Gaunce and Virtanen again?

[Fateless]

3 hours ago, AbrasiveAjax said:

One bottom 6 player hardly makes a team a contender or non contender in my humble opinion.

I wasn't suggesting that having Gaunce individually will be the reason a team loses out on a cup. What I meant was that its a symptom that the team lacks the high-end depth required to achieve a cup. Moves at the trade deadline are made year-in and year-out by contenders who seek to solidify their bottom six for a deep run. None of those teams are picking up forwards that can't score like Gaunce. 

My point was that if a team has Gaunce in the line-up, its because they're not contending and can have patience with a project player. 

[Where'd Luongo?]

2 hours ago, JamesB said:

 

 

Gaunce has been unlucky not to score, but he will need to start scoring soon.

 

Gaunce scored on his second shot in 2015/16. (It was actually a deflection off his skate if I remember correctly). Since then he has had 104 shots on goal without scoring again. That is an amazingly high number, especially for a forward. Even if we count the first one, he has 1 goal in 106 shots in the past 3 seasons.

 

At the other end of the spectrum, Boeser has 17 goals in 109 shots in NHL regular season games. I am not saying Gaunce has to equal Boeser. The league average shooting percentage is 9.3%. For forwards it is higher, roughly 11%. So we would expect Gaunce to have maybe 11 or 12 NHL goals so far, not just 1.

 

The normal conventional wisdom is that some guys are consistently effective shooters (like Stamkos, Crosby, Malkin, Laine, etc. -- and Boeser looks to be in that category) but most guys will converge to something close to the league average over time. Forwards who are consistently way below the league average will a hard time staying in the NHL, but if they are good set-up guys and generate quite a few assists, that can be okay. And of course defensive specialists can be valuable, especially if they contribute to the physical game.

 

I am not sure how much more rope Gaunce has. He is good defensively. He can pass the puck. He is big enough to wear down opponents in puck battles, and he is making hits.

 

Here is an interesting stat. I just calculated hits per minute played so far this year. Here are the Canuck leaders:

 

1. Biega -- 19.4%

2. Virtanen -- 13.0%

3. Dorsett -- 12.7%

4. Gaunce -- 11.7%

5. Gudbranson -- 11.6%

5. Del Zotto -- 10.3%

 

(But I am pretty sure that Guddy has the lead in "impact per hit".)

 

There is a big drop-off after MDZ. The next forward is Sutter at 5.4%.

 

Green has clearly made the decision that Gaunce is better than Burmistrov. And I agree. But if he wants to stay in the line-up when Sutter comes back, I think he needs to start putting the puck in the net at least occasionally.

Lololol hits per minute, let alone showing that as a percentage!

 

Imagine asking a car salesman miles per gallon and they say 13%!

[LegionOfDoom]

31 minutes ago, Alflives said:

@bree2

You don’t think Gaunce is a leader?  Do remember during his and Tryamkin’s prospect’s camp, how Gaunce literally pushed Try up this last bit of the Grouse Grind.  Do you remember Gaunce blocking a shot with his face, and staying out and finishing his shift bleeding?  He’s been a captain on many of his teams too.  Explain why Gaunce is not a leader.  

I agree with you, he’s not a player a coach is putting on the ice to score goals. He plays the roll of tilting that ice and that is by pressing opposition on the forecheck and lifting his team up emotionally. good to see you notice this quality in him as well. And he has been snake bit for sure this year he should have 3-5 goals by now 

[Ajax-]

32 minutes ago, Fateless said:

I wasn't suggesting that having Gaunce individually will be the reason a team loses out on a cup. What I meant was that its a symptom that the team lacks the high-end depth required to achieve a cup. Moves at the trade deadline are made year-in and year-out by contenders who seek to solidify their bottom six for a deep run. None of those teams are picking up forwards that can't score like Gaunce. 

My point was that if a team has Gaunce in the line-up, its because they're not contending and can have patience with a project player. 

Tom Kuhnhackl

[Phat Fingers]

3 hours ago, Ronning4center said:

It's a solid 4th line and a good opportunity for minutes.  Exactly what Jake needs.  Both Burrows and Kessler started the same.

Great point. 

 

Burrows, Kesler and Hansen took a lot of time to get to their peak. The lockout year was pivotal to the Canucks surge. IMO most of the pieces are there, time is needed to bring it all together. Have these guys become journeymen and then earn some more ice time and better zone starts. 

[combover]

I like that line it’s another line  of younger players(21jv,23bg,24mg) that are contributing and have been effective at both ends of the ice.

i m A fan of gaunce and what he brings, plays hard kills penalties forechecks and creates space. He’s a reliable player that’s young and coming off a serious injury/surgery. 

Its not like he’s 26 or 27 and still unable to crack a line up cough(megna Chaput) 

He’s playing well. 

He could be a very good 3/4 line shutdown player going forward. 

 

 

When sutter does come back move gaunce to a wing and JV on the other side.

 

 

 

[6string]

The way Boucher is playing in Utica, he is scoring and more importantly he is playing hungry ( chasing down loose pucks ) by the highlights I've viewed.

 

We need the scoring as our Goals For indicate ( fourth from the bottom of the WC ), our first unit PP had a great road trip and just maybe Boucher can fit into ( thinking Gagner replacement ) the second unit.

 

Gaunce has got to put up some goals following his first strong offensive game of the year against the Laffs.

