Nave Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, The 5th Line said: Does it though? Good. Not great. Could be a lot more dynamic offensively, like @kloubek said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 12 hours ago, MoneypuckOverlord said: I also think he will be a deterrent from guys like KASSler Martin, tkachuk. Just look at Boston the other night. Marchand didn’t dare do his antics because of the presence of Gudbranson. We also need someone to prevent boeser, pettersson from being slapped around, ribs jabbed, jabs to their face , and that’s what Gudbranson brings. I like the committee approach too. Imagine Gadjovich KANE Archie and Guddy all on the ice if a team like Boston even looks at us the wrong way - one in all in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 14 hours ago, flickyoursedin said: While I agree you don’t want to put too much pressure on a rookie but those are all the aspects of Juolevi’s game that he thrives in. Yes, but I think Juolevi should start with a well rounded defenceman like Tanev. Tanev defends well and moves puck well. If Juolevi is in trouble, he can defer to Tanev. With Gud, he can't. Once Juolevi gains confidence, then he can play with Gud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 4 hours ago, The 5th Line said: Okay send me over the list of notable former and current NHL players who are among that list of "top all time scoring U20 defenceman" from the worlds what? 5th best league? He was a 5th overall pick to the worlds best league, he should be absolutely dominating in Finland right now, not getting healthy scratched orplaying 3rd pairing minutes. He started off great and it was nice to see, but 1 goal in his last 23 games and a steep drop in production overall is concerning. You can't just use the argument "player x is one of best U20 players in league y" without taking draft position, and the quality of said league in to consideration I don't completely disagree. I think to certain degree, OJ's play at WJC and for London were inflated thanks to superstar teammates. I think one can argue if Sergachev was the better defenceman than OJ and they would have valid points. Although I don't see OJ as becoming a top defenceman like Karlsson, Doughty, or Hedman anymore, I certainly see him being capable of becoming a top pairing defenceman that plays an essential role in breakouts and running PP. I think he needs good teammates to truly shine whereas top defencemen of the league shine regardless of the teammates. In fact, they make the others look better. And up front, it looks like we are going to have good forwards that will help maximize OJ's abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloubek Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 46 minutes ago, khay said: Yes, but I think Juolevi should start with a well rounded defenceman like Tanev. Tanev defends well and moves puck well. If Juolevi is in trouble, he can defer to Tanev. With Gud, he can't. Once Juolevi gains confidence, then he can play with Gud. Yeah I agree with this, because Juolevi is supposed to be an all-around defenseman. That means sound defensively but also having the ability to score; the only way he is going to be confident in contributing offensively is if he knows that if he turns it over or runs into trouble not all hope is lost because Tanev is back there reading the play and covering for him. I agree that Guddy isn't that guy. He always looks surprised when the puck gets in his general vicinity and seems to want to get rid of it like a hot potato. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bissurnette Posted February 21, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 21, 2018 4 hours ago, The 5th Line said: He was a 5th overall pick to the worlds best league, he should be absolutely dominating in Finland right now, not getting healthy scratched orplaying 3rd pairing minutes. He started off great and it was nice to see, but 1 goal in his last 23 games and a steep drop in production overall is concerning. You can't just use the argument "player x is one of best U20 players in league y" without taking draft position, and the quality of said league in to consideration Jesus, what is it with you and crapping all over our prospects? Why should a 19 year old dominate a men's league in his first year playing in it? Is it not a harder league to play in than the OHL? Instead of looking at his choice to play against men as a positive, you're here bitching about the fact that playing in a men's league is not a joke to him. So what if he was chosen 5th overall, he's not allowed time to develop? Defensemen take time. Provorov, Werenski, Fleury are all examples of Dmen drafted recently in the top 10, and they all took a few years before they got to the NHL. Even when he gets to the NHL, he'll need time (years) to learn. Relax. This is like the Virtanen thread all over again. For the record, if you go back to my posts before the draft, I really wanted us to take Tkachuk but we didn't so I have moved on, and my ego isn't so big that I would rather be right than give the prospect some time to develop. Take up yoga or something. 2 2 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Vanuckles said: Jesus, what is it with you and crapping all over our prospects? Why should a 19 year old dominate a men's league in his first year playing in it? Is it not a harder league to play in than the OHL? Instead of looking at his choice to play against men as a positive, you're here bitching about the fact that playing in a men's league is not a joke to him. So what if he was chosen 5th overall, he's not allowed time to develop? Defensemen take time. Provorov, Werenski, Fleury are all examples of Dmen drafted recently in the top 10, and they all took a few years before they got to the NHL. Even when he gets to the NHL, he'll need time (years) to learn. Relax. This is like the Virtanen thread all over again. For the record, if you go back to my posts before the draft, I really wanted us to take Tkachuk but we didn't so I have moved on, and my ego isn't so big that I would rather be right than give the prospect some time to develop. Take up yoga or something. Werenski was in the NHL in his draft +2 year, so 1 year of development in the NCAA. Same with Provorov, except he spent his draft +1 in the WHL. