The Rebuild Kicked Off With Acquiring Bo, & Was Completed at 2019 Draft!

[spook007]

44 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I heard (I think?) Ray Ferraro say something recently about the European players he played with not having as much an issue with moving from team to team as the NA players.  I wonder if that feeling has evolved to include the guys from all over now?  Sure, the top guys are committed to winning Cups on their current teams, but how many guys is that across the whole league?  It's an attitude that is certainly there now, but (IMHAO) didn't used to be so prevalent. 

Tell that to Edler and tye Sedins

[spook007]

9 minutes ago, cdgraham said:

The thing is imagine if Pittsburgh or Chicago miss the playoffs this year and the league did this, they would likely win and then get the first overall pick? How is that fair? this system rewards the best team that didn't make the playoffs essentially with the first overall pick well leaving the worst team with probably the lowest pick of all non playoff teams... This doesn't make sense 

I hate that teams keeps getting premium picks, but from a financial viewpoint I don’t see any advantages in tanking. Firstly it takes several years of really sucking with the lack of revenue and then you still gotta be lucky enough for your picks to develop into total fame changers. Very few are in that category. Look at the Oilers, Pathers, yotes etc. They are still going nowhere. Even with the best player on their team in McD they suck. 

A few more seasons like that and he’ll start fishing for a trade. All players wanna win. 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

4 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Tell that to Edler and tye Sedins

Yeah, things have changed quite a bit since Ray’s day. European players are much more comfortable now. Less of a culture and language barrier. And many of them come over much earlier.

 

Also, for Europeans, their NHL city can really become an adopted home away from home, where they move their families over, and often even stick around during the offseason. It seems like quite a few North American players these days maintain primary residences outside of their NHL city, and maybe keep a “work” apartment/condo near the rink, and head out of town to go “home” to their families when they’re not playing.

 

To me, there’s very little difference these days between Euros and NA players in terms of team loyalty and their willingness to be be a mercenary type vs desire to stay in one place. And at least from the Canucks perspective, our most loyal players with the most significant involvement in our local community really seem to be the Europeans.

[Rush17]

22 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

5 yrs are 20% each. Every 4 game span is about 1%

 

We're gettin' there.

i am not so certain this will be our last year of suffering.  i think we may have 1 more season of pain unless pettersson, gaduette, and juolevi have major impact rookie seasons.

 

if we land dahlin or hughes or boqvist maybe we'd be ok.  i like those 3 and tkchauk. i am less interested in the russian and zadina.  watch us get zadina now and he be a future franchise leader in points lol 

[Alflives]

48 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Tell that to Edler and tye Sedins

True

[Rush17]

#StankNation = Stealth tank

 

:D  stupid i know lol.  bored.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Rush17

[Boudrias]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

I heard (I think?) Ray Ferraro say something recently about the European players he played with not having as much an issue with moving from team to team as the NA players.  I wonder if that feeling has evolved to include the guys from all over now?  Sure, the top guys are committed to winning Cups on their current teams, but how many guys is that across the whole league?  It's an attitude that is certainly there now, but (IMHAO) didn't used to be so prevalent. 

I think the league is so competitive that many players have to accept that they will not play their careers on one team. Getting a spot on another team is as good as it might get. Scotty Upshall did a tryout here last fall and admitted in an interview that his tryout was, in essence, for the entire league. He was hoping to get back to St. Louis and it worked out for him. He was quick to thank Jim Benning for the opportunity and spoke well of the Canuck org. A NHL career seems to be getting shorter all the time. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

5 hours ago, Davathor said:

I hate the term 'stealth rebuild'... finishing bottom 5 isn't stealth, and everyone knows and has been calling the Canucks a rebuilding team for the last few years. Really silly term you only see on CDC.

Scientific experts through laborious, peer reviewed, extensive research (& associated experiments) have concluded you may lengthen your lifespan by 3.4 yrs with a 17% increase in silliness.

 

As the Aussies are apt to say: Give it a go, ya mug!

[ForsbergTheGreat]

3 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Pretty nihilistic there Forsy, I think that 2 five minute OT's aren't as difficult as you think.

Nope just reality. Once a season is over players are on the first flight out of the city. Most vets throw in the towel a month before the season is over. The only players trying are the fringe ones that are trying to have a good impression to make the team the next year. You think a player that has been playing through an injury is going to want to give his all for something he has no control over. The players don’t even know who the team is scouting or if they will keep/trade the pick. Players don’t get paid for extra games so there is zero incentive for them to care. 

 

If your boss asked you to stay and work overtime without pay for the good of the company you’d tell him to jump in the lake. It would be less competitive than the all star game. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

2 hours ago, Rush17 said:

i am not so certain this will be our last year of suffering.  i think we may have 1 more season of pain unless pettersson, gaduette, and juolevi have major impact rookie seasons.

