(Article) Winnipeg Jets timeline led to Linden's dismissal

[JM_]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I can literally hear Ed Willes nasally, whiny voice throughout the entire article. Willes has no clue and is providing no corroborating evidence to back up his claims regarding Linden and his dismissal.

^^

 

Willies knows nothing <Insert dead horse meme here>

[Archie the grim]

It scares me that Benning will be running the show without someone looking over his shoulder. Benning has had way more blunders than wins. I’m not even sure about his supposed drafting expertise. He has had 6 first round picks, I would say 2 good picks and 4 maybes. And so far not much to show for later rounds. Also he has been a failure to sign significant college free agents. Even local players like Schulz and Kerfoot signed elsewhere. He couldn’t even get his nephew to sign here. And his signing of pro free agents is terrible (Erickson) . His handling of Canuck free agents is bad as well Mathias Hamhuis and others. His trading is poor also, can anyone say he has won any trades? Maybe Baertchie, maybe. I think Linden may be optimistic about 4 more years

[PhillipBlunt]

8 minutes ago, Tre Mac said:

I disagree and all you have to do is look at the moves they made(mostly free agent signings) and what Gillis has said in the past about ownership to connect the dots.  And trust me, you'll find out this offseason when they go all in on free agency.  Linden's plan was the right plan, and JB sold him out and will walk the plank in a year.

You disagree that this isn't Ed Willes speculating with no actual evidence to back it up? Unless Linden, Benning, or Aquilini were to come out and agree with what Willes wrote, it's just speculation. Also, his statement on Virtanen and Juolevi is garbage. Jake is coming into his own now, and looking awesome. Juolevi is also going to be a great d-man for the team. Willes using those two as examples of Benning's questionable drafting is weak.

 

That being said, I do think that the best time to tear things down was right after the sweep by San Jose. I wasn't a fan of the Vrbata, Eriksson, Gagner, or Del Zotto signings, but I do like the Beagle, Roussel, and Schaller signings. A team needs some role players to set an example for the young guys coming into the team. Benning realized this and went about doing it.

 

If they do go all in on free agency this summer, I'm fine with that too. The team is on the upswing now.

[ruilin96]

2 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I wonder how the Jets would look had they not fluked out landing the 2nd overall pick in 2016. Just sayin'.

They could still pick someone like Clayton Keller. They would still be in a pretty good position now.

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, xereau said:

This is all just speculation.  But it kind of does make sense, if its true.

Linden was apparently going around the draft for a few years asking various teams' brass for tips and tricks on how to build a franchise.

 

Is this how you build a business at the highest level of an industry?  Go around and openly admit you know squat about being at the top of an industry to your direct competition?

 

I bet this noob behavior, if its actually true, truly pissed Mr. Aquilini right off.

If asking  for advice from professionals in the industry with a track record of success is noob behaviour I dread to see what kind of business you'd run.

 

Linden was always a figurehead.  But even the great Yzerman admits to having contacted Bowman a number of times in his first two years regarding hirings and contracts

[khay]

1 hour ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I wonder how the Jets would look had they not fluked out landing the 2nd overall pick in 2016. Just sayin'.

Still would be a good team. They would have drafted between 6-8th overall, which means they could have picked up Tkachuk, Keller, Segachev, or given how good they were with drafting, they may have caught on to McAvoy's potential.

 

But yeah, with Laine it adds another dimension in their offence. An elite level triggerman that is right handed is quite rare. I can only think of a handful. Luckily, we have one as well. Maybe not quite at the level of Ovi, Stammer but ours is not far behind.

 

[kenhodgejr]

for me it seems realistic that for most of our prospects who are playing well in the CHL, Europe, and College, by the time they are ready to make the AHL, they will still need at least 2 years playing big roles in the AHL before they are NHL ready and then another year or two until they are impactful at the NHL. So in the 3-4 years we will see a lot of our prospects ready to take NHL spots.

 

Forwards        # of Seasons to NHL starting Sept. 2019

Lind                          2                      

Palmu                       2

Dahlen                     1

MacEwen                1

Lockwood               2

Jassek                     2

Madden                   4

Gadjovich                2

 

Defence

Hughes                  0

Juolevi                   1 

Rathbone              3-4

Brassard               3-4

Woo                      3

Brisebois              1

Chatfield               1

Sautner                 1 

McEneny              1 

Utunen                  3-4

 

 

 

 

 

[xereau]

18 minutes ago, Archie the grim said:

It scares me that Benning will be running the show without someone looking over his shoulder. Benning has had way more blunders than wins. I’m not even sure about his supposed drafting expertise. He has had 6 first round picks, I would say 2 good picks and 4 maybes. And so far not much to show for later rounds. Also he has been a failure to sign significant college free agents. Even local players like Schulz and Kerfoot signed elsewhere. He couldn’t even get his nephew to sign here. And his signing of pro free agents is terrible (Erickson) . His handling of Canuck free agents is bad as well Mathias Hamhuis and others. His trading is poor also, can anyone say he has won any trades? Maybe Baertchie, maybe. I think Linden may be optimistic about 4 more years

The Hobey Baker Award winner drafted in the 5th round isn't deep draft success?  Come on...