 

 

[King Heffy]

Gaunce isn't here to put up a ton of goals.  He's here to create some space, wear down the opposition, and play well defensively.  He performs his role well enough and has the potential to improve still.

 

He brings a needed skillset that helps compensate for the lack of snarl from our top 9.

[Green Goblin]

Gaunce isn't given many offensive opportunities so of course his chances of scoring are low. But as long as Gaunce is on the ice for more goals for than goals against, I'm okay with him on our 4th line.

 

How about we put Jordan Subban at forward and Gaunce at defense? 

 

Play to their strengths! Am I right? (Yes I am right)

[Ajax-]

2 minutes ago, Green Goblin said:

Gaunce isn't given many offensive opportunities so of course his chances of scoring are low. But as long as Gaunce is on the ice for more goals for than goals against, I'm okay with him on our 4th line.

 

How about we put Jordan Subban at forward and Gaunce at defense? 

 

Play to their strengths! Am I right? (Yes I am right)

i love it, perfect idea

[appleboy]

Gaunce seems to be better on the wing but is capable of doing what ever is asked of him. These two do look good together but it would be even better once they can find a solid center for them. I would like to see them with Sutter when he is back. It could become an exceptional shut down line.

Now let's get Jake involved in the PK. If he could figure that out then he would become even more usefull.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Down the road, Gaudette might fit well with these two?

[reyezone]

Good role for these young assets to develop chemistry and defensive responsibility to a higher order.

 

ICETIME

 

[falcons]

The real question is Mark Hamill the love child of Oliver reed ? 

[VIC_CITY]

7 hours ago, Fateless said:

I'm over Gaunce.

 

I appreciate the defensive game he brings, but this goalless drought is getting a little ridiculous. And people on here pretend that once he gets once he's gonna make a habit of scoring. There is no evidence to support that.

 

No contending team will have a forward on it that can't score a goal. Until Gaunce is off this team, we won't be a contender unless he massively turns his game around.

He brings so much to this team though, don't worry about the goals. If he keeps doing what he's doing, the goals will come. The important thing is that he's playing the game the right way, working hard and making smart plays. He's noticeable out there even though he isn't scoring. Even if he only ends up being a 5-8 goals and 10 assists type of player (which will be easily attainable in a couple years IMO), he will be a big asset on the 4th line. He's only 23 and already in the conversation for our best defensive forward. 

[Gaudette Celly]

6 hours ago, JamesB said:

Gaunce has been unlucky not to score, but he will need to start scoring soon.

 

2 hours ago, 6string said:

Gaunce has got to put up some goals following his first strong offensive game of the year against the Laffs.

No he doesn't.  He's in his second season, and is a solid two-way player, doing everything asked of him.  The proof?  Look at his ice-time and deployment, and simply watch how he plays.

Right now he's a 4th line shutdown player establishing himself in the league, same as he started in Utica.  He works hard, is responsible, has very good speed for his size, solid hockey IQ, and a good shot.  He will likely become a third liner who will PK, chip in moderate offense, and be used in critical situations like protecting a lead in the last minutes -- which he's already doing.  Travis knows and trusts him well.

[6string]

Just now, Hutton Wink said:

 

No he doesn't.  He's in his second season, and is a solid two-way player, doing everything asked of him.  The proof?  Look at his ice-time and deployment, and simply watch how he plays.

Right now he's a 4th line shutdown player establishing himself in the league, same as he started in Utica.  He works hard, is responsible, has very good speed for his size, solid hockey IQ, and a good shot.  He will likely become a third liner who will PK, chip in moderate offense, and be used in critical situations like protecting a lead in the last minutes -- which he's already doing.  Travis knows and trusts him well.

Well we differ on this but I do expect him to score at some point.

 

If this were five years ago or so even an enforcer would put up more goals in that role than Gaunce has in his role.

[Gaudette Celly]

Of course he'll score, but what's the rush?  He's creating scoring opportunities, moreso than some like Gagner and Burmistrov have been.

[Hairy Kneel]

8 hours ago, JamesB said:

1. Biega -- 19.4%

2. Virtanen -- 13.0%

3. Dorsett -- 12.7%

4. Gaunce -- 11.7%

5. Gudbranson -- 11.6%

 

This is why we need Bulldog to get a few games on the 4th line. Plus he draws penalties from retaliation.

[Angry Goose]

7 hours ago, oldnews said:

No, actually they don't.

Gaunce is hovering in around - actually below - Manny Malhotra territory - at 13% offensive zone starts.

No coach expects a player to produce in that kind of a role - let alone a rookie shutdown guy stepping up in the absence of guys like Sutter and Dorsett.

Likewise with Jake - when he's with Gaunce in that role -as they were last game - there is no 'need to start producing'.

Last game they had the best underlying numbers on the team - very low ozone starts, break even corsi - and they're generating positive territory for the other lines to take advantage of.  As long as they're playing like that and producing that kind of possession and territorial results, they are more than doing their job and it's on the other lines to actually do the producing.

Do you think when Green was a player, perhaps getting hard matched against the other teams best line all night, he didn't expect himself to chip in offensively? 

 

They all have good offensive talent.  You've stated how well they are doing numbers wise playing tough minutes.  Great.  But I doubt all Green expects of them is good "possession and territorial results".

 

But hey, I could be wrong.