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bissurnette Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 On 2/15/2018 at 11:57 AM, -Vintage Canuck- said: 1 hour ago, The 5th Line said: If you go back and read my posts you will see that I wanted juolevi over tkachuk sooo yeeaahh. And if I'm not mistaken I think Werenski played in his D+2 And I think provorov might have as well, also I explained why he should be dominating the 5th best men's league in the world.Crapping all over our prospects? That's a bit of a stretch don't ya think? I think he has the skills and vision to be a top pairing type guy when it's all said and done but he needs to up the intensity and become a much better skater if he plans to do so. 1 hour ago, Horvat is a Boss said: Werenski was in the NHL in his draft +2 year, so 1 year of development in the NCAA. Same with Provorov, except he spent his draft +1 in the WHL. Well would you look at that... I'm going to choose to be encouraged by his coach's remarks. A coach seems like a good source to trust when it comes to player evaluation, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe-max Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 28 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: Those comments don't really have anything to do with what I said. He's a good prospect that will make it to the NHL, I never disputed that, I agreed with a poster who finds his drop in production worrisome in regards to the type of player we want him to become. Admitted, if you expect him to be the next Orr, Lidström or Karlsson you might get disappointed. For me, if you becomes a Sami Salo without injuries or turns into a Lumme, Ristolainen or Numminen, I'd be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Vanuckles said: Well would you look at that... I'm going to choose to be encouraged by his coach's remarks. A coach seems like a good source to trust when it comes to player evaluation, don't you think? I literally didn't say anything about Juolevi, you don't have to be so defensive. I told you how long Werenski and Provorov took to make the NHL since you brought it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuzy Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 11 hours ago, The 5th Line said: Okay send me over the list of notable former and current NHL players who are among that list of "top all time scoring U20 defenceman" from the worlds what? 5th best league? He was a 5th overall pick to the worlds best league, he should be absolutely dominating in Finland right now, not getting healthy scratched orplaying 3rd pairing minutes. He started off great and it was nice to see, but 1 goal in his last 23 games and a steep drop in production overall is concerning. You can't just use the argument "player x is one of best U20 players in league y" without taking draft position, and the quality of said league in to consideration I think for the most part he has met or exceeded the expectations set out for him prior to the season. Every player goes through slumps and as far as I'm aware, it's not as if Juolevi's production has tailed off solely due to individual reasons - it seems like his team's play has also declined. I also believe he was drafted to be more of a 2-way force rather than a pure offensive defenseman. Need I mention he outplayed Heiskanen (higher draft pick!) in the world juniors, AND has had similar offensive output to Heiskanen up until this point. Also, who knows if he'd have been the 10th-12th overall pick if Benning hadn't drafted him. I would say he'd be looking pretty darn good at this point if he had dropped that far. Handing you a list of notable former and current NHL players that meet the criteria for top all time scoring U20 Liiga defensemen is a little pointless don't you think? Every player develops differently, not to mention how the game has changed throughout the years. The same applies to Pettersson - near the top of all time SHL U20 points/ points per game - and as much as I love the guy - who knows if he'll bust or not, he hasn't played an NHL game yet. Correlation with players who played on entirely different teams in different eras does not imply causation. Save your opinion for when Juolevi plays a more highly structured game with better teammates - more suitable to his play style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herberts Vasiljevs Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, joe-max said: Admitted, if you expect him to be the next Orr, Lidström or Karlsson you might get disappointed. For me, if you becomes a Sami Salo without injuries or turns into a Lumme, Ristolainen or Numminen, I'd be happy. I'll take a Teppo Numminen comparable please! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bissurnette Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 On 2/21/2018 at 5:45 PM, Horvat is a Boss said: I literally didn't say anything about Juolevi, you don't have to be so defensive. I told you how long Werenski and Provorov took to make the NHL since you brought it up. You just got included in the post, but I meant to include a reply to your quote. substitute Werenski and Provorov with Nurse and Dumba... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bissurnette Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 On 2/21/2018 at 4:55 PM, The 5th Line said: Those comments don't really have anything to do with what I said. He's a good prospect that will make it to the NHL, I never disputed that, I agreed with a poster who finds his drop in production worrisome in regards to the type of player we want him to become. Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Plan B. That Ollie matures exactly when we need him, for our first playoff run in 2-3 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleThorn Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 38 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said: Plan B. That Ollie matures exactly when we need him, for our first playoff run in 2-3 years. I think that JB has a huge issue with when our deep list of NHL bound prospects actually play in the NHL. Anything more than 2 or 3 in any one year might be too hard on the team. Imagine 6 prospects arriving at the same time ! Exciting, but not a rebuild positive. OJ's arrival might be dependent on how many other prospects make the 2018/ 19 roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 hour ago, SingleThorn said: I think that JB has a huge issue with when our deep list of NHL bound prospects actually play in the NHL. Anything more than 2 or 3 in any one year might be too hard on the team. Imagine 6 prospects arriving at the same time ! Exciting, but not a rebuild positive. OJ's arrival might be dependent on how many other prospects make the 2018/ 19 roster. Boston has 6 rookies in their lineup I believe. 3 points out of 1st place with games in hand. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SingleThorn Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Boudrias said: Boston has 6 rookies in their lineup I believe. 3 points out of 1st place with games in hand. True. Boston, especially at forward, are way ahead of us. Bergeron, Krejci and Marchand give them way more leeway. On defence, I'm a little surprised that they have done so well. Carlo and McAvoy are surprisingly good. I think we would crash and burn with 6 rookies next year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 minute ago, SingleThorn said: True. Boston, especially at forward, are way ahead of us. Bergeron, Krejci and Marchand give them way more leeway. On defence, I'm a little surprised that they have done so well. Carlo and McAvoy are surprisingly good. I think we would crash and burn with 6 rookies next year. Torts said as much about our team's core his year too. We need youth. It's a young man's game now. It's so fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeBee51 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 13 minutes ago, SingleThorn said: True. Boston, especially at forward, are way ahead of us. Bergeron, Krejci and Marchand give them way more leeway. On defence, I'm a little surprised that they have done so well. Carlo and McAvoy are surprisingly good. I think we would crash and burn with 6 rookies next year. like the way we crashed and burned without 6 rookies this year? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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