 

if we land dahlin or hughes or boqvist maybe we'd be ok.  i like those 3 and tkchauk. i am less interested in the russian and zadina.  watch us get zadina now and he be a future franchise leader in points lol 

Was considering this pov(in the context of time..eg:backwards, fwds) when I first posted this thread, R17.

 

Let's say the HockeyGawds(Clouds opened, shining lights..John Ashbridge voice from the Heavens, etc...) told us all(June 2013) that we had a half-decade of bottom-5 wallowing(essentially) in the tea leaves, starting now. CDC would have exploded, & there'd be bridge-hoppers galore. It's like telling a youth to wait 5 yrs to get their driver's licence, or some Gawd-awful thing to endure. Looking ahead, time can be a heavy burden, particularly in uncertain times.

 

Whether it's 66%(as you suggest) or the 80% I stated in Oct, we've got the bulk of the grind, ground, as it were. F*** the shining light at the end of the tunnel..suggest we see this sh*tty tunnel as being in the rear-view mirror. Call it a mind-strategy to deal with tough slogs.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Nuxfanabroad

[Canuck Surfer]

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 4:22 AM, aGENT said:

Without at least 2 moves on that left side (Edler, MDZ or Hutton), there simply isn't room for him. Only other option is that we move Gudbranson (if we can't/he doesn't want to re-sign).

May I jump in?  Civilly?  I was enjoying the convo you & @IBatch were having.

 

I was just reading from last week, and agree, probably, with the premise OJ will start in Utica next year.  But I would not limit him to not making the team. I don't think you are, are you? He has the best toolkit of all our D from a scouting standpoint.  Skills, track record (memorial cup, WJC champ, 3 time participant & once team WJC captain), size, speed, agility, awareness all point to him ultimately being our best defender. One day, anyway.

 

It would not surprise me at all to see him jump two or three of our LHD next camp.  At which point, all have enough street cred they could be traded without us having to expose any to waivers. And one may, in fact, be traded before then. It was & has been rumoured that Hutton & MDZ have been OTB. It could also be like Stecher; where he started in Utica but played 70 odd NHL games his rookie year.  That's essentially making the team, just managing assets.

 

I personally, not that I will be right, project Petterson & Gaudette to make the team out of the gate.  A transition of Vanek (deadline) & Dowd. Dowd who may make the team again if there are injuries. But probably at least two on the IR. As if we don't sign a Evander Kane (I agree & would), we will at least have more PTO's looking to be a physical presence, desperately needed in our lineup. PTO's or Kane inclusive of one spot, there will still be room for EP & AG as most certainly there will be at least one injury. There always is! The most fun will be seeing who plays centre among Gaudette & Petterson out of the gate? Or if a Goldobin or Boucher can win that spot instead; I don't anticipate so. But it would be great if they did & our more prominent prospects can start for the Comets.I also believe Dahlen will play a healthy % of the year. And this presumes, again what I believe, that the Twins sign 1 year pacts each.  

 

Yup D is the wildcard. ATM we have depth, but not top end skill.  Look? Pouliot was once very blue chip, even brings some elements never seen from Juolevi.  But his development is far enough behind I would be surprised if he still elevated to a top D.  ATM he is sitting games for Hutton. Gudbranson, hell do we even sre-sign Bulldog (?) and the prospect of both outgoing (MDZ, Hutton) or an incoming trades for a talented D are part of the wildcard picture. I am projecting we keep Gudbranson & Bulldog.  If everyone is healthy, Juolevi starts in Utica.  AND I ADVOCATE HEAVILY THE DRAFTING OF A D AGAIN EARLY THIS YEAR.

 

My real opinion on the D is to hang on to Hutton, MDZ > hold our cards till closer to the deadline 2019? That's what I would do. Then move Edler. His contract will be expiring.

 

On D guys like Hutton & Stecher can be our long term depth as we integrate Juolevi & someone among Boquist, Dahlin, Bouchard, Wilde or Dobson. If its the last 3 we draft, we also look at trades for top end PMD talent but invest in our defensive pipeline anyway!   

[Davathor]

2 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Scientific experts through laborious, peer reviewed, extensive research (& associated experiments) have concluded you may lengthen your lifespan by 3.4 yrs with a 17% increase in silliness.

 

As the Aussies are apt to say: Give it a go, ya mug!

 

That's a steep price to pay for maybe 3.4 years

[Nuxfanabroad]

13 minutes ago, Davathor said:

 

That's a steep price to pay for maybe 3.4 years

Eegads, you've got me there! :^(

[aGENT]

4 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

May I jump in?  Civilly?  I was enjoying the convo you & @IBatch were having.

