Torts was right.

[BanTSN]

John Tortorella dished Weise one of his typically callous backhanded compliments. While trying to give Weise some credit with the media for setting up Brad Richardson for a goal, Tortorella basically said he’s offensively clueless.

“I’m not so sure he knows what’s going on,” the coach said then.

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Weise+Stanley+runneth+over/9816547/story.html

The way the Canucks handled Weise could be held up as one of the examples of how badly mismanaged the Canucks were top to bottom. John Tortorella ignored the strengths of Weise’s game and tried to turn him into his designated fighter. When his skill set didn’t fit the bill, he was sent on his way to a team that prizes skill over fisticuffs.

Much like David Booth and some others, Weise was confused for months with the way Tortorella talked to him, about him and the way he was deployed, or more accurately not played

In two previous years in Vancouver, at the very least, Weise established himself as a decent fourth liner and there weren’t a lot of those in Vancouver this year.

But when Tortorella arrived Weise admits he was back to “square 1″ in terms of proving he was an NHL regular.

On a team with a below average bottom six, Tortorella continued to scratch a healthy Weise.

Then, after returning from his Hartley suspension, the former Canucks head coach ripped Vancouver for being too soft and lacking toughness, and did all that the same day Weise was traded to Montreal.

http://thereuschblog.com/?p=32222

Weise wasn't exactly going to save the season if he had stayed.

I think the fanbase and media kinda overplays the woe is me story of the underskilled 4th-liner or depth-level d-man type.

Volpatti also comes to mind. He went on to be a 4th-liner in Washington.

Sulzer? Out of the league I think.

Weise was a 4th liner in Montreal throughout the playoffs. He wasn't instrumental on that line either. (Briere.) He'll continue being a 4th liner likely throughout what is to be a journeyman career. Torts sized that up years ago.

As the 3rd guy on any secondary checking line, Weise would literally be the least-important player on a team that went on to win a cup. He can't pk. He can't go on the power play. He can't even fight. If he wants out to score a so-called 'better opportunity' elsewhere, that's his call. Just like it was his call to not show us much in any decent opportunity he was given.

Turning a low-skill waiver pickup, which Weise was, into a short-term d-man rental and then a 5th rounder is totally fine by me.

So Weise got his feelins hurt. Boo-hoo-hoo. We have many much bigger concerns going forward if we ultimately want to win a cup.

[JamesB]

I don't agree with all the blame Torts has gotten. A lot of players simply sucked. After all the talk of how great of shape the twins were in, how Hamhuis was Olympic caliber, how Edler would "bounce back"... These guys under performed when time came to prove it.

Think Torts did really well with our younger players, Tanev and Kassian especially. Expecting big years from them.

When one guy has a bad year or loses his focus, that might the player's fault. When all the veterans have bad years that is either the coach or the biggest coincidence in NHL history.

The Sedins, Edler, and Hamhuis have had excellent careers until last year (and how many Canucks aside from the Sedins have won NHL scoring titles?) They are also all hard workers and character people. If they all crash in the midst of obvioulsy bad coaching decisions (like Henrik throwing feeble body checks in the defensive zone and getting injured, or Edler being asked to ignore his natural offensive abilities and play a zone-based collapse around the net defense) that is the coach.

And lets not forget disappointing seasons from Burrows, Higgins, Hansen, Kesler, Garrison, Bieksa and others.

Torts did not even go to practice, or talk to the Utica coach. He could not even bring himself to live in BC during the season.

Face it, he snowed Gillis and Aquillini to get the job then mailed it in.

I am not saying that Gillis did a good job of providing talent. He didn't and he deserved to be fired. But his worst decision (if it was his decision) was hiring Torts.

[CanucksSayEh]

Outside of a few, everyone that was bad, was so the year before. It's not as if everyone fell off a cliff. That is what the team looks like with Hank and Burrows injured. Kesler becomes the only goal scorer, he did pretty well at it all things considered. Ofcourse there's no points to get anywhere else. The only surprise was Garrison, but he apparently was nursing something as well.

Guys like Higgy and Hansen are just destined to disappoint if you ask them to score regularly.

[Plum]

I remember him playing Sedins so much in the beginning of the season and they just wore off as the season went on and so did our team. Sedins were playing great but he used them excessively and got burned on it.

I think everyone knew that we needed more than a coaching change because we were past our prime after 2012-13. Benning is trying to revamp this team, looks okay so far just wondering how we'll replace the Sedins.

[Boudrias]

i believe torts ruined this team...he was right on some points but like keenan, he played some people way too much...

we know for a fact that when some players play more than their minds and bodies can handle, they break down and

make mistakes....weise said torts didn't believe in using 4th lines...we all know how useful weise was for montreal's 4th line...

the canucks played decent hockey till xmas but the whole team crumbled at once...i'll never believe that tort's over playing his players, wasn't the main cause of this team's demise...we will find out this year if torts is not the main blame...

