Ossi Vaananen Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Friesen is ready and better suited than Vey for 4C duty on the Canucks and should be the first callup (over Jones) for an injured centre...until January or so when I expect Cassels passing skills to give him the edge for a call up. These guys nearly won the Calder Cup last year and Friesen is no slouch, less offense than Vey or Cassels but better on D. than Vey and better on FO's (Cassels may be as good on FO's) ... we have 3 capable bottom 6 centres without Jones in my opinion. I have to disagree with the hype surrounding Friesen. I watched every Utica game this past season, and another dozen in the regular season. He's not as great as people make him out to be. He's a great energy guy, his scoring isn't that great, and he's well under 6 feet. I don't see him as an NHLer, though he is a great guy to set the pace for prospects developing in Utica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nergish Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 Let's wait and see if he plays the defensive side of the puck too before we say that. The recent Cup winners have number one centres that play a complete 100 foot game, and sacrifice offence to do so. One way offensive centres are winning nothing. Give me Bo's two way game. Cassels game is perfect for winning, as shown in his Mem Cup victory. He outplayed MacDavid on the way there, and LD while there. Although, LD isn't much. McD is on another level man. Lots of kids make it look easy in juniors, sure... But McD made it look like he was playing a different sport than the other kids half the time. Watch him put up 90 points... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 McD is on another level man. Lots of kids make it look easy in juniors, sure... But McD made it look like he was playing a different sport than the other kids half the time. Watch him put up 90 points... I think we agree to a point. He will put up points. The big question is his lack of defensive awareness. Can he be a two way player? Top number one centres who win Cups, play both ways. Cassels plays the two hundred food game. MacDavid does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I think we agree to a point. He will put up points. The big question is his lack of defensive awareness. Can he be a two way player? Top number one centres who win Cups, play both ways. Cassels plays the two hundred food game. MacDavid does not. I'd have to say that McDavid's two-way game is under-rated because of his gawdy offensive stats. His forte and calling card is still his offense. I liken McDavid to Sidney Crosby -- Crosby had sick offensive numbers and was known for his offensive game before coming into the NHL, and though he's no Jonathan Toews when it comes down to a 200' game, Crosby is more than adequate. Just crystal balling right now, but I would bet McDavid will be fine in all two of the three zones of the ice, while being exceptional in the third zone. Cassels on the other hand, was outstanding in 2 of the 3 zones, while being pretty good in the o-zone at the junior level. IMO, McDavid's future is somewhere in the line of a Sidney Crosby, while Cole Cassels future is somewhere in the lines of a Dave Bolland. As much as I like Cassels, I know who I'd rather have on my roster or depth chart if given the choice between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I have to disagree with the hype surrounding Friesen. I watched every Utica game this past season, and another dozen in the regular season. He's not as great as people make him out to be. He's a great energy guy, his scoring isn't that great, and he's well under 6 feet. I don't see him as an NHLer, though he is a great guy to set the pace for prospects developing in Utica. Be great if Friesen became for the Canucks what Andrew Shaw, his OHL teammate, has become for the 'hawks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycho_Path Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 You'd have to be a moron to not want mcdavid over Cassels. Cassels has the drive to win you games, but McDavid has the offensive talent and drive to win you more. Top tier teams have both types of players, or players that play both roles (Toews/Kopitar) Still none of that really matters when you don't have a stud D-man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 You'd have to be a moron to not want mcdavid over Cassels. Cassels has the drive to win you games, but McDavid has the offensive talent and drive to win you more. Top tier teams have both types of players, or players that play both roles (Toews/Kopitar) Still none of that really matters when you don't have a stud D-man I think we want a MacDavid crossed with Cassels. Then you've got the two way guy, who gets big points. And yes, we need that elusive elite D we've never had:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spotted Zebra Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 I think we agree to a point. He will put up points. The big question is his lack of defensive