(Rumour) Maple Leafs Have Interest In Erik Gudbranson

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Agreed.

 

Personally I think he signs somewhere between $4-$4.5. Something like $4.33 X 6 years I'd have no problem with.

Yeah thats my feelings too. I think 4.33 would be closer to the max id life (ideally under 4) and preferably less term (like max 4 years). Unless we think he’s going to really progress a bunch it doesn’t make sense to lock ourselves in long term. If in 4 years we want to resign him nothing would be stopping us.  Anything over 4.5 and too much term is something we have to consider seeing what the trade market looks like. If a teams willing to over pay to acquire we have to listen. 

[PhillipBlunt]

19 hours ago, guntrix said:

Okay, you're going to have to explain why draft hype is so important to a player seven years removed from his draft year. If this isn't reaching, idk what is.

So you still won't answer the question I initially asked. I am shocked. 

19 hours ago, guntrix said:

 

See previous answer.

What answer? You answered nothing. 

19 hours ago, guntrix said:

 

A talking point isn't a valid point. Only in a CDC utopia are draft hype and rumours fair game when making points. 

Instead of actual discussion, you're pushing your tired narrative against a portion of the CDC that disagrees with you. 

 

Hey, I have a great idea. Why don't you start up your own blog, where you can talk stats and passive aggressively bash players whose analytics you don't like?

19 hours ago, guntrix said:

So give Gud 4.5 because he has size? I think I chose the wrong profession.

Simplify, cherry pick, rinse, repeat. 

19 hours ago, guntrix said:

mmm idk. Maybe Gallant will sign for a league minimum. Wouldn't take much to get Boll from the Ducks. Or maybe McLeod from Nash. If what you want i physicality and enforcing, those guys can do that too.

Gallant? He's a tad old to play, don't you think? And his gig with Vegas would probably take precedence. The others are definitely solid players for that role, but Boll is a little long in the tooth. 

19 hours ago, guntrix said:

*Cringe* and you complain about dad humour.

If you can't appreciate the genius that Phil Hartman was, I can't help you. 

19 hours ago, guntrix said:

If you tried reaching more you'd break your arm.

Breaking out the metaphors. I am impressed. 

19 hours ago, guntrix said:

You call it loathing, I call it realism. People need to get over the fact that we're not the 2011 Canucks anymore. Superior teams don't need to massively prepare for a rebuilding bubble team. As much as it hurts one's pride, it is what it is. 

You are an extremely derisive and negative poster. Your reality is based on stats that aren't as airtight as you'd like to them to be. 

 

No one still thinks that the 2011 Canucks still exist. That was 6 years ago, pal. 

 

So a superior team like the Predators didn't need to prepare for Vancouver yesterday? Speaking of one's pride being hurt, it's okay guntrix. 

19 hours ago, guntrix said:

And you're misinterpreting my dialogue towards Gud. I've said before that I"m more than willing to sign him for a contract reflective of what he actually brings as an enforcer. You sign him for 4.5 and it becomes another Kris Russell contract. 

Not really. I'm seeing it for what it is. 

 

Comparing Russell to Gudbranson. Sweet. Russell is such a beast during the playoffs. Maybe he can get another own goal like he did yesterday?

[higgyfan]

12 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Yeah thats my feelings too. I think 4.33 would be closer to the max id life (ideally under 4) and preferably less term (like max 4 years). Unless we think he’s going to really progress a bunch it doesn’t make sense to lock ourselves in long term. If in 4 years we want to resign him nothing would be stopping us.  Anything over 4.5 and too much term is something we have to consider seeing what the trade market looks like. If a teams willing to over pay to acquire we have to listen. 

This seems about right.  With Edler coming off the books next season sometime (I think he'll be gone by trade deadline), they can offer Guddy the extra little bit to keep him here.  I don't know if there will be other teams wanting him for more, but the 4.33m seems fair enough.