I think there were a lot of reasons why the team tanked. I cannot blame Torts for all of it. Injuries

alone were a huge part. We do not know what was playing behind the scenes which forced his hand as a

coach. I do believe that serious CUP contenders have to have 4 lines. I can sympathize with Torts

when he looked to his bench to try and make up those lines.

Fans have now clutched onto the Benning/Desjardin combo to deliver the goods. I think they are good

hockey people but their roster is not a contender and the Canucks will struggle as a result. The issue

this season is letting the new players grab the reins and Benning converting vets into more picks and

prospects. The Van timeline for contention has to be 3-4 years out.

[Baggins]

I don't agree with all the blame Torts has gotten. A lot of players simply sucked. After all the talk of how great of shape the twins were in, how Hamhuis was Olympic caliber, how Edler would "bounce back"... These guys under performed when time came to prove it.

Think Torts did really well with our younger players, Tanev and Kassian especially. Expecting big years from them.

He rides his best players into the ice and has one way of coaching and expects everybody to play that way instead of playing guys to their strengths. The best coaches adapt their game plan to what they have instead of trying to force square pegs in round holes.

I think Tanev and Kassian made the step forward because of an increased role, meaning greater opportunity, as opposed to Torts coaching.

[ice orca]

Torts misjudged the job in Vancouver big time in all aspects. He wasn't prepared for the team, city, pressure of a rabid Canadian market, division, conference. He came in here and figured his big ego was all he needed to whip this team into shape.

[Brick Tamland]

Selective reading on WD, I see. He's been described as ultra intense and competitive by some of his past players. Don't mistake his "awww, I'm so thrilled to be here and I respect my players so much" to be a sign that he's going to be all warm and fuzzy. He may not be Mt. Torts ready to erupt, but I'm guessing he knows how to lay to boots to under performing players at the appropriate time. I'd be surprised if he wasn't.

Nothing to do with WD. I won't rate him until the year is up. When the Canucks went undefeated in December, nobody was complaining about Torts. I will give each WD the year before I make any assumptions.

[Dral]

Messier did well in Edm and New York, I am thinking he was just the wrong person for that Canucks team.

At least the Canucks addressed the problem by making some roster, coaching and management changes.

I think it would be more reasonable to assess Messier based on his entire body of work, not just one season with the Canucks.

interesting fix, no ?

[Angry Goose]

I'm 50/50 on Torts- he is a smart hockey coach but the team in VAN just isn't the right type of personnel for his style of play, and after hearing rumours about his arrogance with players in the dressing room, well I guess I'll leave that in the rumour mill. IMO he just doesn't seem like a long term coach that makes more friends than enemies.

OP is right though, Torts presser kind of forced everyone to take a good hard look at the entire organization (including him). The changes have been very positive.

[-DLC-]

Rarely is a lifelong player, dedicated, high profile coach who loves the game the one to blame.

Well that's partly untrue - if players under that coach are failing to perform he does share the blame in that - afterall, he has the power to decide who plays, etc. How he responds to that (players under performing) is his deal. How he utilizes his roster.

You want to lump this into an easy argument, but it's not.

Not sure why we always look back in order to assign "blame" anyhow...it's pointless and can't be proven with so many cooks in the kitchen. Hindsight is only useful if you learn from it and I believe the team tries to take away what they can from failures and successes.

I think Torts was a smart, passionate hockey man (still do). I believe when you come into a situation and are counted on as "the answer" you're set up for a hero/zero situation and that's what's happening here.

A good team that fell short started to flounder and it's a combination of things. Some of Tort's decisions were questionable and backfired (shot blocking, not playing Lu in the HC, losing it)...doesn't mean he was a complete failure.

I believe it was the right thing to move away from him as it seemingly didn't work. But he definitely wasn't "right" on everything - any coach would love a checklist of things that could/should be changed but it isn't always possible...you're given the roster you have and it's your responsibility to do what you can with it.

I don't think Torts said anything that wasn't already known...it's how to work around it that's at question here and he wasn't too successful in that. So, holds some of the blame. Our core is aging and we need to infuse some youth in but that's too easy to deflect to. Edmonton did that and it's a combination of things that make a team click (some that can be controlled, some just luck and timing). Momentum and confidence are huge elements and when those start to go south it can unravel. Of course, you have to have players capable of turning things around but it's such a complex thing and people want to dumb it down to this or that. So many things come into play. You have age and speed (or lack thereof) - but, experience can offset that to some degree with positioning, etc. You have injury and rust. You have confidence. You have some who are unhappy/want to move - that becomes a distraction.

[erkayloomeh]

Torts did well in Tampa and New York, I am thinking he was just the wrong person for that Canucks team.

