Benning on Team 1040 December 9

[CeeBee51]

8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And that ALL JB.  We should have at least two guys pushing for spots in each position.  Really, up front we have Bo, and that's it.  JV, Boeser, Lockwood have all yet to prove.  Baer and Granlund are really not that good, are they?

So the guys from JB's first draft are now  19/20. How is the 20-22 gap his fault. Most of his draftees are still in junior or college. Should he have traded more picks for guys in the 20-22 age group?  Can't have it both ways I don't think.

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, CeeBee51 said:

So the guys from JB's first draft are now  19/20. How is the 20-22 gap his fault. Most of his draftees are still in junior or college. Should he have traded more picks for guys in the 20-22 age group?  Can't have it both ways I don't think.

He ABSOFRIGGINLUETLY should have traded aging vets for more picks.  The problem is (has been) JB tried to have it both ways: win while rebuilding, and IT IS CLEARLY NOT WORKING. We are neither winn No nor rebuilding.

[CeeBee51]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

He ABSOFRIGGINLUETLY should have traded aging vets for more picks.  The problem is (has been) JB tried to have it both ways: win while rebuilding, and IT IS CLEARLY NOT WORKING. We are neither winn No nor rebuilding.

But picks won't fill that 20-22 year old puddle. Jeepers!

[ForsbergTheGreat]

19 minutes ago, CeeBee51 said:

So the guys from JB's first draft are now  19/20. How is the 20-22 gap his fault. Most of his draftees are still in junior or college. Should he have traded more picks for guys in the 20-22 age group?  Can't have it both ways I don't think.

Why did we need to fill an age gap?  It's not like there is a league requirement for having sufficient ages throughout the line up. 

 

The only reason the term "age gap" exists is to get more mature players to help speed/smooth the transition over.  But the only way the gap actually gets filled is by having quality players that can either become the new core, or are good enough to provide an impact to help the team remain competitive. 

 

Looking at the team when JB took over, you can see why it made sense to try and speed up that process.  Sedins are 3 years away from retiring. Juice and Hammer were right near the end.  And most 18 year old prospects take at least 3 years to become regular NHLers and another 3-5 to become impactful players.  That leaves a gap between the old core and the new core that had very little pieces to begin building with.  Chances are in that gap canucks would have a hard time being competitive and would likely bottom out. 

 

So we went out and found 20-25 years olds to speed that process up.  We also went out and found some UFA vets to keep this team even more competitive.  

 

The problems is, the majority of those players were high risk (reclamation projects) and most of them didn't last two years, let alone become part of the new core or impact players to keep this team competitive. The fear of bottoming out post sedins is a wash since this team is now a bottom feeder in back to back yes.  And there's a lot of missed opportunity in additional drafting.

 

Drafting, that's the good news, drafting has been rock solid.  The picks that we did make have been promising. Literally every pick JB has made looks to have NHL potential. Had we missed on a few picks like most GM's usually do, things would look a lot worse. 

[Philthy]

Jim is saying all the right things even though these questions have been asked numerous time's, even dating to two seasons ago.

Acquiring pick's, trading NTC's, veterans and prospects these questions are usually asked to teams that are rebuilding.

 

Nearly nothing has changed and every interview is just sounding like the peanut gallery.

 

[samurai]

2 hours ago, Hutton Wink said:

 

75% of the roster turned over in just two years is not substantial?  Right now there are only 4 players active from back then.

 

Yes, but it is these 4 players that have the management thinking we can build a playoff team around them, and that we owe it to them to do so.  This has resulted in losing Hamhuis for nothing, and signings like Sutter, Dorsett, and now Eriksson.  It also has meant losing McCann for a 'NHL proven' D who is absolutley horrible.   

[CeeBee51]

11 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Why did we need to fill an age gap?  It's not like there is a league requirement for having sufficient ages throughout the line up. 

 

 

beats me. I wasn't the one who brought it up.