 

I was just reading from last week, and agree, probably, with the premise OJ will start in Utica next year.  But I would not limit him to not making the team. I don't think you are, are you? He has the best toolkit of all our D from a scouting standpoint.  Skills, track record (memorial cup, WJC champ, 3 time participant & once team WJC captain), size, speed, agility, awareness all point to him ultimately being our best defender. One day, anyway.

 

It would not surprise me at all to see him jump two or three of our LHD next camp.  At which point, all have enough street cred they could be traded without us having to expose any to waivers. And one may, in fact, be traded before then. It was & has been rumoured that Hutton & MDZ have been OTB. It could also be like Stecher; where he started in Utica but played 70 odd NHL games his rookie year.  That's essentially making the team, just managing assets.

 

I personally, not that I will be right, project Petterson & Gaudette to make the team out of the gate.  A transition of Vanek (deadline) & Dowd. Dowd who may make the team again if there are injuries. But probably at least two on the IR. As if we don't sign a Evander Kane (I agree & would), we will at least have more PTO's looking to be a physical presence, desperately needed in our lineup. PTO's or Kane inclusive of one spot, there will still be room for EP & AG as most certainly there will be at least one injury. There always is! The most fun will be seeing who plays centre among Gaudette & Petterson out of the gate? Or if a Goldobin or Boucher can win that spot instead; I don't anticipate so. But it would be great if they did & our more prominent prospects can start for the Comets.I also believe Dahlen will play a healthy % of the year. And this presumes, again what I believe, that the Twins sign 1 year pacts each.  

 

Yup D is the wildcard. ATM we have depth, but not top end skill.  Look? Pouliot was once very blue chip, even brings some elements never seen from Juolevi.  But his development is far enough behind I would be surprised if he still elevated to a top D.  ATM he is sitting games for Hutton. Gudbranson, hell do we even sre-sign Bulldog (?) and the prospect of both outgoing (MDZ, Hutton) or an incoming trades for a talented D are part of the wildcard picture. I am projecting we keep Gudbranson & Bulldog.  If everyone is healthy, Juolevi starts in Utica.  AND I ADVOCATE HEAVILY THE DRAFTING OF A D AGAIN EARLY THIS YEAR.

 

My real opinion on the D is to hang on to Hutton, MDZ > hold our cards till closer to the deadline 2019? That's what I would do. Then move Edler. His contract will be expiring.

 

On D guys like Hutton & Stecher can be our long term depth as we integrate Juolevi & someone among Boquist, Dahlin, Bouchard, Wilde or Dobson. If its the last 3 we draft, we also look at trades for top end PMD talent but invest in our defensive pipeline anyway!   

I'm the last person putting any limits on OJ. I happen to be quite high on him actually (despite cdc constantly reminding me he's not in the nhl yet and not Tkachuck)

 

Sure, he could end up 'Stecher'ed'. In that case though, we'll still have to make those 2 moves I outlined between now and whenever we want to make room for him. 

 

Agreed on Pettersson and Gaudette. 

 

I'd at least consider bringing Biega back as 8D. Nobody better suits that role. 

 

Agreed on drafting a D all else being equal as well. 

[Baggins]

13 hours ago, cdgraham said:

The thing is imagine if Pittsburgh or Chicago miss the playoffs this year and the league did this, they would likely win and then get the first overall pick? How is that fair? this system rewards the best team that didn't make the playoffs essentially with the first overall pick well leaving the worst team with probably the lowest pick of all non playoff teams... This doesn't make sense 

That's not possible. The worst the last place team can do is picking 4th.

[Baggins]

14 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

The draft picks will be out in the open with no more criticism of league tampering.

If there was tampering Matthews would be playing in Arizona not Toronto. That would have been a league PR wet dream. Local kid drafted first overall by the team that got him playing hockey. They certainly wouldn't rig it for teams like TO and Edmonton (whatever happened to Bettman hates Canada? lol). Two teams that have attendance and solid revenue despite a decade of sucking. No, they'd be rigging it for the financially struggling US teams like Arizona, Florida, or Carolina to prop them up and attract fans and TV revenue.

 

Also if tampering was ever caught the accounting firm that conducts the draft lottery would lose all credibility and cost them a lot of money from the publicity hit they'd take. Who'd trust them after that? Sorry but I don't buy into the conspiracy crap because it makes no sense.

[Nuxfanabroad]

43 minutes ago, Baggins said:

If there was tampering Matthews would be playing in Arizona not Toronto. That would have been a league PR wet dream. Local kid drafted first overall by the team that got him playing hockey. They certainly wouldn't rig it for teams like TO and Edmonton (whatever happened to Bettman hates Canada? lol). Two teams that have attendance and solid revenue despite a decade of sucking. No, they'd be rigging it for the financially struggling US teams like Arizona, Florida, or Carolina to prop them up and attract fans and TV revenue.

