Evaluating Willie Desjardins

[TheOgRook]

1 minute ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Shinkaruk for Granlund

Burrows for Dahlen

Hansen for Goldobin + Conditional 4th

2014 3rd rd pick (Keegan Iverson) for Dorsett

Garrison for 2014 2nd rd pick

2015 2nd rd pick for Baertschi

Sadly it will fall on deaf ears.. the guy thinks we traded Grans for picks... buff said

[10pavelbure96]

3 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

 

Baertschi, Granlund for picks - too early to say..... need to see how the picks taken turn out...  Getting older players for prospects always looks good immediately but may really bite us in the backside for years......  We will have to revisit these 2 deals.. We can argue about it for years.... That will be fun. 

Gudbranson for McCann a huge win  - too early so say...  McCann may have a stellar career - Guddy is looking like a  4-5 D man and overpaid.

Hansen and Burrows trades       - too early to say.   We will need 2-3 year at least to see what we have...  could be small skill guys that don't make it.

Sutter and Bonino i would call a tie      -   yah i can agree with that. Sutter is a better player but on a worse contract. 

Phillip Larsen was a loss   -  yes 100 %.  No grit. No thanks. 

Kesler return    -   i think we actually lost on this deal.  Great 2 C that could really help our club right now...

Prust for Kass and a 5th  - that is a loss.  We got damaged goods and Kass may play another 5 years..  That was 100 % a loss.

 

So i see

 

5  Too early to say

1 - tie

3  - Loss

 

So basically so far no clear decisive trade wins from what i see.  

 

 

We were going to lose Burrows for nothing and would get another year out of Hansen before losing him for nothing.  Judging by other similar deals around the league they are clearly wins. 

 

You are blinded by hate. 

[kingofsurrey]

1 minute ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Shinkaruk for Granlund

Burrows for Dahlen

Hansen for Goldobin + Conditional 4th

2014 3rd rd pick (Keegan Iverson) for Dorsett

Garrison for 2014 2nd rd pick

2015 2nd rd pick for Baertschi

Always look more carefully at the crappy Deals JB makes for our club.   Damaging the long term health of our club...

 

JB's trading elite prospects for older scrubs.... in a sad attempt to prop up our weak franchise in the short term....

We need a GM that can stand up to FA and do whats best long term for our team.

 

Of course the older guys look better immediately  ( after trade ) but these deals destroy our club..

 

Lets look at Dorset (  did he win a fight here yet  Dorset.. )

 

Traded for  Keegan Iverson

 

2016-17

Portland Winterhawks

WHL

48

21

38

59

82

22

 

 

Did we win this deal...   maybe ..   But then again maybe not.  The guy is over a pt a game right now and plus 22 for the season.

Was that kind of potential worth Dorset that consistently loses every fight he goes for and is an overpaid 4th liner...

 

[DIBdaQUIB]

Just now, Crabcakes said:

Me too.  FWIW, I think Godobin called for that pass.  We couldn't see his face but there was a stick wave.  He knew he could beat the defender in a foot race.

It was an impressive play for a kid in his first game with the team.  He is a pure goal scorer and it showed. 

 

Most of the good teams make use of that kind of talent.  Patrick Kane has made a career out of blowing the zone early to create scoring chances.  Chicago as a whole has been effective and dangerous because they are coached to look for opportunities and exploit them.  New York (good old AV) makes regular use of the stretch pass coming out of their zone...hard to make a stretch pass if your forwards are not allowed to leave the zone before the puck does.

 

I just see WD as overly conservative and coaching the aggressiveness and offense out of our youth in favour of having a bunch of conservative, responsible automatons.  It could be his insecurity leading to that.  When he first came here, he had them playing an aggressive o-zone system with lots of D pinches etc. but after they got burned on a number of odd man rushes, he backed right off and started to lean on the conservative side.  That may have been understandable with a vet core trying to squeak out another cup run but now, with all the speed and youth, I want to see the shift away from the overly conservative style of play currently being coached and let the kids "breath".

