Aquilini’s intentions with JB

[WeneedLumme]

16 minutes ago, pomorick said:

I like Jake, but it was full retard to take him ahead of Ehlers!

I wanted Ehlers too, but it was obvious why he picked Jake. JB is building a team for the playoffs, not so much for the regular season. In the playoffs, when the refs throw their whistles away and smaller skilled players get bullied and hog tied (especially when they are Canucks), a guy like Jake can blast his way through checkers and take care of himself.

[DeNiro]

31 minutes ago, WeneedLumme said:

I wanted Ehlers too, but it was obvious why he picked Jake. JB is building a team for the playoffs, not so much for the regular season. In the playoffs, when the refs throw their whistles away and smaller skilled players get bullied and hog tied (especially when they are Canucks), a guy like Jake can blast his way through checkers and take care of himself.

We'll see if that theory holds true for the jets in this years playoffs. Something tells me Ehlers is gonna play hero.

[wai_lai416]

6 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

I wanted Ehlers too, but it was obvious why he picked Jake. JB is building a team for the playoffs, not so much for the regular season. In the playoffs, when the refs throw their whistles away and smaller skilled players get bullied and hog tied (especially when they are Canucks), a guy like Jake can blast his way through checkers and take care of himself.

if that's the case he can easily trade WAY down the list and probably still have Virtanen sitting there.. most don't even have him pegged in the top 20

[Baggins]

10 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

if that's the case he can easily trade WAY down the list and probably still have Virtanen sitting there.. most don't even have him pegged in the top 20

Most had him 6th to 11th and Ehlers 4th to 11th.

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2014-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings/

 

Curiously Central Scouting had Virtanen ranked 6th and Ehlers 13th among North American skaters..

[WeneedLumme]

3 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

if that's the case he can easily trade WAY down the list and probably still have Virtanen sitting there.. most don't even have him pegged in the top 20

Is that so? Do you have any facts to back this up, or is this just the usual garbage you fabricate to annoy the Canucks fans?

[The_Rocket]

On 2018-01-28 at 8:00 PM, VanGnome said:

Ultimately at the "being a GM thing", there are arguably 3 categories which matter:

Contract Negotiations
Personnel Trades
Drafting

Of the three, Benning has really only excelled at the drafting aspect. There is no denying that Benning has a real eye for scouting and talent. His trading and signings have been pretty questionable.

I'd be more than okay if Benning was kept on as the President of Professional and Amateur Scouting, and someone with a bit more chops in terms of being able to manage player personnel decisions and contract negotiation was brought in as GM.

I don't think that answer is Holland. Holland was surrounded by a lot of good hockey people who ultimately left for brighter pastures Jim Nil left for Dallas who is doing well, and Steve Yzerman who left for Tampa who's done a pretty good job but inherited a team with two all-stars in Stamkos and Hedman, but drafted 2 more in Vasilevsky and Kucherov.

Not sure who else would be available as of right now for GM, but I'm sure there will be some come the end of the season.

Obviously we can all agree him is good at drafting, so how he performs in trades and contracts need to be evaluated against his drafting to determine how he’s doing. 

 

For trades, he’s made a few good ones (baer, dahlen, goldobin etc.) along with a few that are good, but really any GM would have been able to make (bieksa, garrisson, etc.). He’s made some that probably could have been better, but ultimately weren’t bad trades (kesler, then flipping bonino for sutter). He’s missed some opportunities to trade players (hamhuis, vrbata, Miller) and he has some trades where the Canucks ended up on the bottom, but ultimately don’t have a significant impact on this team not being a contender right now (Gudbransen, forsling, vey, etem). Important to note though is he never traded a 1st round pick. He knows they have value. 

 

Ultimately I say his trading has been pretty meh, not much good stuff but not much bad stuff, although his most recent trades have all been good which could indicate he is improving. At least he’s not as bad as Chirelli who gave up a 1st and a 2nd for Reinhart, eberle for strome, and hall for Larsson. 

 

For Bennings contracts, there’s a lot of overpayments, but as far as I’m concerned there is only 1 actual bad contract (I.e. one that will restrict his ability to sign other FA or RFAs) and that is Erikssons. Vrbata, Gagner, del zotto, sbisa, sutter may all be over payed, but their contracts won’t prevent him from being able to sign other players because the length and value are still small. His only good signings I believe are the horvat contract and the miller contract. Ultimately, I would say he has under performed In this area. 

