2017 NHL Draft - Chicago, Illinois June 23-24 2017

[Vinny in Vancouver]

4 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

We have leaders, Kane isn't a leader (either), Kessel isn't a leader, heck Messier was the bigger leader than Gretzky, but who would you want if you had a chance to pick either.  Not sure Gretzky has ever done a pull up. 

 

Not saying Mittlestad is going to be a star, but he isn't ranked at the top of the draft for leadership or strength.  

 

EmW

I think you guys are all misreading the concerns here - it's not about doubting Mittelstadt's strength or skill; it's about common sense. The form he showed in the picture shows someone who didn't care enough to prepare (either that or he is injured or deliberately tanking it). If you were in his shoes, would any of you not even bother preparing for everything in the small list of combine tests given to you by the league? If your honest answer is 'yes', I'd love to know why.

 

Henrik did pull-ups. Why wouldn't you think Wayne couldn't do one? If you think that Wayne produced those numbers just because of his hockey IQ, you're mistaken. The guy's fit.

[Nucker 67]

1 minute ago, J.R. said:

 

 

Maybe he focused on things he thought were more important than a test that's pretty meaningless in regards to hockey skills?

I wonder what those things he considered more important were. Even watching an interview with him, he didn't appear confident and sure of himself, more awkward and out of place. He's gonna get creamed in the Pacific. If he can't do a pull up, how is he going to take big hits from Lucic, Brown, Ferland, Getzlaf, etc on a nightly basis? Skill, in today's game, will only get you so far. Gretzky never had to worry about hits and the physical game much, he had McSorely and Semenko protecting him.

 

1. Vilardi

2. Makar

3. Tippett

[GODSRAGE]

3 minutes ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

I think you guys are all misreading the concerns here - it's not about doubting Mittelstadt's strength or skill; it's about common sense. The form he showed in the picture shows someone who didn't care enough to prepare (either that or he is injured or deliberately tanking it). If you were in his shoes, would any of you not even bother preparing for everything in the small list of combine tests given to you by the league? If your honest answer is 'yes', I'd love to know why.

 

Henrik did pull-ups. Why wouldn't you think Wayne couldn't do one? If you think that Wayne produced those numbers just because of his hockey IQ, you're mistaken. The guy's fit.

Couldn't agree more. Lack of preparation lead to this result. I'm still on board for us taking Glass and perhaps Necas to fill the C need!

[aGENT]

Just now, NUCKER67 said:

I wonder what those things he considered more important were. Even watching an interview with him, he didn't appear confident and sure of himself, more awkward and out of place. He's gonna get creamed in the Pacific. If he can't do a pull up, how is he going to take big hits from Lucic, Brown, Ferland, Getzlaf, etc on a nightly basis? Skill, in today's game, will only get you so far. Gretzky never had to worry about hits and the physical game much, he had McSorely and Semenko protecting him.

 

1. Vilardi

2. Makar

3. Tippett

He had no problem playing and competing with big guys this past year. He's a big boy. When he does get in stronger,  he'll be even harder to play against. 

[Vinny in Vancouver]

2 minutes ago, R3aL said:

There are quite a few tests to prepare for - you realize some of these kids don't even start lifting weights until they are 17? Because they are playing and practicing so much. For all you know he was preparing and he went from benching the bar to being able to do 1 rep at 135. Kids develop differently and you dont know the full story. Easy enough if it was because of lack of caring or preparation that would be easily uncovered in an interview. And all strength training can be shored up with professional trainers and nutritionists and hard work. No problem for a pro athlete. Harder for a kid in highschool devoting all his time to his hockey skills.

My son played competitive hockey during his high school years so I believe I know a bit of what I'm talking about here. None of the kids who get to that level do it without having gone through countless hours of stick handling, power skating, checking, shooting, weight training classes. The only way you could have a pull-up with that form is if you were injured or slacking off. 

[R3aL]

Just now, vinny_in_vancouver said:

My son played competitive hockey during his high school years so I believe I know a bit of what I'm talking about here. None of the kids who get to that level do it without having gone through countless hours of stick handling, power skating, checking, shooting, weight training classes. The only way you could have a pull-up with that form is if you were injured or slacking off. 

Makes sense to me - I would add these other possibilities too or naturally strong, or have a parent/coach that pushes your training early.

[messier's_elbow]

15 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I need time to go over combine results...but yup.

I hope Dallas and Colorado feel the same way you do.

[logic]

Anyone know where Henri Jokiharju is projected to go? 

6' 170 pound D , posted 48 points in 71 games for Portland 

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=196298

 

If he is available with our second I would definitely take him.

[Phat Fingers]

14 minutes ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

I think you guys are all misreading the concerns here - it's not about doubting Mittelstadt's strength or skill; it's about common sense. The form he showed in the picture shows someone who didn't care enough to prepare (either that or he is injured or deliberately tanking it). If you were in his shoes, would any of you not even bother preparing for everything in the small list of combine tests given to you by the league? If your honest answer is 'yes', I'd love to know why.

