CRAZY_4_NAZZY Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 A lot of talk about how Subban deserved an invite but likely wouldn't have made the team. I'm not so sure. Speedy players are far more valuable on international ice. Similarly, smaller sized players are more able to find room. Both factors make Subban a smart bet. Pretty sure that this year's WJC is held in Montreal and Toronto therefore using the Habs' and Leafs' rinks. Usually when Canada plays on North American soil, they ice out a larger defensive core on the backend to play a more edgy style. Their are already better skilled dman ahead of Jordan. Like Theodore, Sanheim and returnee Morrisey. Tough competition to beat out. Yes Subban is a RHD something that would be coveted, but I bet that the brass from team Canada are concerned whether he can play against some pretty big competition. plus it's not like he'll be playing against NHL sized giants. he'll be playing against kids his own age. Even if they aren't NHL sized giants, there are plenty of large players in the tournament. From the US: Larkin, Eichel, Tuch, McCarron, Fasching, Iverson and co all very thick and brutish players. From Russia: Durgachev, Fishchenko, Proporov, Kraskovsky From Sweden: Karlsson, Kempe, De la Rose From Finland: Rantanen We are in the same pool as Sweden and USA...and they are big teams not only on the front but on the back to. Considering Canada already has a smallish dman in Morrisey, who is more likely a lock on the backend from them, they will want more sizable players who can move. Like Burse, heatherington, Morin, Fleury. Record shows that when Canada plays in North America they ice bigger and stronger dman with edge 05- North Dakota US: Seabrook, Weber, Phaneuf, Coburn 06- Vancouver - M.Staal, Bourdon, Barker, Parent, Pokulok 09- in Ottawa - Aulie, Goloubef, Myers, Teubert 10- in Saskatoon - Teubert, Scandella, Hamonic, Cowen 11- in Buffalo - Cowen, Despres, Gudbranson, Olsen 12 - Calgary - Hamilton, Oleksiak, Harrington. Not saying they won't change it but that has always been a trend I have noticed. Considering the crop of D like Burse, Heatherington, Morin, Fleury etc it looks that Canada will go that way again. I know not to put too much weight on the Subway series but Hicketts looked way more poised than Subban. Even though they are similar size players, Hicketts had a better game against russia than subban did. Its stupid, but thats how things work sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Gauthier for one is a returnee, which acts like a veteran presence for the team. He is an awesome PK player, plays physical and is guy you want out for the defensive draws. Do we honestly want McDavid or Reinhart taking those draws. Not really. Gauthier is probably the best defensive forward in that forward group, and very much could be the shutdown center if Horvat isn't loaned by Vancouver. There are quite of few big centers in the WJC like Eichel, Tuch, Larkin, Ratanen, Kempe. McDavid, Reinhart, Petan more likely our top three centres aren't all that big or strong for that matter. Gauthier's size and strength becomes that much more appealing for us to take with us even if he is a 13th forward. Offense can score goals but you also need good defensive forwards to protect leads which was a constant problem for team Canada last year. Gauthier was horrible last year. He's strong defensively but he's slow & brings no offense. Even last year he was just competent defensively I honestly didn't think he stood out at all defensively, Lazar, Horvat & Reinhart were all better. I don't see him as a shutdown center for this team, I don't think he's that good a player, unless Horvat comes back (or maybe Lazar) I don't think this team will have a "shutdown center", we will have strong defensive players but we will just need to beat teams with depth & having 4 lines that can play hockey rather than having the kind of team we did last year with a bunch of grinders in the bottom 6. This year even McCann would be better, not just cause I'm biased, he's a strong defensive player while being much better offensively & he's much faster plus he play anywhere in the lineup, Gauthier is a 4th line guy at best. Even taking McCann out of it I would rather Chartier make the team over Gauthier. The last few years have been very disappointing, but the same mistakes are made year after year, and that's taking too much size/grit over the better players, Crouse is a perfect example of that, there is absolutely no reason he should have made this roster over someone like Mitch Marner. And on a side note, him being as high as he is on some of these draft lists is ridiculous, I know its early but Nick Ritchie IMO is a better prospect than him & was last year, yet Crouse is higher in a better draft year. You can say other teams have size, but so do we, look at our wingers, Dal Colle, Virtanen, Ritchie all are potential top 6 wingers for us and they all have size (or in Virtanen's case play a heavy game), size shouldn't be our concern at all. Look at our last team to win gold, look at the depth, they had Jamie Benn & Evander Kane on the 4th line I believe, they had 4 lines of guys who can play, not just soley a bunch of grinders, we should have offense, speed & smarts throughout the lineup, yeah you need to have guys who can play defense & a mix of bigger guys as well, but that shouldn't come at the expense of having a deep all around team. Other countries don't have the talent depth we have so