Brandon Sutter | #20 | C

[higgyfan]

I get really tired of the continued suggestions that Sutter is overpaid, just because Bonino's contract is way less.  In retrospect, does anyone think the Canucks would have benefited in the last couple of seasons by having the extra 2m cap hit?  Really?

 

Bones is a UFA at the end of the season and I suspect his new contract will be comparable to Sutters'.  Considering that, I take Sutter in a heartbeat.

 

I checked the salary cap for Cs in the 3.5 to 5m range (not including young up and coming RFAs that signed their 1st contracts).  This is what I found...  

 

Filppula   33yrs    5m

Brassard  29yrs   5m

Brouwer   31yrs   4.5

Soderberg  31yrs  4.75

Lehtera    29yrs    4.7

Little   29yrs   4.7  UFA next season

Ennis  27yrs  4.6

Fisher  36yrs  4.4   UFA this season

Sutter   28yrs   4.37

Bozak      31yrs     4.2

Eakin     26yrs  3.85

Backlund  28yrs  3.55  UFA next season

Turris    27yrs   3.5  UFA next season

Ellers  27yrs   3.5

And let's not forget good 'ol Dave Bolland  30yrs    5.5m

 

So there you have it.  Backlund and Turris will likely get more $ after next season.  Little scores more goals, but I don't know the other aspects of his game.  He will be an UFA after next season and will likely get more $.  Fisher is better, but he's a 36yr old UFA at the end of this season.

 

I'm taking Sutter over the rest of these players.  4.37m is fair market value for what he offers.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/rankings/

Edited April 8, 2017 by higgyfan

[Gaudette Celly]

Have to remember he's not just a "third line center" but is one of the top-minute forwards every game because he plays in nearly all situations.

[Salmonberries]

I think he could be an excellent top six rw. I'm not sure why he is still being used mostly as a center when his skikllset seems to suggest rw? I believe he would score from the wing were he placed in a top six rw role.

[-AJ-]

1 hour ago, Salmonberries said:

I think he could be an excellent top six rw. I'm not sure why he is still being used mostly as a center when his skikllset seems to suggest rw? I believe he would score from the wing were he placed in a top six rw role.

He's stupid good at face offs.

[Vinny in Vancouver]

7 hours ago, Wilbur said:

I think Sutter gets a lot of flack because of his price tag (which isn't low but it's not ridiculously high either) and because Benning called him a foundational player.  When people hear foundational player they like to think McDavid, Crosby, Toews, etc.  Sutter is a straight lines player with a really good shot, great face-off and pk ability, that will play a lot of hard minutes.  Foundational or not, these types of guys aren't a dime and dozen and a key piece of a team.

I think Benning needs to lay off the F word from now on. It seems to be have become some sort of a curse word.

[Salmonberries]

6 minutes ago, ajhockey said:

He's stupid good at face offs.

He is for sure great at face offs. A face off-taking rw a la Trevor Linden would seem to be his ideal spot. To me anyway.

[-AJ-]

5 minutes ago, Salmonberries said:

He is for sure great at face offs. A face off-taking rw a la Trevor Linden would seem to be his ideal spot. To me anyway.

That could work too I guess.

[WeneedLumme]

2 hours ago, Salmonberries said:

He is for sure great at face offs. A face off-taking rw a la Trevor Linden would seem to be his ideal spot. To me anyway.

Worked fine when he was playing with the twins. Maybe his most valuable attribute is his versatility. Need a winger, need a centre, first, second, third, fourth line, PK, PP, whatever, he's your man.

[Father Ryan]

6 minutes ago, WeneedLumme said:

Worked fine when he was playing with the twins. Maybe his most valuable attribute is his versatility. Need a winger, need a centre, first, second, third, fourth line, PK, PP, whatever, he's your man.

^this. He's our Swiss Army knife. Doesn't do any one thing great (though he's pretty damn good at faceoffs), but he doesn't embarrass himself in any situations. I think @Salmonberries hit it on the mark. Put him on wing with a true playing center, and Sutter could (health provided) be a 20-25 goal scorer, right at 40-45 points. All things considered, I'll take him over any center on the team, except Horvat. Yes, even Hank. I don't know the advanced stats (nor do I really care, I like seeing the play; "money ball" be damned), but at this point in his career, I would hazard a guess that the +/- for Sutter is better than Hank (I could care less if a stat happens just because one of them is about to go off, or just came on, that's not a true indication of what the player actual did for/against the club). Couple that with possession due to face off wins, and Sutter's overall stats for the team are likely quite a bit better.