He many not have any offensive acumen, but he is a positive factor on the team.  Would hate to lose him.

 

JB has to know well before trade deadline if Guddy wants to stay in Vancouver.  My guess is that he does.

[aGENT]

19 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Yeah thats my feelings too. I think 4.33 would be closer to the max id life (ideally under 4) and preferably less term (like max 4 years). Unless we think he’s going to really progress a bunch it doesn’t make sense to lock ourselves in long term. If in 4 years we want to resign him nothing would be stopping us.  Anything over 4.5 and too much term is something we have to consider seeing what the trade market looks like. If a teams willing to over pay to acquire we have to listen. 

I doubt he agrees to 4 years. If that's the max term we offer him, he probably leans to going FA and seeing what's out there (unless we up the $$$, which people would also freak about). And if he's leaning FA, Benning has to look to see what we can get in trade. So 4 years is probably a pipe dream. But if they get it, more power to JB.

 

We're not going to be able to drastically low ball him on cap or term IMO. I said 6 years as it's a happy medium between the 8 he'd likely want and the 4 we would. It also finishes off at a very reasonable age for a D man.

 

And I do think he will continue to progress personally. Nothing drastic but I don't think we've seen the best out of EG yet.

[PhillipBlunt]

9 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I doubt he agrees to 4 years. If that's the max term we offer him, he probably leans to going FA and seeing what's out there (unless we up the $$$, which people would also freak about). And if he's leaning FA, Benning has to look to see what we can get in trade. So 4 years is probably a pipe dream. But if they get it, more power to JB.

 

We're not going to be able to drastically low ball him on cap or term IMO. I said 6 years as it's a happy medium between the 8 he'd likely want and the 4 we would. It also finishes off at a very reasonable age for a D man.

 

And I do think he will continue to progress personally. Nothing drastic but I don't think we've seen the best out of EG yet.

From the blogs on Bleacher Report that I've read, aGENT, he's peaked already and is nothing more than an enforcer and a horrible defenseman. 

[aGENT]

7 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

From the blogs on Bleacher Report that I've read, aGENT, he's peaked already and is nothing more than an enforcer and a horrible defenseman. 

[SilentSam]

16 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

From the blogs on Bleacher Report that I've read, aGENT, he's peaked already and is nothing more than an enforcer and a horrible defenseman. 

It’s a crazy world PB, even the frog pond is infested these days  

[oldnews]

29 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

From the blogs on Bleacher Report that I've read, aGENT, he's peaked already and is nothing more than an enforcer and a horrible defenseman. 

I love that stuff.

 

Right up there with the story that Sutter is/was an overpaid 4th line center.

 

Or that Luca Sbisa is/was one of, it not the worst defenseman in the NHL.

And how apeshizz they went over his contract.

 

And likewise with the whinging over the Derek Dorsett deal and contract.

 

The analyticzz community sure has taken that simpleton GMJB down.

(as his 'lottery' team leads the league in road wins at the same time as being 4th overall in a metric called "Lost-ps" or points in the standings lost to man-games lost to injury - Anaheim, Vegas and Boston having had what are judged more significant injuries).

On-ice product vastly improved.

Prospect pool teaming with young talent at every position.

 

Have really enjoyed watching GMJB go about his job with humility as a bunch of arrogant trolls circled with their impotent feeding-frenzy at his expense.

 

 

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

6 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I love that stuff.

 

Right up there with the story that Sutter is/was an overpaid 4th line center.

 

Or that Luca Sbisa is/was one of, it not the worst defenseman in the NHL.

And how apeshizz they went over his contract.

 

And likewise with the whinging over the Derek Dorsett deal and contract.

 

The analyticzz community sure has taken that simpleton GMJB down.

(as his 'lottery' team leads the league in road wins at the same time as being 4th overall in a metric called "Lost-ps" or points in the standings lost to man-games lost to injury - Anaheim, Vegas and Boston having had what are judged more significant injuries).

