DownUndaCanuck Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Funny, after what looked to my eyes, Virtanen's first bad game as a pro last night, I figured Gunt/Unda would be in here on their soap boxes. A little disappointed TBH That said, most of the team played crappy last night. Losing battles, sloppy play/execution, blown coverage...Virt was far from alone. It's also not (or shouldn't be) unexpected that he was going to have some bad games. Hopefully they're irregular and he responds well on Saturday. The whole team played crap, yes, and I can only say "I told you so" so many times. Now that we've got a rookie in our lineup we've got to deal with the consequences. That Philadelphia game was a fantastic coming out party for Jake but he was playing against a pretty pathetic team and an all-AHL defence that has been embarassed by a lot of teams. They got absolutely shelled by Calgary the next game.These inconsistencies are almost a guarantee for any rookie and Jake is no exception. Horvat never played this poorly defensively on a consistently inconsistent basis but Virtanen gets the pass because he's a winger. The kids got a long way to go and I really just hope that keeping him up with the big club for his own development doesn't hurt the Canucks, because right now he's pencilled in as our 2nd line winger but is playing under 10 minutes a game every 2nd night. When you've got two rookies and someone like Cracknell or Baertschi playing under 10 minutes, that really heaps pressure onto the older vets who can only take on so much responsibility.This is where I'd much rather we have played Gaunce and Shinkaruk over say Baertschi and Virtanen. The first two have been groomed and developed by our own organization to perfection. They spent their time in junior, grew, did everything they could there, then they've gone to the AHL and are now doing everything they can at their very best in the AHL. Another year will be nice, but I think Gaunce and Shinkaruk would have brought more consistency, offence and defence to the table than Virtanen and Baertschi. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 My thoughts on Jake right now are that two months after turning 19, in his eighth or ninth NHL game, on the play he scores his first NHL goal, he makes a power move to the net that three teams and four NHL coaches have tried to get a 24 year old Zack Kassian to do for 5 seasons now. At this early in his career, Virtanen is already way better than Kassian. Who knows what his upside is, but I really don't care.In the meantime, I'm just going to simply enjoy watching him develop as a player to see where he gets to. The bone crunching hits and shat disturbing in the corners and in front of opposition goalies will just be a nice bonus.Why not just enjoy watching the kids on this team develop? It's more fun that way. What Virtanen produces physically both by puck possession and by hits out weighs Kassian's forte which IMO was passing. It never ceased to amaze me how a big guy like Kassian would lose his balance whether while contesting along the boards, in front of the net battles or in fights. I have seen little of that from Virtanen. I am not worried about his point production as it will come. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amish Rake Fighter Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Seeing JV develop in strides this season makes me want to shake my head at the Hitmen Coaching staff and how they deployed Virtanen last year in Junior. I wonder how big of a factor, if any, did that come into play when the Canucks brass and coaching discussed he's future with the big club.I found Hitmen games almost unwatchable after seeing the Greyhounds (McCann) and Generals (Cassels) play last year, same with the Knights the year before with Horvat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Monahan Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 The whole team played crap, yes, and I can only say "I told you so" so many times. Now that we've got a rookie in our lineup we've got to deal with the consequences. That Philadelphia game was a fantastic coming out party for Jake but he was playing against a pretty pathetic team and an all-AHL defence that has been embarassed by a lot of teams. They got absolutely shelled by Calgary the next game.These inconsistencies are almost a guarantee for any rookie and Jake is no exception. Horvat never played this poorly defensively on a consistently inconsistent basis but Virtanen gets the pass because he's a winger. The kids got a long way to go and I really just hope that keeping him up with the big club for his own development doesn't hurt the Canucks, because right now he's pencilled in as our 2nd line winger but is playing under 10 minutes a game every 2nd night. When you've got two rookies and someone like Cracknell or Baertschi playing under 10 minutes, that really heaps pressure onto the older vets who can only take on so much responsibility.This is where I'd much rather we have played Gaunce and Shinkaruk over say Baertschi and Virtanen. The first two have been groomed and developed by our own organization to perfection. They spent their time in junior, grew, did everything they could there, then they've gone to the AHL and are now doing everything they can at their very best in the AHL. Another year will be nice, but I think Gaunce and Shinkaruk would have brought more consistency, offence and defence to the table than Virtanen and Baertschi.lmao Philly lost 2-1 in OT while giving up 30 shots with their backup in net. Not what I would call shelled.You have a helluva lot of opinions to share for somebody who's so consistently making an ass out of themselves. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 (edited) I've never seen one poster talk out of their arse SOOOO much. And we've had some arse-talkers around here! Edited November 6, 2015 by J.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Monahan Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 I've never seen one poster talk out of their arse SOOOO much. And we've had some arse-talkers around here!One needs to look only so far as my sig to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Or my sig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Yeah, both of them are now on my otherwise short ignore list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 lmao Philly lost 2-1 in OT while giving up 30 shots with their backup in net. Not what I would call shelled.You have a helluva lot of opinions to share for somebody who's so consistently making an ass out of themselves.I meant Edmonton, the game after the Canucks. 