiling.  Outside of the "sure thing" picks, sometimes you just have to take a wait and see approach to see what you have.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

8 hours ago, LaBamba said:

They were the crappiest team in modern history and still sold out nearly every game. Those are some of the worst fans? Hahaha ok. And don't say it's because there is nothing to do in Edmonton. impling that the list is 10 fold when it comes to recreational activities in the dark winter rain of Vancouver. "What shall I do? Go to Canucks game or put on skinny jeans and check out new hookah bar? Me and my friends can sit around, smoke and talk about Alberta's impact on global warming. So much to do. 

 

WE are the worst fans in all if sports. This is no secret. 

To be fair, while the Oilers *in recent history* have been craptacularly bad - so were we for the first several decades of our history.  It wasn't until Pat Quinn dragged the franchise out of the gutter it was in & gave it respectability.  At least the Oilers had some winning history with their Cups.  What did we have?  Always the bridesmaid but never the bride  (82/94/11).

 

Have to give credit to the Griffiths for funding the arena with their own money as well rather than the Oilers owner (who apparently still needed some form of corporate welfare despite having tons of cash).

[VanGnome]

6 minutes ago, AbrasiveAjax said:

The fact that your so matter of fact leaves me humbled in your mighty informed presence. Why are you not an owner, GM? your powers of observation and fact are simply awe inspiring. Your factual statements must be true and correct spoken with such conviction. I now have no doubt, sorry to have questioned your factual statements

 

now if you might have added along the way "in my opinion, the way i see it, I feel that"....................., well that would be different, Opinions as like arseholes we all have one

 

Continue blaming everyone from the owner, management and  down to the Coaching staff, I"m sure the stick boy is screwing up big time.

 

Win as a team, loose as a team, Go Canucks Go

 

Win as a team, lose as a team, yes.

However when, actually you know what? I have better things to do.

 

Torts was the man, and had he stayed on and management listened to him, and ownership hadn't rejected what Benning and Linden probably first told them when they came on board we'd be in a far better situation than we are now.

C'est la vie.

[oldnews]

8 hours ago, stawns said:

is this the same clown that was on between periods that one time?  If so, he clearly has no understanding f the game that he can't read (and cherry pick) about.  Total waste of bandwidth.

yep.

[bertuzzi4eva]

WTF Alf? This is what 1/2 our lineup could very easily end up looking like next year (ages next season). That sure looks like a youth movement to me. And thats not couting a potential high draft pick or another trade. You think Bo's "wasted" when the rebuild is more than 1/2 the team next year?

 

Baer (25)

Boeser (20)

Boucher (23)

Gaunce (23)

Granlund (24)

Horvat (22)

Gudbranson (25)

Hutton (23)

Stecher (23)

Tryamkin (23)

Juolevi (20)

 

Am I missing something ? Has Virtanen been traded ?

[oldnews]

6 hours ago, JamesB said:

Great OP by @LaBamba. This is exactly the kind of analysis the Canucks should be doing but is, I suspect, the kind of thing Benning does not want to be bothered with. He would prefer to convince himself by the "eye test" that the Canucks look competitive.

 

This is a misconception on your part - that the Canucks don't have adept analytics people and that they ignore 'advanced stats.'

 

Wadr, I think Jonathan Wall could skate circles around you and Filipovic.