On-ice product vastly improved.

Prospect pool teaming with young talent at every position.

 

Have really enjoyed watching GMJB go about his job with humility as a bunch of arrogant trolls circled with their impotent feeding-frenzy at his expense.

 

 

 

 

Boom! Slap!

[ForsbergTheGreat]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

I doubt he agrees to 4 years. If that's the max term we offer him, he probably leans to going FA and seeing what's out there (unless we up the $$$, which people would also freak about). And if he's leaning FA, Benning has to look to see what we can get in trade. So 4 years is probably a pipe dream. But if they get it, more power to JB.

 

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

We're not going to be able to drastically low ball him on cap or term IMO. I said 6 years as it's a happy medium between the 8 he'd likely want and the 4 we would. It also finishes off at a very reasonable age for a D man.

 

And I do think he will continue to progress personally. Nothing drastic but I don't think we've seen the best out of EG yet.

Were not going to be able to low ball him but that doesn’t mean we are going to over pay him we just because he has some leverage, we do have the trade option as well. It’s really going to be Jb playing both sides and determine the best route.   I think he has more to his game as well. Heck I’ve seen it when he was in Florida. But 6 years is a big commitment for a player who’s stalled in progression the last two seasons. At this point it could go either way and there’s really no right answer, just a gamble that JB is going to have to make. JB likely already planned out his options when negotiating the one year extension. 

 

Me persoanlly id be very hesitant to signing anything over 4 years. Not just with Guddy but all contracts in generally. Too many teams make long term commitments and end up getting in trouble a few years down the road. Unless the kid is a upcoming star like Bo or soon to be Brock.  If Guddy wants term then his aav is going to drop quite a bit. (Like under 4).  Same with baertschi this year, 4 years max is all id go. 

[shiznak]

20 hours ago, aGENT said:

I'll say it for you @oldnews.

 

Strawman 

 

Declaring him a 2nd pair D whose strengths are in the defensive zone, pk'ing and physicality/deterrent is hardly an oversell. 

 

Calling him a barely replacement level, 3rd pairing D however, is certainly an undersell. And frankly, not accurate or intelligent commentary. 

I'm not undersell or oversell him at all. When it comes to Gudbranson, I'm pretty neutral. I don't use average ice-time or his poor advance stats as an argument for his worth on the team. Nor am I using my blind homerism to dictate his worth. 

 

I keep hearing "eye test" when Gudbranson's name comes up. Eye test is irrelevant when the opinion of his play comes from a bias view. The pro-Gudbranson crowd is always going to view him as a good shutdown guy, who plays hard minutes and the anti-Gudbranson crowd would always say he has limited attributes. 

 

From a neutral standpoint, he's a decent shutdown guy (yes, decent), who can log minutes and brings a physical element to the game that lacks in our defensive group, but will never be a guy you can rely on in key moments. Therefore, I can't justify  paying him more than 4.5M a season, even 4M is a stretch, just for his physical presence. There is always cheaper options on the open market, that could fill the void, if he isn't retain. 

 

Just for comparison sake:

Karl Alzner (age 24) - 4yrs, 2.8M per

• current contract - 5yrs, 4.6M

 

Mattias Ekholm - 6yrs, 3.75M per

Adam Larsson - 6yrs, 4.1M per

David Savard - 5yrs, 4.2M per

Rudko Gudas - 4yrs, 3.3Mper

 

Can you honestly say, Gudbranson should be paid more than any of these players? His worth is close to 3.5M - 4M, then 4M - 4.5M. 

[guntrix]

17 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

So you still won't answer the question I initially asked. I am shocked. 

What answer? You answered nothing. 

 

I'm going to slow clap away from your inability to comprehend why draft hype of 7 years ago and trade rumours aren't valid points. I've tried explaining but it seems that rose tint is a bit too thick. 

