Jim Benning Proved Me Wrong

[spook007]

9 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Good take.   And for anyone complaining about our “expensive vet” give your head a shake - there is a two year window IF you manage to draft a couple stars back-back that you can load up with playoff type warriors that are often  huge upgrades on the cheap replacements that come later.   Just ask TO or half the teams that didn’t make it.   Quality depth matters too.  Nobody should be complaining about Sutter, Roussel or Beagle.   First in face offs ... wonder why?  Stupid.   We wouldn’t have made it last MIN without them.   Because of the team JB built we actually have a rare opportunity to get a little wider window early on - something three teams have managed since the cap started.  CAR, CHI, PIT once each.   The ELC window is usually closed for most teams.   Not us. 
 

EDM had one crack at it with McDavid - and then had to wait until now - that’s more the norm then not the norm.

 

Plus because we’ve made it three rounds with this team these “expensive “ vets won’t be nearly as hard to move as people think.   In other words we have an exaggerated level of cap issues.   Think things are hairy now wait until we lose half the depth - better hope the drafting still matches up or things could get ugly the same way it went for EDM.     Think it will be fine.   Do believe that JB staggered his contracts with one more year of waiting in mind (or down year), the arrival of EP and having QHs in the wings changed that.   Still rather have the minor inconvenience created by it for 16 plus games of postseason.   Like losing Leivo, maybe Roussel...that’s it whoopie do. 

Spot on...

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, peaches5 said:

I don't know what game you want by Demko tracked the puck through screens and made everything look easy even though they were incredibly difficult saves. Just because Markstrom gets out of position and makes some "big" save doesn't mean he has played better. Markstrom has looked been all over the map these playoffs. He has been very inconsistent. You do not need two goalies to win that is ridiculous to say you need 2 goalies. When has 2 goalies worked in the playoffs? One always gets all the games.

 

Shea Theodore was the cost for The Ducks to keep their players. I am not giving up Shea Theodore quality talent to keep Demko when you can just let Markstrom walk and save a ton of cap as well. 

If Sutter scores a hat trick next game I suppose we should re-sign him to a flat cap hit too.  Get real it’s one game.   Demko proved he wasn’t ready when Markstrom went down - even adding TT couldn’t save the season.   Yes he’s got potential, but he’s no Vasilevsky, Samsanov, or Carter Hart.   Not saying Demko couldn’t do it and it’s a valid consideration.   But it’s a very risky play - this team needs a top 10 goalie or we’d be wasting a good part of their window.   Comes down to Markstroms demands.   Maybe if he plays again and is lights out we can get something for Demko too.   

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

When I hear people complaining about the bottom six nobody ever bothers to include who Benning should have put in there instead and for how much. When Sutter was brought in he was an upgrade over Bonino and was capable of playing higher-up in the lineup. We had zero internal options or expendable assets to aquire a true 2c without setting back the rebuild.

Beagle at 3 million is fine and again we had nonody in the system and what would we have saved by signing a worse player? A million? Rouselle was signed like the other 2 as a placeholder and at the time he was better than what we had in the system and let's face it, nobody expected the team to be winning 3 rounds and 2 wins away from the conference finals this soon just like nobody was prepared for the cap to stay flat when it was expected to go up as much as 7 million.  Without any moves other than Ferland going on LTIR, Benning still has 23 million in cap, if he signs all 3 ufas and no contracts are moved it might cost us Stech and possibly Jake but with them expected to get 3 mill each in arbitration, is that such a bad thing? I don't see Either as part of the future with guys like Podz, Hogs, Woo Rathbone Joulevi etc most likely on the roster the next 2 seasons.  

Yep.  This also goes for Gudranson,  Vey, Bear, Del Zotto etc.   We had zero in our pool capable of coming up at the time and he had to ice something.   Most of us loved the Gudbranson trade at the time - exactly what we needed.   And we ended up getting Pearson in the end an upgrade on McCaan for sure.    Hindsight warriors often don’t take context into consideration.   LE is for sure his biggest gaffe.   At the time we needed to bottom out and we did for three years.   I’m stoked he didn’t hit on all those guys.   Do people honestly think that Gagne and Del Zotto we’re here to help us climb the standings?  That’s hilarious if they do. 

[Duodenum]

4 hours ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

When I hear people complaining about the bottom six nobody ever bothers to include who Benning should have put in there instead and for how much. When Sutter was brought in he was an upgrade over Bonino and was capable of playing higher-up in the lineup. We had zero internal options or expendable assets to aquire a true 2c without setting back the rebuild.