What I do agree with, is that we don't have a true #2 center. Sutter is not #2 center, more closely is a 3 that can "service" as a 2 for short stints. Hank has really regressed this year; hey, he's 37 and slowing down, which coupled with the fact that he wasn't the fastest skater around to start with, and that he is not that good (at best) at face offs, places him as a scoring 2-3 center, not a true #2 anymore. That, alone, is a big reason for our struggles.

[Ronaldoescobar]

Sutter is our first line centre and cornerstone of the franchise once the twins retire. 

[-AJ-]

1 hour ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

Sutter is our first line centre and cornerstone of the franchise once the twins retire. 

Why would you put Sutter over Horvat? Just curious.

[Hugor Hill]

Suttor so wish he wasn't traded.

He probably hates it here.

[48MPHSlapShot]

2 hours ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

Sutter is our first line centre and cornerstone of the franchise once the twins retire. 

uhh...

 

wut?

[Cramarossa]

8 hours ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

Sutter is our first line centre and cornerstone of the franchise once the twins retire. 

Homie quit drinking! 

[WeneedLumme]

On 4/8/2017 at 6:31 PM, Father Ryan said:

^this. He's our Swiss Army knife. Doesn't do any one thing great (though he's pretty damn good at faceoffs), but he doesn't embarrass himself in any situations. I think @Salmonberries hit it on the mark. Put him on wing with a true playing center, and Sutter could (health provided) be a 20-25 goal scorer, right at 40-45 points. All things considered, I'll take him over any center on the team, except Horvat. Yes, even Hank. I don't know the advanced stats (nor do I really care, I like seeing the play; "money ball" be damned), but at this point in his career, I would hazard a guess that the +/- for Sutter is better than Hank (I could care less if a stat happens just because one of them is about to go off, or just came on, that's not a true indication of what the player actual did for/against the club). Couple that with possession due to face off wins, and Sutter's overall stats for the team are likely quite a bit better.

What I do agree with, is that we don't have a true #2 center. Sutter is not #2 center, more closely is a 3 that can "service" as a 2 for short stints. Hank has really regressed this year; hey, he's 37 and slowing down, which coupled with the fact that he wasn't the fastest skater around to start with, and that he is not that good (at best) at face offs, places him as a scoring 2-3 center, not a true #2 anymore. That, alone, is a big reason for our struggles.

Hank was 45th in NHL center scoring this year. And Dan was 34th in scoring for left wingers. Those are both still solidly in 2nd line range. And I expect bounce back years for both of them next season. I'm pretty sure that they will have better linemates than Megna or Chaput. And they have a lot of pride and determination and will be avoiding the top shutdown guys for the whole year, because partway through this year opposing coaches started focussing on Bo's line. With Granny or Goldy or Sutter or whoever on their wing, they will probably both get back into the top 30 in scoring for their positions. And if Sutter plays on their wing, I expect him to hit at least 20 goals.

Edited April 11, 2017 by WeneedLumme

[Nave]

 

On 4/8/2017 at 3:09 PM, Salmonberries said:

He is for sure great at face offs. A face off-taking rw a la Trevor Linden would seem to be his ideal spot. To me anyway.

If we draft a center (which is very likely), we could have Sutter play RW and take face offs for them. That'd be a great way to shelter them.
Or, we could have great center depth through all four lines. 

 

[khay]

On 4/10/2017 at 8:22 PM, WeneedLumme said:

Hank was 45th in NHL center scoring this year. And Dan was 34th in scoring for left wingers. Those are both still solidly in 2nd line range. And I expect bounce back years for both of them next season. I'm pretty sure that they will have better linemates than Megna or Chaput. And they have a lot of pride and determination and will be avoiding the top shutdown guys for the whole year, because partway through this year opposing coaches started focussing on Bo's line. With Granny or Goldy or Sutter or whoever on their wing, they will probably both get back into the top 30 in scoring for their positions. And if Sutter plays on their wing, I expect him to hit at least 20 goals.