[aGENT]

5 minutes ago, samurai said:

 

Yes, but it is these 4 players that have the management thinking we can build a playoff team around them, and that we owe it to them to do so.  This has resulted in losing Hamhuis for nothing, and signings like Sutter, Dorsett, and now Eriksson.  It also has meant losing McCann for a 'NHL proven' D who is absolutley horrible.   

 

No, management is hoping a new core can emerge that the Sedins would be able to support in the next year or two, not the other way around. It's a small but important distinction IMO.

[CanadianRugby]

31 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Why did we need to fill an age gap?  It's not like there is a league requirement for having sufficient ages throughout the line up. 

 

The only reason the term "age gap" exists is to get more mature players to help speed/smooth the transition over.  But the only way the gap actually gets filled is by having quality players that can either become the new core, or are good enough to provide an impact to help the team remain competitive. 

 

Looking at the team when JB took over, you can see why it made sense to try and speed up that process.  Sedins are 3 years away from retiring. Juice and Hammer were right near the end.  And most 18 year old prospects take at least 3 years to become regular NHLers and another 3-5 to become impactful players.  That leaves a gap between the old core and the new core that had very little pieces to begin building with.  Chances are in that gap canucks would have a hard time being competitive and would likely bottom out. 

 

So we went out and found 20-25 years olds to speed that process up.  We also went out and found some UFA vets to keep this team even more competitive.  

 

The problems is, the majority of those players were high risk (reclamation projects) and most of them didn't last two years, let alone become part of the new core or impact players to keep this team competitive. The fear of bottoming out post sedins is a wash since this team is now a bottom feeder in back to back yes.  And there's a lot of missed opportunity in additional drafting.

 

Drafting, that's the good news, drafting has been rock solid.  The picks that we did make have been promising. Literally every pick JB has made looks to have NHL potential. Had we missed on a few picks like most GM's usually do, things would look a lot worse. 

Agree with everything except for the drafting part.  4 first round picks (including 5th & 6th overall) and none are in the NHL.  Virtanen & McCann have looked just bad this season. 

[Alflives]

2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Why did we need to fill an age gap?  It's not like there is a league requirement for having sufficient ages throughout the line up. 

 

The only reason the term "age gap" exists is to get more mature players to help speed/smooth the transition over.  But the only way the gap actually gets filled is by having quality players that can either become the new core, or are good enough to provide an impact to help the team remain competitive. 

 

Looking at the team when JB took over, you can see why it made sense to try and speed up that process.  Sedins are 3 years away from retiring. Juice and Hammer were right near the end.  And most 18 year old prospects take at least 3 years to become regular NHLers and another 3-5 to become impactful players.  That leaves a gap between the old core and the new core that had very little pieces to begin building with.  Chances are in that gap canucks would have a hard time being competitive and would likely bottom out. 

 

So we went out and found 20-25 years olds to speed that process up.  We also went out and found some UFA vets to keep this team even more competitive.  

 

The problems is, the majority of those players were high risk (reclamation projects) and most of them didn't last two years, let alone become part of the new core or impact players to keep this team competitive. The fear of bottoming out post sedins is a wash since this team is now a bottom feeder in back to back yes.  And there's a lot of missed opportunity in additional drafting.

 

Drafting, that's the good news, drafting has been rock solid.  The picks that we did make have been promising. Literally every pick JB has made looks to have NHL potential. Had we missed on a few picks like most GM's usually do, things would look a lot worse. 

Thank you Forsberg, for posting my thoughts.  I can't convey my ideas like you.  Excellent post!

[NewbieCanuckFan]

2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Drafting, that's the good news, drafting has been rock solid.  The picks that we did make have been promising. Literally every pick JB has made looks to have NHL potential. Had we missed on a few picks like most GM's usually do, things would look a lot worse. 

Again, this is why I'm ticked off at management.  With this kind of expertise (granted it IS still early - remember how good Cody Hodgson looked +1 or +2 years after we drafted him), why the heck hasn't this group attempted to acquire MORE picks instead of almost bleeding picks.