Granlund for Shinkaruk?  Total win.  Most flexible forward on the team, for a nobody.

Gudbranson for McCann? Total win.  McCann is floundering.  Guddy is showing us why he was picked so high.

Burrow for Dahlen?  Potential core star for a guy that retired 12 months later?  LOL.

Horvat's contract is quickly becoming the top value deal in the whole league.

Benning isn't perfect but come on man...

[Gaudette Celly]

Quote

As for the Canucks, in four more years Bo Horvat will be 27, Virtanen will be 26, Brock Boeser will be 25 and Elias Pettersson and Quinn Hughes will be 23. They could get lucky and win a lottery and some of their prospects in Utica might emerge as difference-makers.

But Linden’s mistake wasn’t identifying four years as a realistic time frame for this roster. It was saying it out loud.

Seven more years to be a contender?

 

Horvat 30

Virtanen 29

Boeser 28

Pettersson 26

Hughes 26

 

Seriously? Even if one thinks 4 is too soon, at best it's somewhere in the middle.  The alternative is that just as they become a contenders it's about time to start moving out the "old vets" like Bo and Jake.

 

We've seen the difference just Pettersson has made, and there are many contemporary examples of how fast teams turn around once their prospects gain traction.  Now watch what happens next year when Hughes and Juolevi come in, plus the possibility of signing a UFA dman, then getting Demko in and up to speed in a year or two.  Then consider "lotto luck", of which we've had none -- even a single win or "lucky" pick would be another big boost.  Four years seems much more realistic than seven.

[Warhippy]

20 minutes ago, Archie the grim said:

It scares me that Benning will be running the show without someone looking over his shoulder. Benning has had way more blunders than wins. I’m not even sure about his supposed drafting expertise. He has had 6 first round picks, I would say 2 good picks and 4 maybes. And so far not much to show for later rounds. Also he has been a failure to sign significant college free agents. Even local players like Schulz and Kerfoot signed elsewhere. He couldn’t even get his nephew to sign here. And his signing of pro free agents is terrible (Erickson) . His handling of Canuck free agents is bad as well Mathias Hamhuis and others. His trading is poor also, can anyone say he has won any trades? Maybe Baertchie, maybe. I think Linden may be optimistic about 4 more years

More...blunders than wins?

 

Aside from the Eirksson signing and possibly the Gudbranson trade.  What blunders are you speaking of?  Please list them

 

His drafting?  I dunno about that, because by the numbers his drafting is actually league leading in the top 5 of the entire NHL in his tenure.  Virtanen, McCann, Forsling all NHL players.  tryamkin will/would be a 100 game NHL player if he returns without question.  Boeser looks like a top 6 player, Gaudette trending upwards very well, Brisebois looks solid.  Juolevi is doing everything right, Lockwood is on fire,  Petterson was just named the unanimous front runner for the calder, Lind and Gadjovich are marinating in the AHL, DiPietro is slated to be one of the starting goalies again for team Canada and Rathbone is no slouch either at this stage.  Without once mentioning what some are calling the steal of the draft in Hughes last year 

 

He is overseeing a very quality crop of home grown, drafted and developed players for the first time in club history and took a bottom 5 prospect pool and has turned it in to a top 5 prospect pool in the league 

 

NCAA players go where the money and ice time is.  Kerfoot was given top dollar and is playing with some brilliant talent that was not on the cancuks last year.  Schulz opted for Edmonton and how'd that work out for him?  His nephew?  Where is he playing again?  Oh yes also Edmonton for top dollar and regular ice time.  Things the canucks could not give him and how's his career projecting?  Out of the three you mentioned Schultz almost flamed out of the league before Pitts obtained him, benning is meh and Kerfoot was almost never going to come here.  Just because an NCAA player is available doesn't mean he's coming to Vancouver.