The problem with this statement is that the Sedins were played as a first line players and yet, their production was that of the second line caliber. I guess what I'm saying is that those scoring numbers would need to be properly normalized to really be useful for evaluating the players. For example, Horvat playing fourth line role in his first season and yet, putting up 25 points in 68 games, a third line player number, is one of the reasons why we were all so excited about him. Sedins putting up second line number when being played as a first liners, is not encouraging.

 

However, I do agree with you that they will bounce back as long as they are deployed in a second line role. As long as they get to play with a skilled player that knows how to get the the puck, then get to spaces to receive the puck back and knows how to shoot the puck, I think they will put up similar numbers as this season despite playing less important minutes. I think for offensive output, I prefer Goldobin, Granlund, then Sutter in that order as Sedins' linemate. For defensive purposes, I prefer Sutter, Granlund, Goldobin in that order. So in other words, I Granlund is a safe choice, whereas Goldobin is a risky choice that could payoff. 

 

As for Sutter, a thought occurred to me while watching Kesler shadow McDavid in the playoffs. Sure, Sutter isn't as great a skater as Kesler but he is pretty good himself and he is a great checker that is capable of becoming a very good shutdown centerman and I would prefer Sutter to be used as such rather than playing him on RW for the Sedins, where expectation will be to produce goals.  

 

I think the organization/Green should have Sutter hone the art of defence, if so, I think he has the capabilities to reach Malholtra's level in shutdown role and given the fact that he has better offensive instincts than Manny, he will be able to generate offence from defence (turnovers and quick counter attacks) and still be able to put up 15-20 goals regularly. Right now, Sutter is asked to do both and I don't think that's the correct way to use this player.

 

 

[Boudrias]

18 hours ago, khay said:

The problem with this statement is that the Sedins were played as a first line players and yet, their production was that of the second line caliber. I guess what I'm saying is that those scoring numbers would need to be properly normalized to really be useful for evaluating the players. For example, Horvat playing fourth line role in his first season and yet, putting up 25 points in 68 games, a third line player number, is one of the reasons why we were all so excited about him. Sedins putting up second line number when being played as a first liners, is not encouraging.

 

However, I do agree with you that they will bounce back as long as they are deployed in a second line role. As long as they get to play with a skilled player that knows how to get the the puck, then get to spaces to receive the puck back and knows how to shoot the puck, I think they will put up similar numbers as this season despite playing less important minutes. I think for offensive output, I prefer Goldobin, Granlund, then Sutter in that order as Sedins' linemate. For defensive purposes, I prefer Sutter, Granlund, Goldobin in that order. So in other words, I Granlund is a safe choice, whereas Goldobin is a risky choice that could payoff. 

 

As for Sutter, a thought occurred to me while watching Kesler shadow McDavid in the playoffs. Sure, Sutter isn't as great a skater as Kesler but he is pretty good himself and he is a great checker that is capable of becoming a very good shutdown centerman and I would prefer Sutter to be used as such rather than playing him on RW for the Sedins, where expectation will be to produce goals.  

 

I think the organization/Green should have Sutter hone the art of defence, if so, I think he has the capabilities to reach Malholtra's level in shutdown role and given the fact that he has better offensive instincts than Manny, he will be able to generate offence from defence (turnovers and quick counter attacks) and still be able to put up 15-20 goals regularly. Right now, Sutter is asked to do both and I don't think that's the correct way to use this player.

 

 

IMHO it is not the question whether the Twins can put up 2nd line minutes or not. The question is how many vet forwards do you carry on the forward group? Depending on position what do those vets provide for the younger players as they develop their games. How much TOI do the vets take away from younger players?

 

It is all a balancing act for Green to figure out. If he is true to his word he will role 4 lines and that by the numbers reduces the Twins ice time. 16 -18 minutes would be in the ballpark.   

[Zedlee]

On 2017-4-8 at 0:48 PM, Hutton Wink said:

Have to remember he's not just a "third line center" but is one of the top-minute forwards every game because he plays in nearly all situations.

And all that skill helped us to a 29th place finish.  

 

At this point, we're 3-5 years away from being competitive, so Sutter is just a placeholder.  He'll be irrelevant and likely gone when we're competitive again.   

[terrible.dee]

On 4/8/2017 at 0:48 PM, Hutton Wink said:

Have to remember he's not just a "third line center" but is one of the top-minute forwards every game because he plays in nearly all situations.

 

And we always lose, that tells you right there which parts need switching