[kingofsurrey]

1 minute ago, 10pavelbure96 said:

We were going to lose Burrows for nothing and would get another year out of Hansen before losing him for nothing.  Judging by other similar deals around the league they are clearly wins. 

 

You are blinded by hate. 

Not blinded by hate.

 

Just honest unlike you.

 

We can't evaluate the deals JB made at this TDL right now.  Wait 2-3 years.  If any of these guys can stick on the team, the deals will look good.

If both guys are AHL lifers then not so much...

 

Just be honest in how we evaluate our GM.

 

 

[Green Building]

8 hours ago, khay said:

I'm not ripping on WD for failing our youth movement but just for fun:

 

Horvat: Doing great.

Baertschi: Doing great.

Hutton: Doing good.

Stecher: Doing pretty good.

Tryamkin: Doing great.

Gaunce: Doing average, maybe below average considering his 1st round status.

Virtanen: S*cks a$$ right now

McCann: Better than Virtanen but not as good as expected.

Vey: Where is this guy now?

Kenins: Disappeared.

Rodin: Injured

 

Granlund doesn't count, as he was already beyond sophomore season when he arrived.

 

Anyhow, I think the players that are doing great are doing great because the players have worked hard not because of WD. The players that aren't doing great are because, they are not great players or have not tried hard enough. Virtanen has the tools but hasn't been able to put it together so far; it's not because WD that he isn't good at the moment. Gaunce lacks speed and offensive instincts; again, not WD's fault. Vey had some skill and good vision and hockey IQ but was below average in skating and physicality... WD tried so hard for Vey and yet, Vey failed him. Kenins was just fluke. Rodin just unlucky.

 

Edit: I give credit to WD for developing Baertschi though. The others, I think they came into their own basically by themselves. 

Honestly I was going to type out a reply, but @alfstonker 's direct response is more or less what I would have written. Of course the player gets the credit for busting his ass and making it in the NHL, but the coach has definitely taught him something along the way that helps him adjust to a league vastly different from anywhere he played previously. It's just as unfair to give WD no credit for player development than it is overly fair to give him all of it. The team helps to push as well. Example: Sedin telling Horvat not to worry about being in a slump wouldn't have had the same effect if it came from WD. 

 

2 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Yes indeed!  The last game, people should wear bags on their heads and chant "FREE WILLIE" !   (BTW, is safe to assume that when WILLIE is FIRED on April 8th at 9:32 p.m. that Willie's boy - Larsen automatically goes too?)    If so, that would be a double bonus!

Plastic please.

 

35 minutes ago, Tre Mac said:

I used to defend Willie but I think his time has come to an end.  I wouldn't say he's failing the youth movement but I also wouldn't say he's worthy of any credit either.  Horvat looks like a special player that can develop regardless of who is coaching.  Virtanen and McCann didn't develop but who knows who was calling the lineup last year.  Fact is they were on the roster and even when this team was out they still weren't being utilized effectively. So if your going to tout Willie for Horvat's progression than you must fault him for Virtanen's regression.

 

It's not all about the youth on this team too, look at some of the vets that are struggling.  Look how often the Sedins get trotted out with Larsen, how often Megma gets used, how Eriksson is an anchor to any line he gets thrown on. 

 

I am just going to throw this out:  Could this be attributed to coaching or the veteran leadership provided by the Sedins and Burrows(while he was here).  Because I believe it has more to do with the latter.

 

And are we forgetting how everyone was fuming about Willie's deployment in the playoffs?  That team should've beat Calgary but got tremendously outcoached and it's been downhill ever sense.  So what if he keeps us close in losses, that meaningless 3 game win streak in Cali last year cost us huge in the lottery. 

 

I cannot fault him for being defensive and giving the illusion that he is coaching the offensive life out of this team, that's a problem through out the league and it's been like that for awhile unfortunately, it's an over coached league.  I do believe his time has come to an end and now this team needs a more up tempo system.

I'm not crazy about WD. My stance on him is that he's a placeholder while we develop as a young team transitioning its current core toward a new one. I have no problem faulting him for things I think he's done wrong. Not every player is going to be a Horvat, I think we can agree on that, but to say that Tryamkin, Granlund, Baer, and Hutton have all shown improvements in their game and it has nothing to do with the coach is silly. I don't know if he'll be back next year or not, but if he isn't I won't be fuming.