At least the Canucks addressed the problem by making some roster, coaching and management changes.

I think it would be more reasonable to assess Tortorella based on his entire body of work, not just one season with the Canucks.

As for the 'Calgary' incident, I get how it was unprofessional, but some part of me can't help but wonder what Torts would have done to Hartley had he got his hands on him....

torts was banking on the fact he wouldn't get to him. It was a big torts drama. Had he got to him he would have gotten up in his face and cussed him out. That's it.

[-DLC-]

^Re the Calgary incident....here's the deal for me. At the time, I was stoked and liked the fact that he didn't hold back and went to bat for his team. In hindsight (if that's the game we're playing here), it was the guy supposedly in place to lead the team completely melting down. Now, as much as some call out the Sedins for their lack of emotion at times (professionalism, composure and keeping things in check is what I call it), keeping it cool in difficult situations is important. It takes a special person to be able to maintain that cool in times of adversity. That incident did not help the team in any way...it was chaotic, but I understood it - Torts lives and breathes for his team and that's admirable. But that experiment just didn't work...Plan B now. We'll see...it's a tough thing to be a top hockey team. Some here "expect" it and don't realize that it isn't a given. Welcome to the NHL...as a long time fan, knew for years how tough it was as we failed to see much success for periods. But the entitled who have only known a team that can compete don't accept that as part of the deal and expect to slap on a bandaid in the form of a new coach and voila. Go. Win.

But they don't get that...."it's a process".

[THERETOOL]

torts has always had the same problem . He is a narcissist . Its not that he meant to be , he couldn't help it . no matter what happened or what he was doing , it had to be about him .

I think he's a good coach and a nice enough man . I just think he needs to see a shrink as he couldn't control himself no matter how hard he tried .

get some therapy john

[nuck nit]

^Re the Calgary incident...."

When (Tortorella) he’s dishing out the medicine, it’s part of the game. When he’s tasting it, it shouldn’t be in the game.

And when he’s tasting it courtesy of a coach he has little respect for, it makes him completely snap

“I guess in John’s world you can come into our building and start your tough guys, but we can’t do the same in here,” DeBoer said. “He’s either got short-term memory loss or he’s a hypocrite."

Like lulover accurately states, it's all about John. Hardly acceptable when you cannot control your emotions and you are the face of a professional sports franchise.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/puck-daddy/john-tortorella-awkward-history-faceoff-fights-bob-hartley-211638086--nhl.html

[Dogbyte]

Well that's partly untrue - if players under that coach are failing to perform he does share the blame in that - afterall, he has the power to decide who plays, etc. How he responds to that (players under performing) is his deal. How he utilizes his roster.

You want to lump this into an easy argument, but it's not.

Not sure why we always look back in order to assign "blame" anyhow...it's pointless and can't be proven with so many cooks in the kitchen. Hindsight is only useful if you learn from it and I believe the team tries to take away what they can from failures and successes.

I think Torts was a smart, passionate hockey man (still do). I believe when you come into a situation and are counted on as "the answer" you're set up for a hero/zero situation and that's what's happening here.

A good team that fell short started to flounder and it's a combination of things. Some of Tort's decisions were questionable and backfired (shot blocking, not playing Lu in the HC, losing it)...doesn't mean he was a complete failure.

I believe it was the right thing to move away from him as it seemingly didn't work. But he definitely wasn't "right" on everything - any coach would love a checklist of things that could/should be changed but it isn't always possible...you're given the roster you have and it's your responsibility to do what you can with it.

I don't think Torts said anything that wasn't already known...it's how to work around it that's at question here and he wasn't too successful in that. So, holds some of the blame. Our core is aging and we need to infuse some youth in but that's too easy to deflect to. Edmonton did that and it's a combination of things that make a team click (some that can be controlled, some just luck and timing). Momentum and confidence are huge elements and when those start to go south it can unravel. Of course, you have to have players capable of turning things around but it's such a complex thing and people want to dumb it down to this or that. So many things come into play. You have age and speed (or lack thereof) - but, experience can offset that to some degree with positioning, etc. You have injury and rust. You have confidence. You have some who are unhappy/want to move - that becomes a distraction.

Well said Deb. I admit Torts obviously shares in the blame but he is one coach and there are 20 players, plus management, plus ownership that made some pretty glaring mistakes in the last couple years. I just find it pretty hard to believe that a multi million/billion dollar corporation went out and hired a guy for one of the most 30 coveted coaching positions on the planet and according to most people on this site hired a guy that was the equivalent of a homeless crack whore on Hastings street. As if the guy knows absolutely nothing about coaching a hockey team. C'mon now.

I also find it hard to believe that 14 years olds and people that have never picked up a hockey stick are heads and tails better and smarter than a guy that coached 900 NHL games and received a 5 year contract last year. I mean that's just ludicrous.