 

Yeah Gillis left Benning with not alot to work with; but you can't blame Gillis for us only having (I *think*) only 5 picks in the upcoming draft.

 

edit:  might be six, but that one is a result of Gillis hiring Torts  (re: compensation from the Blue Jackets for hiring Torts)

[VegasCanuck]

On 12/11/2016 at 7:26 PM, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Funny how the Blue Jackets are doing better under Torts (on he was on pace for a better record than us last season) than Willie is with the Canucks....

Funny how many more, REALLY high draft picks they have had than us in the last 10 years.....

 

They should be doing better than us right now, we are rebuilding, they have a lot of high level prospects that are just coming into their own.

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

54 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Funny how many more, REALLY high draft picks they have had than us in the last 10 years.....

 

They should be doing better than us right now, we are rebuilding, they have a lot of high level prospects that are just coming into their own.

 

Their prospect development (might have changed recently) sucked for the most part - probably a good reason they've been crappy for the most part.  My comment was more in reference to how much a disaster Torts was for us; look how he's doing now with not exactly a veteran laden team to my knowledge (again, I don't follow that team that closely so perhaps I might be wrong in this).  

[messier's_elbow]

7 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Why did we need to fill an age gap?  It's not like there is a league requirement for having sufficient ages throughout the line up. 

 

The only reason the term "age gap" exists is to get more mature players to help speed/smooth the transition over.  But the only way the gap actually gets filled is by having quality players that can either become the new core, or are good enough to provide an impact to help the team remain competitive. 

 

Looking at the team when JB took over, you can see why it made sense to try and speed up that process.  Sedins are 3 years away from retiring. Juice and Hammer were right near the end.  And most 18 year old prospects take at least 3 years to become regular NHLers and another 3-5 to become impactful players.  That leaves a gap between the old core and the new core that had very little pieces to begin building with.  Chances are in that gap canucks would have a hard time being competitive and would likely bottom out. 

 

So we went out and found 20-25 years olds to speed that process up.  We also went out and found some UFA vets to keep this team even more competitive.  

 

The problems is, the majority of those players were high risk (reclamation projects) and most of them didn't last two years, let alone become part of the new core or impact players to keep this team competitive. The fear of bottoming out post sedins is a wash since this team is now a bottom feeder in back to back yes.  And there's a lot of missed opportunity in additional drafting.

 

Drafting, that's the good news, drafting has been rock solid.  The picks that we did make have been promising. Literally every pick JB has made looks to have NHL potential. Had we missed on a few picks like most GM's usually do, things would look a lot worse. 

That's why JB has a GM job. He's great at drafting. It's his saving grace.

[kingofsurrey]

8 hours ago, Alflives said:

He ABSOFRIGGINLUETLY should have traded aging vets for more picks.  The problem is (has been) JB tried to have it both ways: win while rebuilding, and IT IS CLEARLY NOT WORKING. We are neither winn No nor rebuilding.

 

Bang on.  100   % right.  

 

Alf knows his hockey....

 

Benning has  seriously ruined  / delayed our rebuild by getting greedy and trying to ensure a playoff drive at the same time as rebuilding....

 

Benning has put our rebuild back 3 years.    Time for the Canucks to get a more experienced GM that can rebuild our club properly. 

[cyoung]

13 hours ago, D-Money said:

 

We are far, FAR from one of the best in the league. Just look at Utica - barely any potential NHL-ers. Outside of Boeser, Juolevi, and Demko, our "pool" is more of a "puddle".

 

Arizona, Winnipeg, Tampa, Boston, New York (Islanders), Buffalo, Anaheim, and Detroit all have a significantly better/deeper pool than we do.

 

 

 

Hahaha would you take it easy man.  

We have some prospects playing good hockey right now. Garteig,  Lockwood,  gaudette,  brisebois, and Neil all looking like they have bright futures.  Even abols and Zhukenov are turning it up,  getting used to the north American ice.  If we can add 2 1st rounders,  ya I think we will have one of the best in the league.  

 

Obviously I'm being optimistic  but you are really going over the top man. 

