CanadianRugby Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, 2011 said: Ok, I looked back and re-read the 1st 2 pages. NOT 1 PERSON SAID THEY WOULD RATHER PICK NYLANDER. Sure Ehlers, Dal Colle, and Ritchie came up, but the point is; You cant go around telling other people to go look back at this or that,when you didn't do it yourself. I actually said "Vancouver took Virtanen, if you scroll back to the start of this thread you'll see that most people that disagreed with the pick wanted Nylander or Ehlers." I exaggerated that most people didn't like the pick, but a lot didn't. The people that didn't like it mostly wanted Nylander or Ehlers, with some wanting Ritchie. Edited May 23, 2017 by CanadianRugby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said: I actually said "Vancouver took Virtanen, if you scroll back to the start of this thread you'll see that most people that disagreed with the pick wanted Nylander or Ehlers." I exaggerated that most people didn't like the pick, but a lot didn't. The people that didn't like it mostly wanted Nylander or Ehlers, with some wanting Ritchie. Can't go back, regardless. we have Jake and Gudbranson (via trade) from 2014 round one. Considering how nasty playoff hockey is, maybe we need those two big boppers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 14 hours ago, Alflives said: Can't go back, regardless. we have Jake and Gudbranson (via trade) from 2014 round one. Considering how nasty playoff hockey is, maybe we need those two big boppers? You have to get to the playoffs first. Saying that Virtanen & Gudbranson can be physical is putting lipstick on a pig, they both need to be more than just physical for that draft/trade to be a success. You can sign physical players that don't score or play good D in every offseason, you don't need to draft them 6th overall or give up what we gave up for Gudbranson. I hope Virtanen "gets it" sooner or later and that Gudbranson proves to be able to play top 4 well. This team needs a ton of improvement and Virtanen/Gudbranson are definitely big parts of what needs to go right. Edited May 23, 2017 by CanadianRugby 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 1 minute ago, CanadianRugby said: You have to get to the playoffs first. Saying that Virtanen & Gudbranson can be physical is putting lipstick on a pig, they both need to be more than just physical for that sign/trade to be a success. You can sign physical players that don't score or play good D in every offseason, you don't need to draft them 6th overall or give up what we gave up for Gudbranson. I hope Virtanen "gets it" sooner or later and that Gudbranson proves to be able to play top 4 well. This team needs a ton of improvement and Virtanen/Gudbranson are definitely big parts of what needs to go right. I agree a team can sign boppers in the summer from the UFA crowd, but it's rare you can sign a top four Dman and a top six forward, who both can bop. Guddy already proved his worth (when not injured) with Florida. And we have been teased by a fit Jake seeing what he can do. I think both these guys are going to play serious and effective minutes for us, while providing much needed toughness to our core group. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: How can you sit there and say that Virtanen doesn't struggle when it comes to the mental side of the game, but then you are over in the draft thread telling people who you think we should draft? Hockey IQ is the number one thing you should be looking for in a young player. You and a few others are guilty of this.. He doesn't process the game well at all and it is so painfully obvious. So don't accuse people of being stat watchers when they can simply find a stream online and watch him play. The shoulder surgery and not being able to stay in shape hasn't helped either. "Nylander's game won't translate to North America" ... LOL Didn't actually write any of that. And you wonder why you get -'d. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: You didn't write the part about Nylander, I didn't mean to make it look like you did but you did say "Virtanen is someone who possesses average hockey IQ" I get -d cause this forum is filled with a bunch of grumpy old men who don't like being proved wrong. A bunch of grumpy old men who have never actually played the game giving someone a - is the last act of a desperate man. Go ahead and - me all you want Not that it's my business, but from what I have seen I think you get -'d for posting like a grumpy old man. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: You didn't write the part about Nylander, I didn't mean to make it look like you did but you did say "Virtanen is someone who possesses average hockey IQ" I get -d cause this forum is filled with a bunch of grumpy old men who don't like being proven wrong. A bunch of grumpy old men who have never actually played the game giving someone a - is the last act of a desperate man. Go ahead and - me all you want Strawmanning people instead of responding to what they say will tend to cause that. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: No. The unbiased posters always get roasted. Every Canuck prospect or player is a god and if you say other wise you are either -'d or labelled a troll. Thanks for your input though Unbiased does not equal consistently negative. Unbiased posters do not get roasted around here, unnecessarily negative posters do. I re read the last 5 pages of this fourm. Small sample size yes, but I came across one completely unneccesary post to stir the water, a personal attack from left field and some attempts to humanize negativity. So don't blame everyone else for a poor reputation. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukini Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 1 hour ago, The 5th Line said: There are a lot of users on this website, there will be a lot of repetitive discussion, there is repetitive discussion in every thread about all different kinds of topics. Get over it How can you sit there and say that Virtanen doesn't struggle when it comes to the mental side of the game, but then you are over in the draft thread telling people who you think we should draft? Hockey IQ is the number one thing you should be looking for in a young player. You and a few others are guilty of this.. He doesn't process the game well at all and it is so painfully obvious. So don't accuse people of being stat watchers when they can simply find a stream online and watch him play. The shoulder surgery and not being able to stay in shape hasn't helped either. "Nylander's game won't translate to North America" ... LOL I don't really see how this part is debatable, Jake is not great at processing the game at the NHL level, up untill this point in his career. Doesn't mean he can't be a good player though. The way you think the game, unlike how fast you get or how strong you become is more along the lines of you have it or you don't. Jake can still be an effective player, if he limits himself and plays to his strengths of skating fast, hitting hard, and occasionally making a pass that isn't as hard as a shot. Not everyone needs to think the game like Crosby to have success but let's not pretend he doesn't have his problems with it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Stoch Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 12 hours ago, pluralsight said: I'm no Virtanen fan boy, as I was definitely in the Ritchie/Nylander/Ehlers bandwagon at the time we drafted him. But you'd think Jake would be much more effective if he played with either Getzlaf, Matthews, or Schiefele. At the end of the day, the Canucks just don't have the talent as these other teams do and it would be hard to believe that the other three guys would have the same success if they were on this team. We have the Sedins, while not quite as good as those mentioned, who are still capable of being good linemates but he still couldn't earn a spot on that line, let alone stay on the roster, despite being on an offensively pathetic team with several AHL forwards in the lineup. If he couldn't crack the Canucks forward lineup, he realistically wouldn't be earning a spot on the top line of any of those other three teams. Good players earn their ice time. We can't just gift it to a guy who clearly had entitlement issues. He just spent an entire year, 3 years after being drafted, only to "get it" and finally comprehend the fact that he's supposed to work hard for a spot in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Green is going to have the final say this year (which I think is a good thing). When injuries happen I think Jake will get an extended look. Unless,that is, if he wins a spot out right for opening night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugar baby watermelon Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 This debate will never end will it? How old is the kid, 20 years old, and he is being labelled a bust already and some people are wanting him shipped out of here. Come on, haha, I don't understand that way of thinking at all. I see another year or 2 of playing in the AHL with some call-ups for injury replacements and him moving up the line with earned minutes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBoGo53 Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 10 hours ago, Zhukini said: I don't really see how this part is debatable, Jake is not great at processing the game at the NHL level, up untill this point in his career. Doesn't mean he can't be a good player though. The way you think the game, unlike how fast you get or how strong you become is more along the lines of you have it or you don't. Jake can still be an effective player, if he limits himself and plays to his strengths of skating fast, hitting hard, and occasionally making a pass that isn't as hard as a shot. Not everyone needs to think the game like Crosby to have success but let's not pretend he doesn't have his problems with it Disagree. I haven't seen many players develop hockey IQ over time. It's either something you have, or you don't. Virtanen doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukini Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, GoBoGo53 said: Disagree. I haven't seen many players develop hockey IQ over time. It's either something you have, or you don't. Virtanen doesn't. That's what I said though Edited May 23, 2017 by Zhukini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyHatnDart Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 