 

Hamhuis was old and slow, he handcuffed Benning by saying he was coming back here.  Dallas did Vancouver dirty with that deal and lol, look what it cost them?  Sure we got nothing for Hamhuis but Dallas coughed up big anyways and got nowhere for it.  Matthias was and IS still soft as butter for a big boy.  That shoulder injury obviously gave the team pause and Benning didn't want to give him term.  Big deal.  Aside from The Eriksson signing everything he has done has actually turned out pretty well in terms of signs and trades.  Unless you don't like Dahlen, Motte, Goldobin and Leipsic.  Oh or the picks he obtained which turned in to some pretty promising draft picks

 

His trading has been fine.  Aside from Forsling and maybe Gudbranson he has effectively won most of his trades.  Unless you want Shinkaruk back that is.

 

Honestly.  if you're going to spout the same tired crap we've effectively disproven now about 3 dozen times on this board just save yourself the trouble.  We get it.  You're looking at the RIGHT NOW and you don't like the standings and 3 weeks ago you were saying plan the parade route like a deluded Leafs fan.  Some of us know where this team is, where it's headed and what the timeline really looks like.  So unless you have an original argument just save yourself the time and don't bother typing it out

[khay]

1 minute ago, Hutton Wink said:

Seven more years to be a contender?

 

Horvat 30

Virtanen 29

Boeser 28

Pettersson 26

Hughes 26

 

Seriously? Even if one thinks 4 is too soon, at best it's somewhere in the middle.  The alternative is that just as they become a contenders it's about time to start moving out the "old vets" like Bo and Jake.

 

We've seen the difference just Pettersson has made, and there are many contemporary examples of how fast teams turn around once their prospects gain traction.  Now watch what happens next year when Hughes and Juolevi come in, plus the possibility of signing a UFA dman, then getting Demko in and up to speed in a year or two.  Then consider "lotto luck", of which we've had none -- even a single win or "lucky" pick would be another big boost.  Four years seems much more realistic than seven.

I think 4 years projection to be accurate assuming we don't get lucky and 7 seems ridiculous (although I don't get where you got 7 years from). If we get lucky along the way and win a lottery or draft a top 3 talent, it could be shorter than 4 years. And to be honest, I think that's what happened in Winnipeg. If they didn't get Laine, they are still a good team but they may get there one or two years later. By then, Wheeler and Byfuglien may not be as effective.

 

The thing is, as long as you have a GM and scouting department that finds you Boeser in the late 1st or Gaudette in 5th round, you can phase out some of these older players without much of a problem (as long as you don't get too attached to the players or you sign them to impossible to trade contracts). When Horvat hits 30, Boeser, EP, and Hughes are still in their prime. If the we continue to draft well, and if Horvat has indeed peaked out early at 30, we will be able to phase him out and insert a new player in his place. 

 

 

[Tre Mac]

3 minutes ago, Archie the grim said:

It scares me that Benning will be running the show without someone looking over his shoulder. Benning has had way more blunders than wins. I’m not even sure about his supposed drafting expertise. He has had 6 first round picks, I would say 2 good picks and 4 maybes. And so far not much to show for later rounds. Also he has been a failure to sign significant college free agents. Even local players like Schulz and Kerfoot signed elsewhere. He couldn’t even get his nephew to sign here. And his signing of pro free agents is terrible (Erickson) . His handling of Canuck free agents is bad as well Mathias Hamhuis and others. His trading is poor also, can anyone say he has won any trades? Maybe Baertchie, maybe. I think Linden may be optimistic about 4 more years

Well the Burrows and Hansen trades are absolute wins, even if Dahlen doesn't pan out.  I agree with most of your post though, I think he gets fired after next season tbh. 

 

2 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

You disagree that this isn't Ed Willes speculating with no actual evidence to back it up? Unless Linden, Benning, or Aquilini were to come out and agree with what Willes wrote, it is just speculation.

 

Unless he bugged the room how is he suppose to provide actual evidence?  He isn't the first to report about this:

 

Quote

Friedman continued: “I can’t tell you with 100 per cent, black-and-white certainty, but I think what happened was they had their meeting, Trevor said, ‘I think we should do it this way,’ there was pushback wherever it came from and they said, ‘No,’ and ultimately I think ownership decided, ‘We could do it this way,’ and Trevor said ‘I don’t support that,’ and ownership said ‘Well, we’re going to do it this way.’ …

“I think it comes down to a point where if you’re not going to support it, you don’t want to be there, and if you’re not going to support it, ownership probably doesn’t want you there. So, people can decide what that means but I do think both [sides] looked at each other and said, ‘This is not going to work.’”

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/may-trevor-linden-leaving-canucks-meets-eye/

 

I am not going to blame the media on this one, if this is untrue than that's on management and ownership. 