This team was a complete mess when he took over. From a goalie that didn't want to be here, to probably our best commodity not wanting to be here, to the GM screwing himself salary wise, to not getting a needed second liner, to contracts like Edler and NTC's making our team stagnant, and people want to blame all that on the new coach?

I think it's fair to assign some blame to Torts but if you want to look at the problems start with the GM and realize that's where this team went downhill. Now Torts didn't come in and be the hero but he certainly is not the primary point of the problem, that's all I'm trying to say. Trying to pretend this was a championship team with another coach is short-sighted to say the least. Changes needed to be made and Linden made the single biggest one when he relieved MG.

And I agree, I don't know why we always have to assign blame. Only one team wins every year. Sometimes you lose and sometimes you need to take a new approach like we are. Not even to lay all the blame on MG. The GM position has a shelf life and teams need to move in new directions continually. Sometimes people just need to admit to themselves that the entire group was not good enough.

I wonder if Buffalo fans are sitting back with 10 threads all dedicated to how Ted Nolan sucks primal butt and should never coach in the NHL again because he got even less out of his players. He should have adapted obviously like a good coach does instead of doing the same stupid things that don't work. A good coach would have adapted to the type of players he had and went to SCF. See how dumb that sounds?

[CroSen]

 

Props to Torts for being so honest is his last interview with the Canucks. He knew he was going to get fired. He just decided to be brutally honest.

 

I don't get why he deserves any props for this? It is easy to state your views on things when you know you are out the door. It is a psychological strategy many use when they get fired to cope with their emotions.

The statistical drops in player stats and team stats I think speaks volumes. He lack of relationship building was evident. He further increased the goalie controversey. He stormed another teams dressing room. It is maybe a style that worked several years ago, however not now. Likely the guy is more angry at himself then he is at anyone else.

[Tiger-Hearted]

 

 

I don't get why he deserves any props for this? It is easy to state your views on things when you know you are out the door. It is a psychological strategy many use when they get fired to cope with their emotions.

The statistical drops in player stats and team stats I think speaks volumes. He lack of relationship building was evident. He further increased the goalie controversey. He stormed another teams dressing room. It is maybe a style that worked several years ago, however not now. Likely the guy is more angry at himself then he is at anyone else.

WiseOne, you are 110% spot on with all your points. In all the years I've followed hockey, I've never seen a team with key players have career-worsts in ONE SINGLE season. Coincidence?? No. Okay, this isn't 2011. The team is older and slowing down. But 2011 was not a "Cinderella" year. The Canucks were a powerhouse team built on the way hockey is supposed to be played.

Torts coaches out of pure emotion and passion, that's it. He doesn't teach. Teaching requires as much patience as a long-suffering Canucks fan has. That is not to say that coaches shouldn't have emotion and passion.

Desjardins has those very qualities but he has his under control and he is passionate about teaching and mentoring his respective players.

As for Torts, he is a good man, I'm very sure about that. I just hope he takes some time away from the game and do some soul searching. It's never too late for self improvement.

[Chalky]

I am not trying to say Torts is being wronged. He wasn't the coach for this team, when he first got hired I was all for him. This team felt uninspired the 2 years before Torts. Now I see this team was the problem. And we blamed 2 coacjes because our GM didn't realize we needed changes to our team.

And Weise is a good 4th liner. Probably our only legitimate 4th liner. But I am sick of people saying Torts should've got Weise to play like he fid in Montreal, which is his home town with a proper 4th line.

I cannot disagree with anything you said above. The only thing different for me was I was not a Torts fan when he was hired but all the same I kept an open mind. Blaming 2 coaches because Gillis didn't make the right moves is pretty much the way it played out.

I get why the fired him though, I'm not sure he would have fit in with the Linden/Benning family.

[Dogbyte]

   

I don't get why he deserves any props for this? It is easy to state your views on things when you know you are out the door. It is a psychological strategy many use when they get fired to cope with their emotions.

The statistical drops in player stats and team stats I think speaks volumes. He lack of relationship building was evident. He further increased the goalie controversey. He stormed another teams dressing room. It is maybe a style that worked several years ago, however not now. Likely the guy is more angry at himself then he is at anyone else.

Basically he deserves props because he told the truth in a world and profession of liars when he had a lot to lose by doing it. The biggest thing is that he asked for help from the GM constantly and didn't get it. I don't really like guys that throw the team under the bus but in this extreme example of incompetence it was 100% warranted and the truth needed to be told ... from someone on the inside, and probably the only guy with enough balls and integrity to do it.

How many freaking times did we hear MG blab that he thinks his team was good enough while lying through his teeth? That was the biggest thing this team needed and we owe Torts a deep debt of gratitude. Moving forward the new management group now doesn't have the option to continue lying and sitting on their hands while we fans buck up for their rich lifestyles.