I'm just not willing to give up on a 20 year old kid quite yet. The last month of the season showed that a player is capable of being rebuilt and while his stats didn't prove that, the eye test certainly did. Whatever was said or given to him as an off ice training program it appears by his physical changes that the message got through. Also reading some of his comments it seems the message may have gotten through his head. While it is a disappointment to a degree seeing Nylander playing so well and appearing to be exactly the type of player we need to replace H Sedin, I believe Virtanen will be an excellent 2nd liner and regardless of comparisons, that is a huge asset to have on your team. With Green as the coach that got through to him now being the Canucks coach, it's all up to Virtanen from here on out. The only way I'll lose faith for the guy is if he comes to camp in the same shape as he did last year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post higgyfan Posted May 23, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted May 23, 2017 1 hour ago, GoBoGo53 said: Disagree. I haven't seen many players develop hockey IQ over time. It's either something you have, or you don't. Virtanen doesn't. Jake's hockey sense was rated 3/5 which is slightly above average. HS isn't something you either have or don't have; like any other skill, players have varying levels. Hockey sense actually can be improved upon. Just google it and you will find pages and pages about it. I would venture a guess that Jake is working on improving his understanding of the game and on ice vision while he is playing in the AHL. It is far more difficult to do these things in the NHL,which is why it is not a good idea to rush young players. JV has some very good skills (skating, physical, great shot), so if he can improve his hockey sense, it increases his chances of achieving his projected level of play (top 6). I think it would be very good for Jake to continue playing in the AHL for another year. Playing big minutes and experiencing all kinds of game situations in a developmental environment is the best way for him to improve his overall hockey sense. It is unlikely that Jake will ever have elite hockey sense, but there's a good chance he will improve on what he already has. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nergish Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Saw Jake biking the seawall yesterday, was looking very lean and fit. I still like the kid. Hometown boy, all the tools in the world... he just needs to play with passion. Not everyone can play like Horvat, where every shift is played like your last, but Jake needs to find a role to cling to and just be the best at that specific role. He was our strongest hitter in year 1. How that element completely slipped out of his game in the AHL is beyond me (he was probably being coached to be an offensive player, but that didn't really work too well either). But he has a skillset that few people have around the league; certainly nobody on the Canucks has the size/speed/hitting Jake can provide. Would anybody really mind if Jake wasn't an offensive player at this stage? We've got Dahlen, Goldy, obviously Brock, potentially Glass/Mittelstadt/Vilardi... these guys deflect attention away from Jake and his stigma as a 6OA grinder. I don't think he's a lost cause as an impact top six forward yet, but we have other needs right now - our smaller offensive guys are gonna need somebody like Jake to play physical and stand up for his teammates. Is Jake prepared to fight if Juolevi gets run? Should he be? I don't even know anymore. All I know is our team is going to get levelled on quite a few nights if we don't have somebody with size that can step up with a devasating bodycheck every once in a while. If the highlight reel hits are being delivered by our local boy, I'd be very inclined to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionOfDoom Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Agree above watching the ducks momentum swings often change from huge hits by guys like Ritchie and getzlaf jake can be a momentum guy for us that has the ability to be a playoff kind of guy physically wearing out defence and chipping in here and there on the score sheet I would like to see him play right on the line again with those questionable hits because every team has a guy like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancouver Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Canucks desperately need jake to become an nhler, even if only a 3rd line winger who pots 12-15 goals a year. They need his size and speed and snarl especially in the playoffs because the rest of the forward group looks pretty soft so far. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Nancouver said: Canucks desperately need jake to become an nhler, even if only a 3rd line winger who pots 12-15 goals a year. They need his size and speed and snarl especially in the playoffs because the rest of the forward group looks pretty soft so far. Chances are, how the forward group 'looks' today won't be what it actually is in 3'ish years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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