[MattJVD]

Seven years for the total rebuild, not 7 years starting summer 2018. It took the Jets 7 years after drafting Scheifele to make the playoffs. So I guess Linden was saying the "official" rebuild started after our 2015 playoff loss and drafting Boeser, so it would take 4 more years after 2018 to make 7 in total.

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, Tre Mac said:

Unless he bugged the room how is he suppose to provide actual evidence?  He isn't the first to report about this:

If he's a reporter, then actual evidence should be paramount to his job.

1 minute ago, Tre Mac said:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/may-trevor-linden-leaving-canucks-meets-eye/

 

I am not going to blame the media on this one, if this is untrue than that's on management and ownership. 

If what Friedman and Willes are "reporting" is untrue, it's on management and ownership? Uh.....

[Tre Mac]

17 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Seven more years to be a contender?

 

Horvat 30

Virtanen 29

Boeser 28

Pettersson 26

Hughes 26

 

Seriously? Even if one thinks 4 is too soon, at best it's somewhere in the middle.  The alternative is that just as they become a contenders it's about time to start moving out the "old vets" like Bo and Jake.

 

We've seen the difference just Pettersson has made, and there are many contemporary examples of how fast teams turn around once their prospects gain traction.  Now watch what happens next year when Hughes and Juolevi come in, plus the possibility of signing a UFA dman, then getting Demko in and up to speed in a year or two.  Then consider "lotto luck", of which we've had none -- even a single win or "lucky" pick would be another big boost.  Four years seems much more realistic than seven.

Where you getting seven years?  Linden said four more years around the draft meeting(and it'll be four more years regardless what JB does) not seven years from now.  And it was JB 'retooling' (perhaps from FA impatience)that set the rebuild back a couple of years in the first place. 

[aGENT]

3 hours ago, Fanuck said:

Translation - Linden is gone because Aquaman had no patience.  

 

3 hours ago, Tre Mac said:

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/ed-willes-canucks-can-learn-from-the-jets-flightpath-to-contender

 

 

I thought this was a good article that illustrates my utter disdain that Linden is no longer with the franchise, if it wasn't for EP40 I don't think I'd watch any of the games. 

This:

 

2 hours ago, RogersTowell said:

Oh look, another muck raking article attacking ownership.

 

"This time frame wasn’t consistent with ownership’s view of their investment. Linden was dismissed"

 

Note the careful wording.  No therefore Linden was dismissed.  Dismissed, not fired.  Weasel words.  Another hack journalist with no real article so he posts speculation so that it looks like opinion in a legal sense, but comes off as having inside information to the public.  Nothing to see here, no reason to debate.  Just another attempt to stir the pot during a few games in the L column.

 

Another hack job of speculation with no real evidence or insight.

 

I can't believe some of you are still falling for this snake oil crap from our media. Get a clue.

[Tre Mac]

4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Get a clue.

Meh, I'd say the same thing to you. 

[aGENT]

22 minutes ago, Tre Mac said:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/may-trevor-linden-leaving-canucks-meets-eye/

 

Friedman continued: “I can’t tell you with 100 per cent, black-and-white certainty, but I think what happened was they had their meeting, Trevor said, ‘I think we should do it this way,’ there was pushback wherever it came from and they said, ‘No,’ and ultimately I think ownership decided, ‘We could do it this way,’ and Trevor said ‘I don’t support that,’ and ownership said ‘Well, we’re going to do it this way.’ …

“I think it comes down to a point where if you’re not going to support it, you don’t want to be there, and if you’re not going to support it, ownership probably doesn’t want you there. So, people can decide what that means but I do think both [sides] looked at each other and said, ‘This is not going to work.’”

You do realize that nowhere in there does EF actually say what the two sides didn't 'see eye to eye' on? THAT'S the important part. It's not some great mystery they obviously disagreed on 'something'.

 

Maybe Trev wanted to hurry up the rebuild? Maybe Trev wanted to bring the twins back? Who the hell knows? Point is, baseless media speculating on the 'what' is not evidence to anything. Least of all anything to earn your ire.

 

Don't feed the media trolls.

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, Tre Mac said:

Meh, I'd say the same thing to you. 

You could. But it would be just as ridiculous as listening to the baseless blathering of idiots who have their own interests (clicks) at heart over actually informing you.

[Duodenum]

2 hours ago, xereau said:

This is all just speculation.  But it kind of does make sense, if its true.

Linden was apparently going around the draft for a few years asking various teams' brass for tips and tricks on how to build a franchise.

 

Is this how you build a business at the highest level of an industry?  Go around and openly admit you know squat about being at the top of an industry to your direct competition?

 

I bet this noob behavior, if its actually true, truly pissed Mr. Aquilini right off.

Learning from others is a huge part of leadership.