Bo Horvat | #53 | C

[Rob_Zepp]

4 hours ago, Boudrias said:

If Horvat gets 1st Line TOI I would expect 60 minutes at a minimum. Much more actually.  

Not every player is a superstar out of junior...and many regress versus showing progress each year until hitting peak.  Just picking a few players at random that this player has elements of at times and who all showed progress each year (though certainly a long way from being considered in anywhere likely to have a career like theirs).  In each case, Bo Horvat could easily be argued was on a far weaker team and had fewer offensive zone opportunities.

 

HOF lock Henrik Sedin's first three seasons:

2000-01	20	VAN	NHL	82	9	20	29
2001-02	21	VAN	NHL	82	16	20	36
2002-03	22	VAN	NHL	78	8	31	39

 

HOF lock Joe Thorton's first three seasons:

1997-98	18	BOS	NHL	55	3	4	7
1998-99	19	BOS	NHL	81	16	25	41
1999-00	20	BOS	NHL	81	23	37	60

 

HOF lock Pavel Datsyk first three seasons (as a much older player as well)

2001-02	23	DET	NHL	70	11	24	35
2002-03	24	DET	NHL	64	12	39	51
2003-04	25	DET	NHL	75	30	38	68

 

Bo Horvat

2014-15	19	VAN	NHL	68	13	12	25
2015-16	20	VAN	NHL	82	16	24	40
2016-17	21	VAN	NHL	81	20	32	52

 

Could he regress?  Of course he could.   However, hard to imagine the team he is on next year being any worse than the one this year and he should get more ice time so a modest increase of 12-15 points may be quite a reasonable expectation.    Hitting 70 points would likely get him into top 15-20 in the league which would be outstanding.

 

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

Canucks gotta find a way to get Bo and Sven rolling right out of the gate when the season starts.  can't have them have a third straight slow start to the season.  This team doesn't have enough depth for them to be slow out of the gate again.

[-AJ-]

1 hour ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

Canucks gotta find a way to get Bo and Sven rolling right out of the gate when the season starts.  can't have them have a third straight slow start to the season.  This team doesn't have enough depth for them to be slow out of the gate again.

I feel that Bo actually had a decent start last year for once. He's been slow in the past, but last year was much better. Sven, however, needs to work on consistency and starting strong.

[kloubek]

I am happy I was wrong about Horvat.  I figured at worst he would be an elite 3rd line center but at best an elite 2nd line center.  Now he is already at 1b level and I think with legit high end linemates he would already be a good 1st line center as early as next season.

 

With that said, besides *maybe* Boeser, he isnt going to get those linemates next season so I think some of the hopes lately are a little lofty.

 

I predict a 60 point or low 60s season.  This factors in his own improvement as well as that of his likely linemates.  I think we see a top line of Baertschi Horvat Boeser next season, but I'm just not confident that either linemate will be able to keep up with him in scoring potential.  

[ReggieBush]

3 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

Canucks gotta find a way to get Bo and Sven rolling right out of the gate when the season starts.  can't have them have a third straight slow start to the season.  This team doesn't have enough depth for them to be slow out of the gate again.

I think having Travis Green will help with the development of Baer's game. He will get everything he can out of Baertschi. I would not be surprised if Baer puts up 50 points this year

[mll]

12 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

Canucks gotta find a way to get Bo and Sven rolling right out of the gate when the season starts.  can't have them have a third straight slow start to the season.  This team doesn't have enough depth for them to be slow out of the gate again.

I actually wonder if Green would play them together.  If you look at the linemates Baer had under Green - they are very different from Horvat.  He might want to have him play more like he did in Portland/Utica given the success they had together.

 

Last season WD started them on separate lines (Baer played with Granlund like he did to finish the previous season) but there were not a lot of options as wingers for Horvat.  It's different now. 

[WeneedLumme]

I expect Bo to be facing the other team's top checkers right from the beginning of the season. That's likely to minimize his point improvement until he fully adapts. The twins on the other hand, will not be facing the top checkers, so I expect their point production to bounce back next season.