Beagle at 3 million is fine and again we had nonody in the system and what would we have saved by signing a worse player? A million? Rouselle was signed like the other 2 as a placeholder and at the time he was better than what we had in the system and let's face it, nobody expected the team to be winning 3 rounds and 2 wins away from the conference finals this soon just like nobody was prepared for the cap to stay flat when it was expected to go up as much as 7 million.  Without any moves other than Ferland going on LTIR, Benning still has 23 million in cap, if he signs all 3 ufas and no contracts are moved it might cost us Stech and possibly Jake but with them expected to get 3 mill each in arbitration, is that such a bad thing? I don't see Either as part of the future with guys like Podz, Hogs, Woo Rathbone Joulevi etc most likely on the roster the next 2 seasons.  

Ahhh Ferland, I had forgotten about him. More dead cap space there. There's no guarantee he's going to go on the LTIR list for the full season. Another silly long-term signing.

 

Let's not forget the Sam Gagner signing as well which resulted in a trade and buyout and more dead space on Ryan Spooner.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Duodenum

[spook007]

9 minutes ago, Duodenum said:

Ahhh Ferland, I had forgotten about him. More dead cap space there. There's no guarantee he's going to go on the LTIR list for the full season. Another silly long-term signing.

 

Let's not forget the Sam Gagner signing as well which resulted in a trade and buyout and more dead space on Ryan Spooner.

Why was Ferland a silly long term signing?

He represents something we’ve been severely lacking this play offs. 

[Duodenum]

4 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Why was Ferland a silly long term signing?

He represents something we’ve been severely lacking this play offs. 

Injury issues and major concussions prior to signing. Play had fallen off in Carolina. Basically, we bought a high risk, injury prone player and are paying for it now with him being unable to stay in the lineup. 

[nergish]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

If Sutter scores a hat trick next game I suppose we should re-sign him to a flat cap hit too.  Get real it’s one game.   Demko proved he wasn’t ready when Markstrom went down - even adding TT couldn’t save the season.   Yes he’s got potential, but he’s no Vasilevsky, Samsanov, or Carter Hart.   Not saying Demko couldn’t do it and it’s a valid consideration.   But it’s a very risky play - this team needs a top 10 goalie or we’d be wasting a good part of their window.   Comes down to Markstroms demands.   Maybe if he plays again and is lights out we can get something for Demko too.   

Demko is in the exact same tier as Samsonov...

He has flourished at every single level, all he’s missing are more reps at the NHL level.

 

We developed a talented young goalie beautifully, but it’s not his fault the older guy in the system is a late-bloomer and a top-5 netminder. 
 

Why are you trying to reduce a prospect down to a week or two of play at the end of the season to argue that one good playoff game says nothing?

Edited September 3, 2020 by nergish

[messier's_elbow]

Guys over at HF still saying Benning sucks. Benning getting the last laugh.

[spook007]

13 minutes ago, nergish said:

Demko is in the exact same tier as Samsonov...

He has flourished at every single level, all he’s missing are more reps at the NHL level.

 

We developed a talented young goalie beautifully, but it’s not his fault the older guy in the system is a late-bloomer and a top-5 netminder. 
 

Why are you trying to reduce a prospect down to a week or two of play at the end of the season to argue that one good playoff game says nothing?

Sorry Negish, but don’t think anybody is trying to down Demko.

On the very contrary... What he Did in game 5 was fantastic, and if he can continue this level of play, he will be challenging for the starter position..... 
I think we all see him as a future starter. Problem is, do we protect him ( maybe make a deal with Seattle), do we trade him, or do we trade Marky? 
If Demko ends up needing longer ( maybe a late bloomer like Markstrom) we may be wasting some of EP and QH’s Window...are we prepared to take that chance?
 

[spook007]

2 hours ago, Duodenum said:

Injury issues and major concussions prior to signing. Play had fallen off in Carolina. Basically, we bought a high risk, injury prone player and are paying for it now with him being unable to stay in the lineup. 

Fair enough... it was a gamble. 
Most fans were happy to see Benning take the chance. 

[MrCanuck94]

5 hours ago, Duodenum said:

Injury issues and major concussions prior to signing. Play had fallen off in Carolina. Basically, we bought a high risk, injury prone player and are paying for it now with him being unable to stay in the lineup. 

How is that high risk..? The only difference between not signing him and having him on LTIR is a contract spot. Pretty good gamble to take.

[iceman64]

22 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Yeah, Green definitely doesn't have the team overachieving in the playoffs.

It's actually not... Might be hard to fathom but it's true. We could get more out of certain players but the biggest part of coaching is in a player's mind and that's the hardest thing for every player to be there equally.. we're still not there yet... Then it gels properly, 4 lines rolling and doing great, not having to rely on stellar goaltending, or D and bottom six HAVING to contribute.. 

 That's a pretty good mix for a Stanley Cup champ, everyone just does their job perfectly or near.. we'll get there though, our bottom six no matter how much overpaid is a developing ground on ice because we have experienced guys already there helping mentor, so are they really THAT overpaid? In the short run, yes but in the long run? Nope.. 2 more seasons we should be almost there and will be maturing together so everyone will play for each other, not just paychecks.. 