49 shots against, blown out of the water in the 3rd period.The results don't really matter, it's pretty obvious - that's a terrible defence they've got over there. Virtanen looked good against their defence but then down-right ugly against a semi-decent Pittsburgh defence and couldn't handle the Penguins forwards in his own zone either. Those are the games we should be judging these players by - the ones against playoff-bound, contending teams, not Philly.If Jake can score a big goal, make a huge defensive play or land a giant hit in a big, important game against a good team then I'll be impressed. For a good comparison, look at what McCann did. Single-handedly scores a monster goal in the Pittsburgh game to give us a chance. Going back, look what he did against Montreal. Two goals in the first period alone against the best goalie in the world and a team that hadn't surrendered a 1st period goal yet. Those sort of huge, clutch performances are the ones you want in a team. Not a random nothing-hit on Nichushkin behind our own net that looks pretty and nice but doesn't really amount to anything in terms of the game. "Oh he got laid out and neutralized"? Please. Hits and skating is all well and good, but we need a lot more from someone who's being pencilled in as our 2nd line winger to start games. McCann should be a direct comparison, he clearly deserves to be in this league and definately on this team because he's been one of our best forwards all season long. Virtanen has been one of our worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 One needs to look only so far as my sig to see that.so does that mean you lost an avatar bet, and were forced to use the (Beiber-like) Monahan picture you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uselessstats Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 For a good comparison, look at what McCann did. Single-handedly scores a monster goal in the Pittsburgh game to give us a chance. Are you sure you watch *Canuck* games?http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/game/pittsburgh-penguins-vancouver-canucks-20151104/Stats 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derp... Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Looking very strong tonight. Hope he is able to bang one in for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Yeah, both of them are now on my otherwise short ignore list I tried to keep it to one page, but I finally had to cave and let it spill over to a second page.Virtanen's having a good game today though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uselessstats Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) I tried to keep it to one page, but I finally had to cave and let it spill over to a second page.Virtanen's having a good game today though.He has but let's look at it thru Down Unda's eyes: - Took a horrible penalty that showed his lack of hockey IQ;- Didn't do much outside of some far out shots, some average passes, and some useless hits. Jared McCann (a real (prospect) on the other hand had some nice shots, nice passes, and a nice hit.- Any good play by Virtanen doesn't count because Buffalo is a bad team. Call me when he dangles Shea Weber and scores on Patrick Roy.Think that should cover it. Edited November 7, 2015 by uselessstats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 DownUnda and 'objectivity' are like oil and water. He's consistently shown a willingness to invent stats to win an argument. Why the mods haven't banned him for trolling can only be explained by some kind of Aussie quota that is required for the site to operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 DownUnda and 'objectivity' are like oil and water. He's consistently shown a willingness to invent stats to win an argument. Why the mods haven't banned him for trolling can only be explained by some kind of Aussie quota that is required for the site to operate. I disagree with his Virtanen opinion too, but it's his and he's entitled to it. Is it crossing the line though, when he continues to promote other teams' prospects as better choices than Virtanen? What would happen if we went to the Toronto board and posted how McCann is doing great in the NHL, while Nylander is only in the AHL, and that The Leafs clearly messed up, and it's looking like Nylander is a bust? We could post lots of stats showing guys who had similar AHL stats to Nylander who busted, like Vey for example. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I disagree with his Virtanen opinion too, but it's his and he's entitled to it. Is it crossing the line though, when he continues to promote other teams' prospects as better choices than Virtanen? What would happen if we went to the Toronto board and posted how McCann is doing great in the NHL, while Nylander is only in the AHL, and that The Leafs clearly messed up, and it's looking like Nylander is a bust? We could post lots of stats showing guys who had similar AHL stats to Nylander who busted, like Vey for example.And he could end up being right about Virtanen, I just find it laughable that he's claiming to be more objective than other posters on here. He is one of those people that is more interested in winning an argument than being right, which is why he'll make things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uselessstats Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I disagree with his Virtanen opinion too, but it's his and he's entitled to it. Is it crossing the line though, when he continues to promote other teams' prospects as better choices than Virtanen? What would happen if we went to the Toronto board and posted how McCann is doing great in the NHL, while Nylander is only in the AHL, and that The Leafs clearly messed up, and it's looking like Nylander is a bust? We could post lots of stats showing guys who had similar AHL stats to Nylander who busted, like Vey for example.Everyone is free to have an opinion but people are under no obligation to respect it if you can't back it up with reasonable support. Most of the Jake-bashing around here has lacked objective support and generally relies on sliding the goal posts around to suit their inconsistent narrative. Guy makes a defensive mistake? Clearly not ready to play in the NHL. Horrible draft pick. Why oh why didn't we draft Ehlers?Plays a quiet, steady game in his own zone? Where are the shots? Where are the shoooooooots?Takes a lot of shots? Anyone can shoot it. I demand goals.Score a goal? But that team isn't as good as the one McCann scored against tonight (Pittsburgh).Get told that McCann didn't actually score a goal against Pittsburgh? Hide your head and don't come into the thread for a few days until you think people have forgotten about it. Rinse and repeat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 And he could end up being right about Virtanen, I just find it laughable that he's claiming to be more objective than other posters on here. He is one of those people that is more interested in winning an argument than being right, which is why he'll make things up. I expect he's not trying to Troll, but I can see how us Canuck's fans get upset, and react like we are being trolled. I fail to see the point in attacking our young prospects, when there are plenty of vets to pick on. I think Virtanen is a unique talent, and we are fortunate to have him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I expect he's not trying to Troll, but I can see how us Canuck's fans get upset, and react like we are being trolled. I fail to see the point in attacking our young prospects, when there are plenty of vets to pick on. I think Virtanen is a unique talent, and we are fortunate to have him.I think you're missing my point. Having a differing opinion is fine; making things up to support your opinion is not fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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