Edited June 7, 2017 by WeneedLumme

[khay]

17 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Not every player is a superstar out of junior...and many regress versus showing progress each year until hitting peak.  Just picking a few players at random that this player has elements of at times and who all showed progress each year (though certainly a long way from being considered in anywhere likely to have a career like theirs).  In each case, Bo Horvat could easily be argued was on a far weaker team and had fewer offensive zone opportunities.

 

HOF lock Henrik Sedin's first three seasons:

2000-01	20	VAN	NHL	82	9	20	29
2001-02	21	VAN	NHL	82	16	20	36
2002-03	22	VAN	NHL	78	8	31	39

 

HOF lock Joe Thorton's first three seasons:

1997-98	18	BOS	NHL	55	3	4	7
1998-99	19	BOS	NHL	81	16	25	41
1999-00	20	BOS	NHL	81	23	37	60

 

HOF lock Pavel Datsyk first three seasons (as a much older player as well)

2001-02	23	DET	NHL	70	11	24	35
2002-03	24	DET	NHL	64	12	39	51
2003-04	25	DET	NHL	75	30	38	68

 

Bo Horvat

2014-15	19	VAN	NHL	68	13	12	25
2015-16	20	VAN	NHL	82	16	24	40
2016-17	21	VAN	NHL	81	20	32	52

 

Could he regress?  Of course he could.   However, hard to imagine the team he is on next year being any worse than the one this year and he should get more ice time so a modest increase of 12-15 points may be quite a reasonable expectation.    Hitting 70 points would likely get him into top 15-20 in the league which would be outstanding.

 

I can. I think it will be similarly bad. We will lose at least one quality defenceman either via trade (Edler or Tanev) or expansion draft (Sbisa). We will most likely lose Miller, who kept us in the game late and stole some for us. Henrik and Daniel are one year older. A lot of uncertainties surrounding the new coach, new system, how will the players adapt?

 

Having said that, I think Bo will get around 55-65. 70 points is indicative of a premier centerman in this league, and I don't think Bo is there quite yet. Even if he gets the primary PP time, this is the first time that he will be given such opportunities and it will take time to get set up. Also, I think he will adjust fine to being matched up against the opponent's best players, but as a result his point totals will not increase at the same rate as it has been in the past 2 seasons.

 

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

Father's day featuring Bo and his dad.

 

 

[48MPHSlapShot]

I'm predicting he finishes with around the same point total he ended up with last year. Not an indictment of him as a player, but he needs high end linemates as well. At this point, I'm starting to get the feeling that Bear Cheese is approaching his ceiling, and Boeser is a rookie, so it would be foolish to expect him to put up massive point totals in his first season.

 

 

[-AJ-]

3 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I'm predicting he finishes with around the same point total he ended up with last year. Not an indictment of him as a player, but he needs high end linemates as well. At this point, I'm starting to get the feeling that Bear Cheese is approaching his ceiling, and Boeser is a rookie, so it would be foolish to expect him to put up massive point totals in his first season.

 

 

I'm in the camp that believes Baertschi has 55-65 point potential and can be a perennial 20+ goal scorer. While Boeser is a wild card, he certainly does have some sky high potential.

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

10 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I'm predicting he finishes with around the same point total he ended up with last year. Not an indictment of him as a player, but he needs high end linemates as well. At this point, I'm starting to get the feeling that Bear Cheese is approaching his ceiling, and Boeser is a rookie, so it would be foolish to expect him to put up massive point totals in his first season.

 

 

I'm bolieving a full season of Baer Bo and Brock as a line, Bo will match his point totals to last year and then some. 

[AK_19]

On 6/7/2017 at 8:20 AM, WeneedLumme said:

I expect Bo to be facing the other team's top checkers right from the beginning of the season. That's likely to minimize his point improvement until he fully adapts. The twins on the other hand, will not be facing the top checkers, so I expect their point production to bounce back next season.