 

17 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Instead of actual discussion, you're pushing your tired narrative against a portion of the CDC that disagrees with you. 

Rich coming from a guy with very questionable points. Had it been me pushing the "his draft hype matters" and "rumours are fair game" schlick, it would have been a different response.

17 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Your reality is based on stats that aren't as airtight as you'd like to them to be. 

Haven't mentioned stats in a while because I haven't needed to but please do keep pushing those. Have a glass of water while you parch yourself reaching for your narratives.

 

17 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

So a superior team like the Predators didn't need to prepare for Vancouver yesterday? Speaking of one's pride being hurt, it's okay guntrix. 

Not really. I'm seeing it for what it is. 

You complain about cherry picking literally a few lines back and then you proceed to cherry pick one game. 

 

You complain about stats and you proceed to pick out Gud's stats (ironically, without any sort of context) against the Flyers.

 

You, sir, are a walking contradiction and basically epitomize hypocrisy. Although I must admit it's funny seeing you trip over your own arguments every couple posts.

 

17 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Comparing Russell to Gudbranson. Sweet. Russell is such a beast during the playoffs. Maybe he can get another own goal like he did yesterday?

 

I'll just resort to quoting your own material to answer your own points from now on.

 

17 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Simplify, cherry pick, rinse, repeat. 

 

[guntrix]

On November 30, 2017 at 3:29 PM, aGENT said:

You are aware you need to play playoff rounds to win the cup, right? Yes, something went 'wrong', they lost. Good teams lose in the 1st round all the time. Playoffs be hard yo.

Gudbranson missed 18 regular season games and the Panthers were still good enough for 103 points. I'm guessing this doesn't fit the narrative. 

[guntrix]

21 hours ago, aGENT said:

Calling him a barely replacement level, 3rd pairing D however, is certainly an undersell. And frankly, not accurate or intelligent commentary. 

Just to be clear. In your opinion, there's absolutely no way Gudbranson is a third pairing D by NHL standards? To say so would be inaccurate and unintelligent? 

 

17 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

You are an extremely derisive and negative poster.

Missed this bit and thought it was quite intriguing. 

 

I'm well known for my views on Virtanen (the perennial sleeping giant and CDC golden boy), Markstrom, some of Benning's moves and Gudbranson but I've gone out on a limb and defended guys like Gaunce, the Sedins, and even the scapegoats Edler, Gagner and Hutton. Hardly derisive. But hey, go ahead and slap a label on it if it helps you understand. 

 

Some folks' self-worth comes from their rep fishing from generic statements and cheerleading dialogue. I come here to voice my thoughts. I'll call a spade a spade no matter how much it may stain peoples' view of the team.

[khay]

2 hours ago, shiznak said:

I'm not undersell or oversell him at all. When it comes to Gudbranson, I'm pretty neutral. I don't use average ice-time or his poor advance stats as an argument for his worth on the team. Nor am I using my blind homerism to dictate his worth. 

 

I keep hearing "eye test" when Gudbranson's name comes up. Eye test is irrelevant when the opinion of his play comes from a bias view. The pro-Gudbranson crowd is always going to view him as a good shutdown guy, who plays hard minutes and the anti-Gudbranson crowd would always say he has limited attributes. 

 

From a neutral standpoint, he's a decent shutdown guy (yes, decent), who can log minutes and brings a physical element to the game that lacks in our defensive group, but will never be a guy you can rely on in key moments. Therefore, I can't justify  paying him more than 4.5M a season, even 4M is a stretch, just for his physical presence. There is always cheaper options on the open market, that could fill the void, if he isn't retain. 

 

Just for comparison sake:

Karl Alzner (age 24) - 4yrs, 2.8M per

• current contract - 5yrs, 4.6M

 

Mattias Ekholm - 6yrs, 3.75M per

Adam Larsson - 6yrs, 4.1M per

David Savard - 5yrs, 4.2M per

Rudko Gudas - 4yrs, 3.3Mper

 

Can you honestly say, Gudbranson should be paid more than any of these players? His worth is close to 3.5M - 4M, then 4M - 4.5M. 