 

Henrik did pull-ups. Why wouldn't you think Wayne couldn't do one? If you think that Wayne produced those numbers just because of his hockey IQ, you're mistaken. The guy's fit.

My point isn't to defend Mittlestad, just to show the relative value of the 'pullup' to skilled players and that not every player oozes leadership in a draft and not every player needs to be a leader to have a great career. 

 

Vlardi oozes leadership, but not as much skill as others. Patrick is skilled, not a leader and is likely to be 1st OA.  

 

Your POV is valid to a degree.  It doesn't stop me from picking a player like Mittlestad, though it is concerning that he can't do a pull-up properly, I am sure he can learn after he has been selected. 

 

EmW

[ForsbergTheGreat]

33 minutes ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

Ah, so preparation for something expected by the league and other GM's is not a meaningful skill for you, then. Got it. Carry on.

Expected? What is expected?  This is a the draft combine, these results mean next to nothing.  It's really not that hard to understand.  After June 28th will anyone look back on these test results? There is zero impact how many pull ups a kid does on draft rankings.   The interviews is where Gm will determine character and leadership, not the pull up bar.  The fact that so many people are making a deal about this is laughable.

 

Look at the conclusions you yourself have jump to.  "He couldn't do a pull up, means he wasn't prepare, means he has bad character/no leadership"....haha really?

[FireGillis]

22 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

. If he can't do a pull up, how is he going to take big hits from Lucic, Brown, Ferland, Getzlaf, etc on a nightly basis?

Well, he's probably going to college for at least 2 years, so has plenty of time to add strength.  I have zero concerns about him not being able to do one pull up.

[AV's Coin]

15 hours ago, WeatherWise said:

Pettersson and Necas are different players.

 

Necas is a speedster who always plays the game at a high tempo. He races around the ice looking to forecheck and open up space with his speed. There isn't much finesse in his game, but there is a lot of speed, and he is a competent playmaker. Some have criticized him for staying too much along the perimeter at times, as one of his primary strategies is to skate around the outside looking to create passing lanes. There is more grit in his game than there is in Pettersson's, as there are times when he can crash and bang along the boards and play a bit of a grinding game. That said, he is still rather light and shied away from that type of game at times this year.

 

Pettersson is a finesse player whose first few steps aren't particularly explosive. He seemed slower this year than he did last season, but his speed is fairly good. He isn't a physical player, nor is there any power in his game. He doesn't win a lot of battles along the boards -- even last year at the U18s when he was one of the oldest players in the tournament, he could only maintain his ground along the boards, but did not win too many battles. In fact, one of his greatest problems against older competition is his lack of ability to stay on his skates; he needs to work on his balance. He possesses great puck skills, however, and has very good vision.

 

Necas measured at 6'1'', 178 lbs yesterday. Pettersson measured at 6'1.75'', 165 lbs.

 

Here is some footage from one of Pettersson's performances this season with Timra IK, courtesy of ihaveyuidonttouchme; he is #14 in white:

 

 

Petterson description almost sounds like a Sedin.

[R3aL]

3 minutes ago, AV's Coin said:

Petterson description almost sounds like a Sedin.

Be pretty cool to have the Sedins and Eriksson mentor best friends Dahlen and Pettersson..

[Vinny in Vancouver]

2 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

Your POV is valid to a degree.  It doesn't stop me from picking a player like Mittlestad, though it is concerning that he can't do a pull-up properly, I am sure he can learn after he has been selected. 

So I actually like the kid. I had my C rankings as follows pre-combine:

1. Hischier - Positives: shot, very fast skating, speed, skill, creativity, IQ, plays both ends of the ice well, work ethic. Negatives: pre-combine, size and overall athletic ability (NOTE: post-combine: none).
2. Patrick - Positives: shot, leadership, skill, strength, IQ, physicality, plays both end of the ice very well, work ethic, puck protection, height, mean. Negatives: boring style, injury concerns, more improvement on skating.
3. Mittelstadt - Positives: skating, speed, skill, creativity, shot, work ethic, loyalty to teammates. Negatives: pre-combine: level of competition.
4. Vilardi - Positives: strength (can't be moved), skill, IQ (has a spider sense of the whole ice puck, players on offense), work ethic, shot, puck protection. Negatives: skating, speed.
5. Glass - Positives: skating, some creativity, height, height, work ethic, mean, skill. Negatives: easy to knock off the puck, passes seem to get intercepted a lot, doesn't always anticipate the next play
6. Pettersson - Positives: skill, shot, height, skating (I think it's good enough), IQ. Negatives: size, easy to push around

Post-combine, I think Vilardi's now a solid 3 on my list, and it's a toss-up for the rest.

[Vinny in Vancouver]

10 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Expected? What is expected?  This is a the draft combine, these results mean next to nothing.  It's really not that hard to understand.  After June 28th will anyone look back on these test results? There is zero impact how many pull ups a kid does on draft rankings.   The interviews is where Gm will determine character and leadership, not the pull up bar.  The fact that so many people are making a deal about this is laughable.

 

Look at the conclusions you yourself have jump to.  "He couldn't do a pull up, means he wasn't prepare, means he has bad character/no leadership"....haha really?