 

Virtanen coasted through games like he had made it already in his rookie year. He is where he is right now because of his personal approach to the game. I know that coaches are supposed to be part psychologist, but they don't need to be part babysitter. Virtanen is down in the AHL learning the effort it takes to be a pro because he certainly didn't have that up here. All accounts have him getting that part together, so that's good.  

 

McCann I never liked seeing on the 4th line, but then again I wasn't a huge fan of either he or Virt remaining up here past the 9 game mark because they were so raw looking.

 

25 minutes ago, Sweathog said:

Willie has done a decent job in my opinion.  While I don't agree with every decision he's made, I think his decisions and time spent with the team will have excellent long-term benefits. 

 

Imo the priority with this team is to develop our youngsters (especially our top prospects) in a structured, patient environment. Teach them good habits, work on fitness, and gradually give them more responsibility and ice time until they're ready to take over this team. Ideally when most of our new core hits their prime. The reason players like Vey and Megna were/are given more ice time wasn't because they were Willie's favourites, but instead to protect our more valuable youngsters from being given too much too soon. Besides, let guys like Megna and Chaput be given oodles of ice time at this point. They'll just help guide us to a top 3 pick, which is what we need the most right now.

 

Willie gets 8/10. He's following management's directives to the letter.

I can't say whether he's following them to the letter or not, but I do agree with everything else you've said.

[Rocksterh8]

7 hours ago, Setyoureyesontheprize said:

what a broad statement you just made. 

 

You think willie is the one responsible for Horvats, Baer, Granlunds progression but actually it's the player that has made the difference through preseverence AND playing through the coaches biased view and usage of veterans over younger players EVEN when the numbers show that the vets are making just as many mistakes but they are not held accountable to the same degree.

 

The fact that there is such a big gap in accountability between the veterans who repeatedly make the same mistakes and the young players who need play, and  make mistakes to learn and develop is enough for us to see him detrimental to our youth and as  a  major cause of stagnation in their long term development.

this fact alone is enough to get his ass fired but somehow he's still employed and causing huge damage to our prospects by shattering their confidence  at a very delicate but enormously critical junction of their development.

 

 

 

 

 

Great post here, and you're right on the money.  Thank you for seeing what most fan's see.

[48MPHSlapShot]

18 minutes ago, TheOgRook said:

Sadly it will fall on deaf ears.. the guy thinks we traded Grans for picks... buff said

Oh, I'm sure.

 

Just waiting for the "We don't know if we won the Burrows/Hansen/Baertschi trades yet" nonsense.

 

It's such a cop-out thing to say. We could have moved Burrows to Colorado for their 1st and 2nd rd picks and you could say the exact same thing.

 

Fact is that, with Burrows and Hansen, we got way more value than what people here were thinking we would get. At this point, Dahlen is pretty much equivalent to a late 1st, which is WAY more than anybody was expecting to get for Burrows, and Hansen essentially netted us another late 1st with 2 years of development under his belt + a 4th that has a slim chance to become yet another 1st. Again, well above what most people were expecting.

 

As for the Baertschi deal, if any 2nd rd player can turn into the player that Bear Cheese is, that's a massive win. Keep in mind that I believe Calgary used the pick we sent them to land Dougie Hamilton, along with their 1st and their other 2nd, so there isn't really a way to compare Baertschi to what they got for the 2nd.

[48MPHSlapShot]

10 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

JB's trading elite prospects for older scrubs

What elite prospects are you referring to?

[Rocksterh8]

1 hour ago, TheOgRook said:

Lols you've hated the guy since day one. I think we'd rather have him as a coach than you as a fan #firekos

 

so what exactly quailifies you to be the judge of who's the worst coach??  Sounds like a lot of complaining without any experience to make a proper judgment 

Speak for yourself! You're opinion has nothing do with "we" 

[darkpoet]

9 hours ago, Green Building said:

I'd like everybody who rips on WD for failing our youth movement to name all of our prospects/rookies/sophomores that he has coached, and explain how they're progressing thus far. I don't expect many answers.