Hmm Ekholm at 3.75? Wow that's a bargain.

 

I always was reminded of Matthias Ohlund; Ekholm's style is somewhat similar to Matthias Ohlund? Big guys that can defend the crease and can move the puck as well as shoot it pretty well.

 

[Phat Fingers]

On 2017-11-30 at 7:59 PM, VIC_CITY said:

Right, ignore all of the data that supports our argument. We're just a couple trolls. Makes sense.

You guys should get a room, it’s kinda cute how you constantly pat each other’s backs. 

 

You think that Guddy is a 5/6 d man, most of us don’t. I don’t think it’s Guddy that is the problem, nor Tanev. It’s the lack of a true puck mover or two in our current D. MDZ is a half decent guy at moving the puck, Pouliot is almost a rookie but has  the best outlet pass on the d corps. Edler is a liability, so is Hutton.  Stecher is either in a sophomore slump or stalled. In Fairness he is coming back for a pretty decent injury. 

 

Guddy is an important player for this club, it is the mediocre or underdeveloped puck moving  d men who need to be developed or replaced. IMO

[48MPHSlapShot]

On 11/30/2017 at 4:02 PM, aGENT said:

 

 

 

 

Not enough food yet troll?

Interesting how this post was glossed over.

[sampy]

6 hours ago, guntrix said:

 

I'm going to slow clap away from your inability to comprehend why draft hype of 7 years ago and trade rumours aren't valid points. I've tried explaining but it seems that rose tint is a bit too thick. 

 

Rich coming from a guy with very questionable points. Had it been me pushing the "his draft hype matters" and "rumours are fair game" schlick, it would have been a different response.

Haven't mentioned stats in a while because I haven't needed to but please do keep pushing those. Have a glass of water while you parch yourself reaching for your narratives.

 

You complain about cherry picking literally a few lines back and then you proceed to cherry pick one game. 

 

You complain about stats and you proceed to pick out Gud's stats (ironically, without any sort of context) against the Flyers.

 

You, sir, are a walking contradiction and basically epitomize hypocrisy. Although I must admit it's funny seeing you trip over your own arguments every couple posts.

 

 

I'll just resort to quoting your own material to answer your own points from now on.

 

 

Don't waste your energy trying to reason with PhillipBlunt. The guys a clown who gets off trolling and starting arguments about nothing.

 

Gudbranson plays an important physical and character role but is not worth over $5m. Hopefully he resigns for a reasonably cap hit.

[oldnews]

31 minutes ago, sampy said:

Don't waste your energy trying to reason with PhillipBlunt. The guys a clown who gets off trolling and starting arguments about nothing.

 

Calls another poster a "clown" and then proceeds to claim that they are 'trolling'.

 

the ironing.

[coryberg]

7 hours ago, shiznak said:

Just for comparison sake:

Karl Alzner (age 24) - 4yrs, 2.8M per

• current contract - 5yrs, 4.6M

 

Mattias Ekholm - 6yrs, 3.75M per

Adam Larsson - 6yrs, 4.1M per

David Savard - 5yrs, 4.2M per

Rudko Gudas - 4yrs, 3.3Mper

 

Can you honestly say, Gudbranson should be paid more than any of these players? His worth is close to 3.5M - 4M, then 4M - 4.5M. 

Just for actual comparison sake add these...

 

Brooks Orpik- 5 years, 5.5mil

Zack Bogosian- 7 years, 5.1mil

Andrew McDonald- 6 years, 5mil

Mark Methot- 4 years, 4.9mil

Paul martin- 4 years, 4.85mil

Brendan smith- 4 years 4.35mil

 

I could go on but there is no need. Cherry picking rfa deals that have gone well for certain teams is all fun and games.