awareness. Can he be a two way player? Top number one centres who win Cups, play both ways. Cassels plays the two hundred food game. MacDavid does not. What is it with you and defensive awareness? McDavid is going to be star in this league, not because he can shut down Getzlaf, or Tavares or take your pick. He is going to be a star in the league because he can outscore them. Not every player has to have this great sense of defensive awareness you speak of all the time, I think you're so infactuated with the Toews, and the Bergerons of the world, you forget that they had outstanding offensive talent surrounding them. Would Chicago have won without Kane playing alongside Toews, I would say no, but I guess we are about to find out. It's all fine and dandy to have your Cole Cassels gritty type players on your team, in fact you need them to succeed, but without a gambreaker or star offensive talent, you're going nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 What is it with you and defensive awareness? McDavid is going to be star in this league, not because he can shut down Getzlaf, or Tavares or take your pick. He is going to be a star in the league because he can outscore them. Not every player has to have this great sense of defensive awareness you speak of all the time, I think you're so infactuated with the Toews, and the Bergerons of the world, you forget that they had outstanding offensive talent surrounding them. Would Chicago have won without Kane playing alongside Toews, I would say no, but I guess we are about to find out. It's all fine and dandy to have your Cole Cassels gritty type players on your team, in fact you need them to succeed, but without a gambreaker or star offensive talent, you're going nowhere. The definition of star is too often placed on offence. Two way players are the true stars, and we see with the Bergeron, Towes, Datsuyk, and Kopitar type players that these guys are getting recognized. Cups have always been won by teams with these players leading the charge. Even the Great One followed Messier to his Cups. The Oilers won another Cup after Gretzky left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nave Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Excquezze me?...aren't you squeezing Cassels? ...he is around 190 Lbs. or more now and McD. is maybe 195 or so. He is listed at 176 on a bunch of sites. The highest I've seen him listed is 183. McDavid is 195. My understanding was that Cassels has space to fill out, but has not fully matured. If he is 190 now, that is impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Can't believe that we're compering McDavid and Cassels.... lol... Also, I wouldn't be so quick to say that McDavid is gonna hit the ground running. NHL is a huge step up from the WHL, and he's gonna be with the Oilers and in the West no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nave Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 The definition of star is too often placed on offence. Two way players are the true stars, and we see with the Bergeron, Towes, Datsuyk, and Kopitar type players that these guys are getting recognized. Cups have always been won by teams with these players leading the charge. Even the Great One followed Messier to his Cups. The Oilers won another Cup after Gretzky left. Gretzky was actually not as bad defensively as some say. He was almost always on the penalty kill. Very good at taking away passing lanes, although he could have been better at stick checking, and did not have the size to be physical. Saying he followed Messier, though, is wrong. There is no way you'd want Cassels over McDavid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on the cycle Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Can't believe that we're compering McDavid and Cassels.... lol... Also, I wouldn't be so quick to say that McDavid is gonna hit the ground running. NHL is a huge step up from the WHL, and he's gonna be with the Oilers and in the West no less. You mean OHL right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven pounds soft Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 The definition of star is too often placed on offence. Two way players are the true stars, and we see with the Bergeron, Towes, Datsuyk, and Kopitar type players that these guys are getting recognized. Cups have always been won by teams with these players leading the charge. Even the Great One followed Messier to his Cups. The Oilers won another Cup after Gretzky left. That's a good point. Considering we have a bunch of two way studs coming up in Horvat , McCann , Gaunce and our boy Cassels the future is looking good. Though. One would think that even if Conner Mcjesus's defensive game ain't the best , with his athleticism , speed, and vision it shouldn't be a flaw in his game by any means and one on one battles will be very difficult against him. And don't forget that old saying , the best defense is good offence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Linden Vey is extremely under rated on these boards. . I