[Baggins]

11 hours ago, CeeBee51 said:

But picks won't fill that 20-22 year old puddle. Jeepers!

 

And will be years away from the NHL........

[Baggins]

9 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Again, this is why I'm ticked off at management.  With this kind of expertise (granted it IS still early - remember how good Cody Hodgson looked +1 or +2 years after we drafted him), why the heck hasn't this group attempted to acquire MORE picks instead of almost bleeding picks.

 

Yeah Gillis left Benning with not alot to work with; but you can't blame Gillis for us only having (I *think*) only 5 picks in the upcoming draft.

 

edit:  might be six, but that one is a result of Gillis hiring Torts  (re: compensation from the Blue Jackets for hiring Torts)

 

You do realize that scouting ability isn't purely restricted to junior talent. The complete lack of prospects left by Gillis meant moving some picks for some NHL ready talent. Young talent. Some will be around for years others could become trade pieces down the road after having filled that Gillis gap. Using picks for young players simply speeds up the process rather than using the picks and waiting 3 to 5 years for young players. I don't know why this is so tough to grasp. As far as I'm concerned it was a smart move by Benning to have a few guys already developing in the NHL rather than years away. Those moves don't slow down the rebuild, they speed it up and by the time his draft picks are joining the team they'll be the veteran presence.

 

No matter how you do a rebuild it takes years and patience.

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

3 hours ago, Baggins said:

 

You do realize that scouting ability isn't purely restricted to junior talent. The complete lack of prospects left by Gillis meant moving some picks for some NHL ready talent. Young talent. Some will be around for years others could become trade pieces down the road after having filled that Gillis gap. Using picks for young players simply speeds up the process rather than using the picks and waiting 3 to 5 years for young players. I don't know why this is so tough to grasp. As far as I'm concerned it was a smart move by Benning to have a few guys already developing in the NHL rather than years away. Those moves don't slow down the rebuild, they speed it up and by the time his draft picks are joining the team they'll be the veteran presence.

 

No matter how you do a rebuild it takes years and patience.

 

That only speeds up the rebuild if you are able to find and develop “impact” players, like we were able to do with Naslund and Bertuzzi.  Most of the players we’ve found have done nothing to speed up the rebuild, in fact they slowed down the process.  They reduced our AHL depth and our overall prospect depth (the biggest part of a rebuild).

 

Remove all high risk “waiver/ufa” players, we gave assets for. 

Etem, Granlund, Baertschi, Vey, Larsen, Pedan, Clendening, Prust

 

How can you say that are rebuild is so much farther ahead because any of those players. 

Had we not made those move would our currently on ice product been much worse than a 28th placed team?

Would our future looking that much worse off?

 

We’d still likely have; Jensen, Shinkaruk, Forsling in the system

We’d could have easily re-signed;  Matthias, Santorelli, Richardson

We’d also have; (2x) 2nd round picks, 3rd round pick, (2x) 5th round pick, 6th round pick.

 

So in hindsight we can look at this and say,  we didn’t speed up the rebuild.  The rebuild is actually farther behind than it would have been had we not tried to speed it up with those high risk reclamation projects moves.  Our AHL team would have been more competitive, our overall prospect pool would be larger by atleast another 6 picks. That’s an ENTIRE year of draftng, we only drafted 6 players total last year. 

 

You’re right rebuilds do take years an patience, but it tends to take more time when you throw away the most important part of the rebuild.  Picks.     

[D-Money]

8 hours ago, cyoung said:

Hahaha would you take it easy man.  

We have some prospects playing good hockey right now. Garteig,  Lockwood,  gaudette,  brisebois, and Neil all looking like they have bright futures.  Even abols and Zhukenov are turning it up,  getting used to the north American ice.  If we can add 2 1st rounders,  ya I think we will have one of the best in the league.  

 

Obviously I'm being optimistic  but you are really going over the top man. 

 

I guess you're just blissfully unaware of other team's prospects to think that those guys compare favorably.

 

We could talk about the reality of the situation, but that might be going over the top, man.