So the type of tests that's going to happen at the Combine going to need to do is unexpected to you??? O-K then.

[Blömqvist]

Definitely starting to look like the 3rd overall pick is available. If it really is, Benning should be all over it as it looks like the price could be for Tanev and a cap dump(s) coming back our way. Of the available RHD out there, Tanev seems like the best choice for the Stars. Barrie would be redundant on a team with Klingberg and Honka on the right side. Trouba could be a good fit as well but does not have as good of a shutdown game as Tanev does. Trouba does provide more points, but the issue with Dallas is not scoring but defending. 

 

Should the Canucks land the 3rd overall pick, we should consider getting a defenseman with one of our high picks and a centre with the other.

 

3rd: Vilardi or Heiskanen

5th: Makar or Pettersson

 

This gives us a potential 1st line playmaking centre and a potential 1st pairing offensive defenseman in our system, two of the hardest positions to fill. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

53 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

We have leaders, Kane isn't a leader (either), Kessel isn't a leader, heck Messier was the bigger leader than Gretzky, but who would you want if you had a chance to pick either.  Not sure Gretzky has ever done a pull up. 

 

Not saying Mittlestad is going to be a star, but he isn't ranked at the top of the draft for leadership or strength.  

 

EmW

 

When I scored 90 goals I could do 10 sit-ups, when I could do 90 sit-ups I scored 10 goals. -Wayne Gretzky on Combine Testing.

[Diamonds]

7 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Expected? What is expected?  This is a the draft combine, these results mean next to nothing.  It's really not that hard to understand.  After June 28th will anyone look back on these test results? There is zero impact how many pull ups a kid does on draft rankings.   The interviews is where Gm will determine character and leadership, not the pull up bar.  The fact that so many people are making a deal about this is laughable.

 

Look at the conclusions you yourself have jump to.  "He couldn't do a pull up, means he wasn't prepare, means he has bad character/no leadership"....haha really?

What is expected? It's a pretty much mandatory fitness test run by the NHL in front of the leagues GMs and scouts. No, in the end the results don't really matter much, but it is expected that you come somewhat prepared to showcase yourself infront of the people who might draft you.

 

If there is an undisclosed injury we find out about later, than all of this is pretty much moot. However, it's not like he came straight from playing in the Memorial Cup finals. Mittelstadt had around a month and a half to train specifically for the combine (a chance to showcase himself). Especially if he hasn't done much weight training previously, one can make pretty big gains in a month in the gym at age 18 (I actually think the 1 rep bench press is worse than the no rep pull-up).

 

He does have a pretty impressive skillset and is clearly one of the most skilled players in the draft. But you can't say there is no expectation to come somewhat prepared for a league mandated fitness test.

 

 

[GB5]

38 minutes ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

I think you guys are all misreading the concerns here - it's not about doubting Mittelstadt's strength or skill; it's about common sense. The form he showed in the picture shows someone who didn't care enough to prepare (either that or he is injured or deliberately tanking it). If you were in his shoes, would any of you not even bother preparing for everything in the small list of combine tests given to you by the league? If your honest answer is 'yes', I'd love to know why.

 

Henrik did pull-ups. Why wouldn't you think Wayne couldn't do one? If you think that Wayne produced those numbers just because of his hockey IQ, you're mistaken. The guy's fit.

My question with Mittelstadt is why did he return to play high school this year instead of playing junior for a full year. I would think this would have helped answer some questions about the skill level he was playing against. He didn't go back to his junior team until after the high school season ended. A developing player should be seeking out opportunities to play at the highest level he can to prove he belongs there. This is like a Canadian kid opting to go back and play his final season of midget instead of playing in the CHL or BCJHL, etc.

 

I remember long ago a Canuck draft pick doing the same thing, Patrick White. It seemed the mystery of his skill level intigued the Canucks enough to gamble on him wheras once he hit college, his overall skill and dedication to improving wasn't there.

[Alflives]

12 minutes ago, Blömqvist said:

Definitely starting to look like the 3rd overall pick is available. If it really is, Benning should be all over it as it looks like the price could be for Tanev and a cap dump(s) coming back our way. Of the available RHD out there, Tanev seems like the best choice for the Stars. Barrie would be redundant on a team with Klingberg and Honka on the right side. Trouba could be a good fit as well but does not have as good of a shutdown game as Tanev does. Trouba does provide more points, but the issue with Dallas is not scoring but defending. 

 

Should the Canucks land the 3rd overall pick, we should consider getting a defenseman with one of our high picks and a centre with the other.

 

3rd: Vilardi or Heiskanen

5th: Makar or Pettersson

 

This gives us a potential 1st line playmaking centre and a potential 1st pairing offensive defenseman in our system, two of the hardest positions to fill. 

If we came out of this draft with Vilardi and Makar I would be really happy.  Those two look like they have potential to be impact players for sure.  I wonder if Vilardi might even surpass the top two guys in this draft?  Makar could be even better than them all, if his ceiling is close to Erik Karlsson's.