rotiman187 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Out of the top 6. I feel trading Horvat the most comfortable. 1 shot last night, no hits, blew tire on the game tying goal. Yes he turns up the gear in the playoffs but what is the point if he can't help us get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 28 minutes ago, rotiman187 said: Out of the top 6. I feel trading Horvat the most comfortable. 1 shot last night, no hits, blew tire on the game tying goal. Yes he turns up the gear in the playoffs but what is the point if he can't help us get there. He didn't play well, but he's a really good leader, the captain, and good at faceoffs (maybe not last night) What would the Canucks get for him? I have no idea what his value might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRAZY_4_NAZZY Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 I haven't been happy with Bo's play this year, but I haven't been happy with many this year either. That last game against SJ was probably the worst I've seen in his game. Took a terrible line change that allowed SJ to get back into the game, was horrendous defensively both on the PK and on the tying goal, and was simply abysmal in the faceoff dot. Certainly didn't love when Motte was jumped and Miller went in to back up Motte in the scrum, Bo sort of just watched and stood around. He hasn't looked like himself, he looks spent and seems like he doesn't have a lot of gas in the tank this year. I love Bo, my favourite Canuck, but he needs to find himself another gear here. Im not ready to give up on him, but my patience is wearing very thin with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 Bo's play has certainly slipped the last 2 seasons and it's tricky to say why. He was previously a great 20-30 goal scorer, 60+ point player and more importantly, when he was on the ice you knew about it. Recently he looks invisible out there and only really looks noticeable when he's scoring from that bumper slot shot on the PP. It's a tricky one with Horvat, he could easily just stay in that 2C spot for us long-term and eventually move down to 3C and retire a Canuck. I'd like to think we don't trade him right away, see what he can do next season when he has a full off-season with a good coach to prepare, but his last 80-90 games have been average for him to say the least. He's 26 now too and not getting any younger sadly, but he's still got some potential in there - some of these guys only peak in their late 20's-early 30's. What's really disappointing for me is that to be brutally honest, I remember in his rookie season he was on our bottom-6 lines and touted to be a defensive, shutdown center. He does play this way and is often against top lines, but he's been a career minus player. This season at -2 is actually his 2nd best year in that category, but never being a plus-player is quite a scary statistic. The true elite two-way centers like Bergeron are pretty tricky to come by and he's a +239 on his career, but even Kesler was slightly a plus-player in his prime (and got shelled later on in his career). Bo's certainly not the player we all expected or hoped he'd be - he's basically reduced now to a 20-30 goal scoring, 40-50 point player. On most good team's that's good for a 3rd line center but with the Canucks he's our 2nd line center. My issue is that good two-way centers are hard to come by. Lockwood isn't going to be much better and after him we have no one in our prospect pool, so unless we can trade for a 60 point 2nd line center who can defend and kill penalties (doubtful...Zacha is good but less talented offensively) I think it's best to keep Horvat and try to groom him to the player we want better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 26 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said: Bo's play has certainly slipped the last 2 seasons and it's tricky to say why. He was previously a great 20-30 goal scorer, 60+ point player and more importantly, when he was on the ice you knew about it. Recently he looks invisible out there and only really looks noticeable when he's scoring from that bumper slot shot on the PP. It's a tricky one with Horvat, he could easily just stay in that 2C spot for us long-term and eventually move down to 3C and retire a Canuck. I'd like to think we don't trade him right away, see what he can do next season when he has a full off-season with a good coach to prepare, but his last 80-90 games have been average for him to say the least. He's 26 now too and not getting any younger sadly, but he's still got some potential in there - some of these guys only peak in their late 20's-early 30's. What's really disappointing for me is that to be brutally honest, I remember in his rookie season he was on our bottom-6 lines and touted to be a defensive, shutdown center. He does play this way and is often against top lines, but he's been a career minus player. This season at -2 is actually his 2nd best year in that category, but never being a plus-player is quite a scary statistic. The true elite