why don't we use it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Linden and benning were in talks with TC stating they'd loan him if they wanted him... i guess they didn't want him... i assume most people realize this is incorrect. Team Canada has indicated they would like Horvat. Linden and Benning have indicated that they will wait and see how things are going for Horvat and the Canucks as of mid-December and make the call then on whether to loan him to Team Canada. Bob McKenzie has pointed out that Horvat is a lock for 3C if he is available (with McDavid and Reinhart as 1C and 2C). http://www.tsn.ca/talent/mckenzie-reviewing-the-roster-a-look-at-canada-s-junior-invitees-1.148781 This would make Horvat the shutdown guy who can also provide secondary scoring, play PK, take key defensive zone face-offs and wear down the other team's D with his physical strength in front of the net. He was the best guy on Team Canada for that role last year and he has improved since then. Team Canada would of course love to have Horvat, as many people have pointed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRAZY_4_NAZZY Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Gauthier was horrible last year. He's strong defensively but he's slow & brings no offense. Even last year he was just competent defensively I honestly didn't think he stood out at all defensively, Lazar, Horvat & Reinhart were all better. I don't see him as a shutdown center for this team, I don't think he's that good a player, unless Horvat comes back (or maybe Lazar) I don't think this team will have a "shutdown center", we will have strong defensive players but we will just need to beat teams with depth & having 4 lines that can play hockey rather than having the kind of team we did last year with a bunch of grinders in the bottom 6. This year even McCann would be better, not just cause I'm biased, he's a strong defensive player while being much better offensively & he's much faster plus he play anywhere in the lineup, Gauthier is a 4th line guy at best. Even taking McCann out of it I would rather Chartier make the team over Gauthier. The last few years have been very disappointing, but the same mistakes are made year after year, and that's taking too much size/grit over the better players, Crouse is a perfect example of that, there is absolutely no reason he should have made this roster over someone like Mitch Marner. And on a side note, him being as high as he is on some of these draft lists is ridiculous, I know its early but Nick Ritchie IMO is a better prospect than him & was last year, yet Crouse is higher in a better draft year. You can say other teams have size, but so do we, look at our wingers, Dal Colle, Virtanen, Ritchie all are potential top 6 wingers for us and they all have size (or in Virtanen's case play a heavy game), size shouldn't be our concern at all. Look at our last team to win gold, look at the depth, they had Jamie Benn & Evander Kane on the 4th line I believe, they had 4 lines of guys who can play, not just soley a bunch of grinders, we should have offense, speed & smarts throughout the lineup, yeah you need to have guys who can play defense & a mix of bigger guys as well, but that shouldn't come at the expense of having a deep all around team. Other countries don't have the talent depth we have so why don't we use it? Gauthier has all the tools to be a solid player, yeah he didn't have a great world juniors last year, but not a lot of players did for team Canada. Gauthier is a player you lean on when the game is tight. The Coaching staff and management have probably sat down and looked at every single situation that could play out in a game. When a coach looks down his bench he has to be comfortable that a player can give him a certain element. When he looks down the bench for an important PK situation or securing a lead late in the third and needs a solid defensive zone faceoff, Gauthier is that type of player you want. Horvat may not be loaned, and for every reason why Gauthier is selected for this team. Did you watch any of the OMJHL vs Russia Subway super series. The Coach for that team who is the coach for team Canada used Gauthier at all important situations on the PK, Defensive draws, tight situations etc. But Gauthier also uses his size to create offense, but yeah he isn't McDavid but he brings a lot of solid skills. McCann yeah he is a strong defensive player, but so Gauthier is that much better. Offensively yeah McCann can bring it but McDavid, Petan, Reinhart are that much better. So yeah McCann looks like the odd man out. Reinhart, Dal Colle, Domi, McDavid, Petan, Virtanen, Fabbri, Point, Chartier potentially Lazar and Duclair. Not sure why you think Canada isn't using skill. I hardly seem any of them being "checkers" and team Canada said they want all four lines to produce but also be smart defensively, and look at the selection roster, it pretty much speaks for itself that all the players selected would help fill that role. Remind you that the 09 team yeah did have Benn and Kane as grinders. Don't forget Patrice Cormier (who i see Gauthier play very similar), Stefan Della rovere, Brett Sonne all were abrasive players that brought size and some defensive awareness. Team Canada had skill, but had size, grit and defense to complement it. The selection roster made by team Canada reflects balance and skills in all areas that can be used. Not sure where you are getting taking grinders over skilled players is