^^This. Bo slowed down his point pace near the end of the year when other teams started matching their top checkers against him. 

[ruilin96]

Just randomly browsing some of the prospects profiles and found this:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftprospectdetail.htm?cat=3&dpid=106987&sort=finalRank&year=2017

 

This guy got drafted by Toronto in the 4th round but he said Bo Horvat is the coolest person he has ever met!

[TFerguson]

Just extended a QO to Horvat. 

 

I fully expect that we'll get him signed but I am a little disappointed that it's come down to this. I recognize its a business transaction with millions of dollars at stake but seeing as he IS an actual "foundation piece" for this hockey team it would have been nice to see Benning do what it takes to make it happen like he's done with other (less foundational) pieces. 

 

I would love to know what number/term Bo's camp has in mind and where Vancouver is pushing back. If Bo (or his camp) wants him paid as an all-star after only one season above 50 points, I get it. But the Horvat crew has never struck me as greedy or 'out to lunch' before. 

[iinatcc]

49 minutes ago, AllWeatherFan said:

. But the Horvat crew has never struck me as greedy or 'out to lunch' before. 

If the fans and the media think Horvat is the future captain of the team then his value is very high. And in the professional world if you are good at something always make sure you are getting paid your worth. 

 

Also keep in mind Horvat's agent also gets a cut so its also in the agents best interest for Horvat to get the best possible deal. 

[DeNiro]

56 minutes ago, AllWeatherFan said:

Just extended a QO to Horvat. 

 

I fully expect that we'll get him signed but I am a little disappointed that it's come down to this. I recognize its a business transaction with millions of dollars at stake but seeing as he IS an actual "foundation piece" for this hockey team it would have been nice to see Benning do what it takes to make it happen like he's done with other (less foundational) pieces. 

 

I would love to know what number/term Bo's camp has in mind and where Vancouver is pushing back. If Bo (or his camp) wants him paid as an all-star after only one season above 50 points, I get it. But the Horvat crew has never struck me as greedy or 'out to lunch' before. 

Isn't qualifying a pretty standard thing that just allows them to keep negotiating?

 

Pretty sure this literally happens all the time. It has nothing to do with pushing back. Contracts like these always take a little longer.

[Wilbur]

3 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Isn't qualifying a pretty standard thing that just allows them to keep negotiating?

 

Pretty sure this literally happens all the time. It has nothing to do with pushing back. Contracts like these always take a little longer.

Also heard on 1040 (forget who), but the management team that Horvat is under (Meehan maybe?) notoriously waits to get deals like this done.  Not a bad strategy, let GM's come up with a bunch of crazy comparables after the July 1st silly season to drive up your client's price before quietly signing mid-July.

[TFerguson]

22 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

If the fans and the media think Horvat is the future captain of the team then his value is very high. And in the professional world if you are good at something always make sure you are getting paid your worth. 

 

Also keep in mind Horvat's agent also gets a cut so its also in the agents best interest for Horvat to get the best possible deal. 

Completely agree that his value is high. That's why I would've preferred Benning to cough up the $$ here rather than on some other (again, less foundational) pieces. To me, Horvat is worth more to this team than Erickson long term and I can't imagine Bo's number being higher than that. 

[TFerguson]

20 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Isn't qualifying a pretty standard thing that just allows them to keep negotiating?

 

Pretty sure this literally happens all the time. It has nothing to do with pushing back. Contracts like these always take a little longer.

Yes, it is fairly standard and I hope you're right that it has nothing to do with either side pushing back. Although, if either side were this is what it would look like ahead of July 1. 

All I'm saying is that, as a fan who really values Bo, I've been wanting to see this deal get done quickly and get him locked up for a while instead of it dragging out. With a QO extended other teams will be talking to him and I don't see much good coming for that other than to drive his price up.

But again I understand that these are multi-million dollar deals and they take time.