 Looking forward to that! And dare I say an identity for the first time since it got broken in 2011, THAT will be a huge relief

[Duodenum]

3 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said:

How is that high risk..? The only difference between not signing him and having him on LTIR is a contract spot. Pretty good gamble to take.

When he's not on LTIR, there needs to be cap space to fit him into the line-up. There hasn't been any word that he's going on LTIR yet so that's 3.5 million that needs to be set aside and can't be used. 

[King Heffy]

6 hours ago, spook007 said:

Fair enough... it was a gamble. 
Most fans were happy to see Benning take the chance. 

Benning got a pretty good price as a result of the injury history.  We needed his skillset and guys like that don't come cheap.

[Gator]

On 9/2/2020 at 12:29 PM, Darius said:

Benning is not perfect, but hes far from the incompetent guy some try to portray him as (see HF Boards Canucks for thousands of posts regarding this matter)

 

The arguments can go back and forth all day.  At the end of the day I think that for the first time in 50 years this org has excellent young players in all of the critical positions 1c, 1d, goal and 2c.   This is mostly due to how this org has drafted in the last 6-7 years. Its like having the rubic's cube all lined up in the critical positions and now all you need is a few complimentary moves to finish the puzzle.  In my mind there are 2-3 holes left to fill and this team will be a force for years to come.

 

 

 

 

Well Demko got the franchise goalie hole filled 

[stawns]

1 hour ago, Brock Botanen said:

Well Demko got the franchise goalie hole filled 

[CallAfterLife]

6 hours ago, Duodenum said:

When he's not on LTIR, there needs to be cap space to fit him into the line-up. There hasn't been any word that he's going on LTIR yet so that's 3.5 million that needs to be set aside and can't be used. 

Ferland's case is a wider issue that needs to be addressed by the NHL. When a player is struggling with something so amorphous like concussion symptoms and things like pride and money are motivating them to play despite the risk that's unfair to the player and the team that signs them. 

 

Despite the issues with Ferland, I still think it was a decent signing because's he's the type of player that can play up and down the lineup. Despite his personality he's not exactly a meathead when it comes to hockey. He's got an IQ for the game that allows him to be effective with Pettersson or Beagle. 

 

And I again want to tip my hate to Benning. Game 6 tonight was amazing. Vegas absolutely dominated but the team held firm and competed. 

 

6 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Benning got a pretty good price as a result of the injury history.  We needed his skillset and guys like that don't come cheap.

If Ferland stayed healthy and produced around the 40 point mark everyone would be calling him a steal at $3.5 million. 

Edited September 4, 2020 by CallAfterLife

[The Colt 45s]

A strategy for the expansion draft could be as follows: Sign Markstrom, but protect Demko.  So the issue becomes whether Seattle would be willing to pay the price for Markstrom's contract.

[Maginator]

6 hours ago, The Colt 45s said:

A strategy for the expansion draft could be as follows: Sign Markstrom, but protect Demko.  So the issue becomes whether Seattle would be willing to pay the price for Markstrom's contract.

But why would Markstrom willingly sign here, knowing there's a possibility of having to pack up and move to Seattle in a year? If hes exposed its almost guarenteed Seattle takes him. He is clearly a sought after goalie.

 

If I'm in Markstroms shoes I dont want to have to move in a year. I want to sign somewhere - knowing this is it. This is where I can put down some roots. Hes a 30 year old man, I'm sure he wants to buy a home, have kids etc. 

 

Also, he's a good enough player to warrant a NTC or NMC on his next contract.

[alt kilgore]

8 hours ago, The Colt 45s said:

A strategy for the expansion draft could be as follows: Sign Markstrom, but protect Demko.  So the issue becomes whether Seattle would be willing to pay the price for Markstrom's contract.

 

2 hours ago, Maginator said:

But why would Markstrom willingly sign here, knowing there's a possibility of having to pack up and move to Seattle in a year? If hes exposed its almost guarenteed Seattle takes him. He is clearly a sought after goalie.

 

If I'm in Markstroms shoes I dont want to have to move in a year. I want to sign somewhere - knowing this is it. This is where I can put down some roots. Hes a 30 year old man, I'm sure he wants to buy a home, have kids etc. 

 

Also, he's a good enough player to warrant a NTC or NMC on his next contract.

This may be the best strategy.

 

Why would Markstrom sign here?  (even if not protected)  Why not?   If its a good deal, 7 x 4 or something.  He is looking out for his family more than anything at this point.  And Seattle is not a far move. He'd get to play in the time zone he is adjusted to, plus he'd be the instant starter on another Bettman Frankenstein team. An instant contender.  It would also be a bit of a gamble for Seattle to bite on Marky at that contract, at his age. They'd probably be more interested in a younger talent like Demko.