coming from because Canada as we look is loaded with top level skill already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Gauthier has all the tools to be a solid player, yeah he didn't have a great world juniors last year, but not a lot of players did for team Canada. Gauthier is a player you lean on when the game is tight. The Coaching staff and management have probably sat down and looked at every single situation that could play out in a game. When a coach looks down his bench he has to be comfortable that a player can give him a certain element. When he looks down the bench for an important PK situation or securing a lead late in the third and needs a solid defensive zone faceoff, Gauthier is that type of player you want. Horvat may not be loaned, and for every reason why Gauthier is selected for this team. Did you watch any of the OMJHL vs Russia Subway super series. The Coach for that team who is the coach for team Canada used Gauthier at all important situations on the PK, Defensive draws, tight situations etc. But Gauthier also uses his size to create offense, but yeah he isn't McDavid but he brings a lot of solid skills. McCann yeah he is a strong defensive player, but so Gauthier is that much better. Offensively yeah McCann can bring it but McDavid, Petan, Reinhart are that much better. So yeah McCann looks like the odd man out. Reinhart, Dal Colle, Domi, McDavid, Petan, Virtanen, Fabbri, Point, Chartier potentially Lazar and Duclair. Not sure why you think Canada isn't using skill. I hardly seem any of them being "checkers" and team Canada said they want all four lines to produce but also be smart defensively, and look at the selection roster, it pretty much speaks for itself that all the players selected would help fill that role. Remind you that the 09 team yeah did have Benn and Kane as grinders. Don't forget Patrice Cormier (who i see Gauthier play very similar), Stefan Della rovere, Brett Sonne all were abrasive players that brought size and some defensive awareness. Team Canada had skill, but had size, grit and defense to complement it. The selection roster made by team Canada reflects balance and skills in all areas that can be used. Not sure where you are getting taking grinders over skilled players is coming from because Canada as we look is loaded with top level skill already. If u just look at the past winning teams for Team Canada the approach is so much different, I bring up the skill thing because last year if you remember we had no skill after the top 6. This team needs to have skill, speed and smarts in the bottom 6 aswell. We have some size & of course we need some two-way ability but it needs to be while having a fast, skilled team. Gauthier perhaps has a spot if Horvat doesn't get loaned, but it shouldn't be anything more than a 4th line PK specialist. So far I haven't seen much of anything different than in the past, last year we left skill players at home in favour of more size/grinding/two-way type players, many of which did nothing, and again there have been skill players left out of the running, like I keep bringing up Crouse but there is absolutely no reason why he should be there, he won't make the team, so its just a waste of a space that could be given to someone who has probably earned a chance like say Mitch Marner, Dylan Strome, maybe even Travis Konecny he was great in the U18's. (Its actually interesting someone made a great point on HF about HC not giving 17-18 years olds a shot like they have in the past unless they are obvious choices) I guess we will have to see the final team, but I am still getting the same feeling I have been getting the last few years with the selection process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snizzle_ Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Invite as a courtesy? Why?? They're trying to build a winning team and if the management does not think J.Subban adds to that, why give him a pat on the back and waste a spot they're using on someone they think can actually contribute? Courtesy may have been the wrong word but the reasons I listed above indicate that he did enough to warrant a longer look. Subban is not better than Hicketts. If it wasn't for his size and a injury, that caused Hicketts to miss most of his draft year who would be a top 3 round type of guy. He has great character and has represented Hockey Canada at multiply event and he plays a 200 foot game. (i've been following Hicketts since he played Bantam AAA for a Kamloops team that had Gropp and someone, else i forget who) Even Benning says Subban needs to work on this Defence. There isn't anything Hicketts has done that Subban hasn't. Top 3 round guy... really? I'm sure if he was someone would have picked him with a 6th or 7th round pick. In the end people had doubts about his size and thats it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Subban I can understand from Canada's POV just cause he's undersized and would be used as a PP specialist for the most part. Would be risky to have him out there against Russia/USA huge forwards and he may not be able to contain them. Safe move by Canada, I can see where they're coming from. ...but McCann!? They will surely regret that. Already a pretty weak team, no Lazar/Drouin/Horvat, they could used McCann big time in an attempt to at least partially replace Horvat. Bad move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsiders Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Nice to see Brayden