two-way centers like Bergeron are pretty tricky to come by and he's a +239 on his career, but even Kesler was slightly a plus-player in his prime (and got shelled later on in his career). Bo's certainly not the player we all expected or hoped he'd be - he's basically reduced now to a 20-30 goal scoring, 40-50 point player. On most good team's that's good for a 3rd line center but with the Canucks he's our 2nd line center. My issue is that good two-way centers are hard to come by. Lockwood isn't going to be much better and after him we have no one in our prospect pool, so unless we can trade for a 60 point 2nd line center who can defend and kill penalties (doubtful...Zacha is good but less talented offensively) I think it's best to keep Horvat and try to groom him to the player we want better. He's definitely tricky. He's amazing at faceoffs, but his defense is definitely nothing to write home about. However, I'd argue that a 25-goal, 50-point guy is only a 3C on real strong teams. I'd guess that on maybe 20 or so teams, that's still a 2C. Also, from the bit I can tell, Zacha never plays on the PK, so he's not a defensive guy either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanuck94 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 17 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said: Bo's play has certainly slipped the last 2 seasons and it's tricky to say why. He was previously a great 20-30 goal scorer, 60+ point player and more importantly, when he was on the ice you knew about it. Recently he looks invisible out there and only really looks noticeable when he's scoring from that bumper slot shot on the PP. It's a tricky one with Horvat, he could easily just stay in that 2C spot for us long-term and eventually move down to 3C and retire a Canuck. I'd like to think we don't trade him right away, see what he can do next season when he has a full off-season with a good coach to prepare, but his last 80-90 games have been average for him to say the least. He's 26 now too and not getting any younger sadly, but he's still got some potential in there - some of these guys only peak in their late 20's-early 30's. What's really disappointing for me is that to be brutally honest, I remember in his rookie season he was on our bottom-6 lines and touted to be a defensive, shutdown center. He does play this way and is often against top lines, but he's been a career minus player. This season at -2 is actually his 2nd best year in that category, but never being a plus-player is quite a scary statistic. The true elite two-way centers like Bergeron are pretty tricky to come by and he's a +239 on his career, but even Kesler was slightly a plus-player in his prime (and got shelled later on in his career). Bo's certainly not the player we all expected or hoped he'd be - he's basically reduced now to a 20-30 goal scoring, 40-50 point player. On most good team's that's good for a 3rd line center but with the Canucks he's our 2nd line center. My issue is that good two-way centers are hard to come by. Lockwood isn't going to be much better and after him we have no one in our prospect pool, so unless we can trade for a 60 point 2nd line center who can defend and kill penalties (doubtful...Zacha is good but less talented offensively) I think it's best to keep Horvat and try to groom him to the player we want better. I believe Sat mentioned (correct me if I'm wrong) that Bo's metrics have not improved at all from his 3rd year. His production has increased with TOI. He's not a 2 way forward although he's a good 2C, but are we just aiming to be a good team or build a Stanley Cup contender? Not sure if Bo cuts it as a 2C on a contender and I don't know how much more of a ceiling Bo has. I don't think we have to look for a replacement. Miller is the perfect replacement. EP and Miller both have the ability to play PP and PK. Wingers will be easier and cheaper to find. 17 hours ago, -AJ- said: He's definitely tricky. He's amazing at faceoffs, but his defense is definitely nothing to write home about. However, I'd argue that a 25-goal, 50-point guy is only a 3C on real strong teams. I'd guess that on maybe 20 or so teams, that's still a 2C. Also, from the bit I can tell, Zacha never plays on the PK, so he's not a defensive guy either. Time for this organization to stop being okay with "good enough" and build towards being great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, MrCanuck94 said: I believe Sat mentioned (correct me if I'm wrong) that Bo's metrics have not improved at all from his 3rd year. His production has increased with TOI. He's not a 2 way forward although he's a good 2C, but are we just aiming to be a good team or build a Stanley Cup contender? Not sure if Bo cuts it as a 2C on a contender and I don't know how much more of a ceiling Bo has. I don't think we have to look for a replacement. Miller is the perfect replacement. EP and Miller both have the ability to play PP and PK. Wingers will be easier and cheaper to find. Time for this organization to stop being okay with "good enough" and build towards being great. You mean like the Leafs paying their Captain 11 per? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanuck94 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Alflives said: You mean like the Leafs paying their Captain 11 per? Auston Matthews is worth that contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 1 hour ago, MrCanuck94 said: Auston Matthews is worth that contract. Definitely. Possibly the best pure sniper not named Ovechkin in the past 5 years. There could probably even be an argument made that in the last five years alone, he's been the best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Just listening to Ian McIntyre on SN650, and he's saying Horvat is an essential player for the Canucks and could get more than Miller in a trade. Is he just a super homer? Is Bo really essential for the Canucks? I have a hard time believing he'd fetch more than Miller in a trade, but maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 1 hour ago, NUCKER67 said: Just listening to Ian McIntyre on SN650, and he's saying Horvat is an essential player for the Canucks and could get more than Miller in a trade. Is he just a super homer? Is Bo really essential for the Canucks? I have a hard time believing he'd fetch more than Miller in a trade, but maybe? Bo is pretty important, but I think the idea he would fetch more than Miller is pretty outlandish. Even if you factor in Bo's leadership, character, and age (2 years younger), I don't think he outvalues Miller. Miller is better on the ice in literally every way than Horvat. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 16 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said: Auston Matthews is worth that contract. Auston, "I pull my pants down" is the Loser Leafs' captain? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanuck94 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 11 hours ago, NUCKER67 said: Just listening to Ian McIntyre on SN650, and he's saying Horvat is an essential player for the Canucks and could get more than Miller in a trade. Is he just a super homer? Is Bo really essential for the Canucks? I have a hard time believing he'd fetch more than Miller in a trade, but maybe? Very homer take. No way he's worth more than Miller around the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) Horvat's 2 goal night moves him into 18th in all-time Canuck scoring 17. Greg Adams LW 489 179 190 369 18. Bo Horvat C 550 156 187 343 19. Patrik Sundstrom C 374 133 209 342 Edited February 25, 2022 by Wilbur 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 42 minutes ago, Wilbur said: Horvat's 2 goal night moves him into 18th in all-time Canuck scoring 17. Greg Adams LW 489 179 190 369 18. Bo Horvat C 550 156 187 343 20. Patrik Sundstrom C 374 133 209 342 Who's 19th? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 8 hours ago, -AJ- said: Who's 19th? Aha, Sundstrom....I can't count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB5 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 13 hours ago, Wilbur said: Horvat's 2 goal night moves him into 18th in all-time Canuck scoring 17. Greg Adams LW 489 179 190 369 18. Bo Horvat C 550 156 187 343 19. Patrik Sundstrom C 374 133 209 342 Bo's moved into some pretty incredible company, these are legendary Canuck players he is catching now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 The Bo situation is a tricky one. He's certainly not the two way stud we were all hoping for, and seems to have regressed in his last couple of seasons. That said, he's still the closest thing we have to one and eats a lot of hard minutes. Basically, we need him until we can find someone better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 13 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: The Bo situation is a tricky one. He's certainly not the two way stud we were all hoping for, and seems to have regressed in his last couple of seasons. That said, he's still the closest thing we have to one and eats a lot of hard minutes. Basically, we need him until we can find someone better. He does eat up a lot of hard minutes but no, he's not the two way stud that we were hoping for. He is kind of like Sutter in that he can eat up a lot of tough minutes but isn't a very good possession player. He generates offence off the rush, just like Sutter. While Sutter is an elite PKer, Bo isn't. But Bo is capable of scoring 10-15 more goals and 20-30 more points than Sutter. Bo has played on a bottom feeding team for too long and maybe that played a part in his game becoming what it is now. He needs to figure out if he's happy with the type of player he is now or if he wants to reinvent his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Bo has been in a bit of a slump, but seems to be getting out of it. The real problem is he no longer has a top 6 forward to play with. Pearson has had a down year, and the other winger changes quite often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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