get it , Cassels is the shiny new toy but to say Cassels has a bigger future than Vey is ridiculous. Vey was more than a point per game player in the AHL. Think about that for a second and recollect how hard guys like Shinkaruk , Baertschi etc was finding the AHL. His 18-19 yr old year in the WHL he scored 46 goals in 68 games. Insane. Dude is only 24 yrs old and has proven himself in every level of hockey and is trying to evolve in the NHL yet we place someone who is accomplished in JR on a stacked team above Linden Vey. Ease up Drafted him 2 years ago. Hardly a "new toy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spotted Zebra Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 The definition of star is too often placed on offence. Two way players are the true stars, and we see with the Bergeron, Towes, Datsuyk, and Kopitar type players that these guys are getting recognized. Cups have always been won by teams with these players leading the charge. Even the Great One followed Messier to his Cups. The Oilers won another Cup after Gretzky left. It's one thing to be a good two way player, hell there are many good two way players in the league, what separates Toews and the others you mentioned is their ability to put up OFFENCE to go with that. If they had their same defensive awareness, but only put up 20-30 points, what seperates them from your run of the mill third and fourth liners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Being an extremely good offensive centerman - generally - makes a center very good at defense. The best defense is have the puck in the offensive zone. Comparing Cassels to McDavid at this point is just crazy. Cassels will be considered a success if he can play over 200 games in a bottom six role. If McDavid only achieved that he would be viewed as a colossal failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I'm disagreeing with what you say about Vey. My point stays the same though. He's only going to be successful if in the top six. Cassels just has what teams want from their fourth line centres already. Vey is a very easy player to play against. Cassels is not. In fact Cassels has a nasty edge, that works extremely well against top centre. Just ask LD and MacDavid how they enjoyed matching up against Cassels? I agree with all of the posters who say that Vey could be the biggest surprise of the coming season. You do have a point about him having a top 6 skill set and he doesn't have the physical attributes to play bottom 6. Having said that, he is down the depth chart behind Sedin, Sutter and Horvat so 4C is his only option to start this season. Longer term, post Sedin, Vey will be up against the grittier Cassels for 4C, or McCann for 2C. Unless we see great improvement, or a shift to wing, Vey could be trade bait in a couple of years. It remains to be seen how long it will take Cassels to make the NHL so in the meantime 4C is Vey's to lose and Vey will be a transition player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I agree with all of the posters who say that Vey could be the biggest surprise of the coming season. You do have a point about him having a top 6 skill set and he doesn't have the physical attributes to play bottom 6. Having said that, he is down the depth chart behind Sedin, Sutter and Horvat so 4C is his only option to start this season. Longer term, post Sedin, Vey will be up against the grittier Cassels for 4C, or McCann for 2C. Unless we see great improvement, or a shift to wing, Vey could be trade bait in a couple of years. It remains to be seen how long it will take Cassels to make the NHL so in the meantime 4C is Vey's to lose and Vey will be a transition player. Its also worth mentioning; we have two pretty bloody good defensive centre's in Horvat & Sutter. I personally don't mind the context of a 2knd ''offensive'' centre. Offering us Hank & Vey to drive offense & Sutter plus Horvat to anchor lockdown duties. The question becomes complimentary Wingers? Crafting the lines to suit defensive or offensive roles. And distributing minutes... The 4 line team versus who is 2C, 3C, 4C has merit in this conversation. Below the 4th line could easily, and would probably, see more minutes than the 3rd. And allow the 3rd sheltered minutes. But still. The question is, is this a way we could deploy Vey, give him offensive wingmen? Danny / Hank / Vrbata Higgins / Sutter / Burrows Baertschi / Vey / Virtanen The kid line! Prust / Horvat / Hansen Dorsett Not endorsing this line up. Just asking the question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two drink minimum Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I think we agree to a point. He will put up points. The big question is his lack of defensive awareness. Can he be a two way player? Top number one centres who win Cups, play both ways. Cassels plays the two hundred food game. MacDavid does not.McDavid is excellent defensively. He will do more than enough in his own end to satisfy your feckless opinion of him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.