Point make the list. I was really hoping the Canucks would have grabed in the 2nd or 3rd. I like Demko but Nikita Tryamkin over Point IMO was a mistake. You will be thanking Benning and co for taking this monster 3-4 years from now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THERETOOL Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 You will be thanking Benning and co for taking this monster 3-4 years from now i pray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Linden and benning were in talks with TC stating they'd loan him if they wanted him... i guess they didn't want him... They got till Dec.19 to loan Horvat, Canada has to send their roster in by Dec.25. Absolute JOKE that Subban didn't at the very least get an invite. Highest scoring D in the OHL... WJHC politics continue... Edit: NO Strome? Marner? But Crouse get's an invite? Wtf is going on?! I don't really see how this is politics, majority of the roster is WHL or OHL. Vancouver already has a player that's going to be on the team. Subban is not better than Hicketts. If it wasn't for his size and a injury, that caused Hicketts to miss most of his draft year who would be a top 3 round type of guy. He has great character and has represented Hockey Canada at multiply event and he plays a 200 foot game. (i've been following Hicketts since he played Bantam AAA for a Kamloops team that had Gropp and someone, else i forget who) Even Benning says Subban needs to work on this Defence. I think Hicketts is better than Subban, Hicketts is better with the puck than Subban, Subban can take a hard shot and play pretty well postionally but Hicketts plays just as good defensively. The game Subban plays won't work against great teams like USA, Russia and Sweden, they won't let him dangle around him while Hicketts plays a more simplified game and doesn't take as many risk. He's basically a safe defenceman that is small, Hicketts can play in all situations and he's a great skater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoneypuckOverlord Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Who exactly was McCann going to displace? And Subban? Wow, long-shot at best. Just so many better options available. We should be happy that Jake is in there. He should have a good tourney. highest goal scoring dman in the CHL. That's why! Badly need a goal? He has the shot from the point if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 World Junioverrated Tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoneypuckOverlord Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 hopefully cassels is on the usa roster announcement tomorrow he's done because of his 10 game suspension. No worlds for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortorella's Rant Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Absolute JOKE that Subban didn't at the very least get an invite. Highest scoring D in the OHL... WJHC politics continue... Edit: NO Strome? Marner? But Crouse get's an invite? Wtf is going on?! The same thing that has lead to no medal last year. Maybe he's a bad defensive player. I dunno. Or maybe they think his height is a factor. I don't know anything about Jordan other than he's a Canucks prospect, plays defense, and has an older NHL star brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowhereman Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Not only did they not take Horvat, but they also forgot MacKinnon, Drouin, and Lazar! What's going on Hockey Canada?! In all seriousness, Subban was snubbed but Mcann didn't deserve it. You can't risk inviting a guy who's not even fully recovered from mono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarGirl Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I'm happy for Virtanen, but yeah...Why didn't the other Canucks prospects get invited? I think the others are playing well too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta76 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 he's done because of his 10 game suspension. No worlds for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimp C Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 McCann doesn't deserve to be on the team, but Subban being left off is baffling. No way is Hicketts better than him. This is Subban's last year too, Hicketts could still be on the team next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimp C Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 This team is going to be terrible unless Mcdavid is healthy or 1 of Horvat/Lazar/Duclair/Drouin is loaned. I take back my comment about McCann. He is better than ???? Gauthier. Goaltending is terrible, they chose the 2 worst goalies out of Desrosier, Jarry, Fucale, and Comrie. Fucale and Comrie are garbage. Crouse has 16 points in 24 games. Why is he on this team? To take undisciplined penalties? Subban should've been on the team over 1 of Hicketts, or Bigras. I would lean toward leaving off the latter because he has been complete trash at every international tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeanBeef Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Center depth is very concerning. I'm assuming they'll move Reinhart to RW: Domi - McDavid - Reinhart Dal Colle - Petan - Virtanen _______ - ??????? - _______ _______ - Gauthier - _______ honestly would rather have Ritchie over Dal Colle in that spot after the Super series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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