They haven't succeeded because of him. They've succeeded despite him.

 

[Ghostsof1915]

Can we get back to the point at hand and discuss WD? That would be great thanks. 

[10pavelbure96]

17 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Always look more carefully at the crappy Deals JB makes for our club.   Damaging the long term health of our club...

 

JB's trading elite prospects for older scrubs.... in a sad attempt to prop up our weak franchise in the short term....

We need a GM that can stand up to FA and do whats best long term for our team.

 

Of course the older guys look better immediately  ( after trade ) but these deals destroy our club..

 

Lets look at Dorset (  did he win a fight here yet  Dorset.. )

 

Traded for  Keegan Iverson

 

2016-17

Portland Winterhawks

WHL

48

21

38

59

82

22

 

 

Did we win this deal...   maybe ..   But then again maybe not.  The guy is over a pt a game right now and plus 22 for the season.

Was that kind of potential worth Dorset that consistently loses every fight he goes for and is an overpaid 4th liner...

 

What elite prospects has JB traded away??? Do u know what the word elite means ?

Name one please. Name one ELITE prospect that JB traded away..

[canuck73_3]

1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said:

And then brought in more garbage constracts like Loui E and Sutter....  

 

#FireBenning, #FireLinden , #FireWillie    - time to bring in an managment team that has actual NHL management experience.

Seriously, stfu you're clueless.

 

[darkpoet]

1 minute ago, 10pavelbure96 said:

Name one ELITE prospect that JB traded away..

Jared McCann't 

[Rocksterh8]

59 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

I don't think people understand how Willie works.

 

First, he makes young players earn their ice time.  That's exactly what you've described Horvat, Baertschi, Granlund, Hutton, Tryamkin doing.

 

Once you prove that you can play Willie gives players all the rope in the world to work things out.  Everybody slumps from time to time.  They sort it out and move forward.

 

The fact that there is a list of young players who have climbed up the pecking order proves that Willie is not completely unfair.  It's a pretty damn hard ladder to climb though.  If a player does climb it, he knows that he has achieved something.

 

In Willies world, it's hard to slide down the ladder.  However, players do slide.  Did anyone notice Larsen last night?  No, he was hanging out by the popcorn machine.  A couple of weeks ago, people were going, why is Larsen in when Biega has been just fine.  Well, I think Biega is now ahead of Larsen since player reviews.

So how about making old 6 million dollar players earn their ice time, instead of standing around with the thumb up their a-s-s !

[appleboy]

2 minutes ago, 10pavelbure96 said:

What elite prospects has JB traded away??? Do u know what the word elite means ?

Name one please. Name one ELITE prospect that JB traded away..

They seem to think that Shink was elite. LOL followed by a deep belly laugh that turns into hysteria.

[SilentSam]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Is Willie D the right coach for the rebuild?

No.  Absolutely not.

2 simple examples of Desjardins being out of touch with development in the past 2 games.

 

1:  Boucher was just getting his rythym, showing well.  Benched

2: Goldobrin's game last night,. 5:51 mins of ice time. Benched after what turned out to be his game winning goal in the second period.

 

I hope that Desjardins is getting his ears shalacked in Bennings office this morning.

[Rocksterh8]

40 minutes ago, TheOgRook said:

Don't forget why those two were brought in.  I'm all for the old school way of doing things.  Sheltering our kids with vets.  Bringing a guy like Erik in is a no brainer IMO.  He will provide some stability in the room and is young enough to grow with a new core.  As far as LE goes.. I won't judge this contract till year 2 is over.  He has had notoriously bad starts on new teams and sadly our team is pretty weak ATM.  All these moves that have some confused are moves made to provide "some" stability through the rebuild.  Cause you never wanna go full Edmonton.  Look at how many prospects they have ruined through the years.

Now why wouldn't you judge his contract this year? He's still getting his 6 Million... what a dumb comment

[Kurt Nirvanagut]

He's a boring, gutless coach who doesn't recognize player chemistry and coaches the team as if he's still in the AHL. But most offensively, he's so boring.