 

Also if tampering was ever caught the accounting firm that conducts the draft lottery would lose all credibility and cost them a lot of money from the publicity hit they'd take. Who'd trust them after that? Sorry but I don't buy into the conspiracy crap because it makes no sense.

Sorry, but if you think this multi-billion $ industry is honest, you're probably hopefully-naive.

[Baggins]

1 hour ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Sorry, but if you think this multi-billion $ industry is honest, you're probably hopefully-naive.

I never said anything about the overall honesty of the league. I said the draft lottery results make no sense if it was to be rigged in favor of a league agenda and that a highly reputable accounting firm wouldn't put their reputation on the line for a once a year draft lottery. To small a job to put their rep at risk. But no, I'm not a tin foil hat kind of guy overall anyway.

[Boudrias]

15 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

May I jump in?  Civilly?  I was enjoying the convo you & @IBatch were having.

 

I was just reading from last week, and agree, probably, with the premise OJ will start in Utica next year.  But I would not limit him to not making the team. I don't think you are, are you? He has the best toolkit of all our D from a scouting standpoint.  Skills, track record (memorial cup, WJC champ, 3 time participant & once team WJC captain), size, speed, agility, awareness all point to him ultimately being our best defender. One day, anyway.

 

It would not surprise me at all to see him jump two or three of our LHD next camp.  At which point, all have enough street cred they could be traded without us having to expose any to waivers. And one may, in fact, be traded before then. It was & has been rumoured that Hutton & MDZ have been OTB. It could also be like Stecher; where he started in Utica but played 70 odd NHL games his rookie year.  That's essentially making the team, just managing assets.

 

I personally, not that I will be right, project Petterson & Gaudette to make the team out of the gate.  A transition of Vanek (deadline) & Dowd. Dowd who may make the team again if there are injuries. But probably at least two on the IR. As if we don't sign a Evander Kane (I agree & would), we will at least have more PTO's looking to be a physical presence, desperately needed in our lineup. PTO's or Kane inclusive of one spot, there will still be room for EP & AG as most certainly there will be at least one injury. There always is! The most fun will be seeing who plays centre among Gaudette & Petterson out of the gate? Or if a Goldobin or Boucher can win that spot instead; I don't anticipate so. But it would be great if they did & our more prominent prospects can start for the Comets.I also believe Dahlen will play a healthy % of the year. And this presumes, again what I believe, that the Twins sign 1 year pacts each.  

 

Yup D is the wildcard. ATM we have depth, but not top end skill.  Look? Pouliot was once very blue chip, even brings some elements never seen from Juolevi.  But his development is far enough behind I would be surprised if he still elevated to a top D.  ATM he is sitting games for Hutton. Gudbranson, hell do we even sre-sign Bulldog (?) and the prospect of both outgoing (MDZ, Hutton) or an incoming trades for a talented D are part of the wildcard picture. I am projecting we keep Gudbranson & Bulldog.  If everyone is healthy, Juolevi starts in Utica.  AND I ADVOCATE HEAVILY THE DRAFTING OF A D AGAIN EARLY THIS YEAR.

 

My real opinion on the D is to hang on to Hutton, MDZ > hold our cards till closer to the deadline 2019? That's what I would do. Then move Edler. His contract will be expiring.

 

On D guys like Hutton & Stecher can be our long term depth as we integrate Juolevi & someone among Boquist, Dahlin, Bouchard, Wilde or Dobson. If its the last 3 we draft, we also look at trades for top end PMD talent but invest in our defensive pipeline anyway!   

Nice job. I don't agree with signing Kane, mainly because of the risk. If it turns out that concern about his character is true then the Canucks will be the 3rd org trying to recover some value by trading him again. I doubt that would be possibly without a massive write down on value. Combine that with a contract that will likely have massive value and significant duration. In other words not movable. We already have one of those in Ericksson.    

[aGENT]

4 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Nice job. I don't agree with signing Kane, mainly because of the risk. If it turns out that concern about his character is true then the Canucks will be the 3rd org trying to recover some value by trading him again. I doubt that would be possibly without a massive write down on value. Combine that with a contract that will likely have massive value and significant duration. In other words not movable. We already have one of those in Ericksson.    

That's only a concern if we trade anything for him. Signing him as a UFA for zero assets, the only thing it costs, is Francesco's $.

 

In that scenario, even getting a 2nd round pick for him (which would be an unlikely/low return) is more assets than we would have had had we not signed him.

 

Given his history/rep, trends in the league etc I doubt he gets a long term or big $$ deal from anyone personally.