 

 

Based on this, I would say Bennings drafting is so good that it outweighs his meh trading and underperformance in contracts, so I personally would re-sign him. But, if aqua puts more stock in contracts (it is they’re money being spent we’re talking about here) and trades, then there is a case for not bringing him back. 

[oldnews]

5 hours ago, Baggins said:

Most had him 6th to 11th and Ehlers 4th to 11th.

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2014-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings/

 

Curiously Central Scouting had Virtanen ranked 6th and Ehlers 13th among North American skaters..

and Bob McKenzie had him at 7, Ehlers at 10.

 

Crystal balls are always more accurate looking backwards though.

[oldnews]

15 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

Only he knows that.  

You're also assuming that Benning sold him on this idea.  I think it's more likely Aqualini was on a mission to find a GM that could turn this core into a contender again.  It wasn't that far removed from back to back top of the league finishes.  

Except that the guy hiring the GM was Linden - with alleged autonomy - and he hired a GM known for scouting and drafting - so clearly their intention was transition - whatever the compromise over the form that would take consisted of.  I find it hard to believe that anyone believes they thought they were going to continue to contend - I think that is a misreading or manipulation of what they meant by remaining competitive and turning around a team that had just been through a Tortorella tire fire.  Btw they did turn the team around, even under WD, even without any real viable youth pushing into the lineup, so the core wasn't as horrible as people believed.  Riding the contradiction of expecting them to either re-contend - or bring in the wrecking balls and tear it right down - isn't and wasn't realistic - and I think you're bright enough to realize that.   They were asset thin, and draft position wasn't going to change that.

 

The reality was that they needed to re-pump most of their veteran assets to squeeze trade value out of them - the majority of them, by far had just had the worst seasons of their career.  The whole - why didn't they load up on first round picks / high picks question is borderline absurd.  Aside from Kesler, where were they getting a 1st round pick out of a veteran in 2014? 

Coming in, dumping all their veterans and selling low in the process, while having an extremely thin prospect pool - not hard whatsoever to see why an owner or manager might not want that carried out - and no one really has any evidence that the way they split the difference hurt the franchise in the long run.  By waiting and selling assets on a continuum they most likely managed to get much better returns on players like Hansen, Burrows than they would have had they dumped them at the end of 2014, when they'd both just had horrible seasons, when the entire team did with few exceptions.  Boeser may as well have been a lottery pick - no real 'damage' in the one season they finished 'too high'.  They eventually lost on a few guys like Hamhuis (who had a NTC  and a broken face) - or Vrbata who appeared to have no interest in playoff hockey - but the story that they missed the 'rething' - or rethinged by accident - is grossly oversimplified. 

 

 

 

 

[SingleThorn]

6 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

if that's the case he can easily trade WAY down the list and probably still have Virtanen sitting there.. most don't even have him pegged in the top 20

More garbage from the Toronto kid ( sorry......... the guy born on 16th April ). 13 mocks, your crap was factual just once. Probably as good as it'll get from you.

[CanadianRugby]

9 hours ago, oldnews said:

Except that the guy hiring the GM was Linden - with alleged autonomy - and he hired a GM known for scouting and drafting - so clearly their intention was transition - whatever the compromise over the form that would take consisted of.  I find it hard to believe that anyone believes they thought they were going to continue to contend - I think that is a misreading or manipulation of what they meant by remaining competitive and turning around a team that had just been through a Tortorella tire fire.  Btw they did turn the team around, even under WD, even without any real viable youth pushing into the lineup, so the core wasn't as horrible as people believed.  Riding the contradiction of expecting them to either re-contend - or bring in the wrecking balls and tear it right down - isn't and wasn't realistic - and I think you're bright enough to realize that.   They were asset thin, and draft position wasn't going to change that.

 

The reality was that they needed to re-pump most of their veteran assets to squeeze trade value out of them - the majority of them, by far had just had the worst seasons of their career.  The whole - why didn't they load up on first round picks / high picks question is borderline absurd.  Aside from Kesler, where were they getting a 1st round pick out of a veteran in 2014? 

Coming in, dumping all their veterans and selling low in the process, while having an extremely thin prospect pool - not hard whatsoever to see why an owner or manager might not want that carried out - and no one really has any evidence that the way they split the difference hurt the franchise in the long run.  By waiting and selling assets on a continuum they most likely managed to get much better returns on players like Hansen, Burrows than they would have had they dumped them at the end of 2014, when they'd both just had horrible seasons, when the entire team did with few exceptions.  Boeser may as well have been a lottery pick - no real 'damage' in the one season they finished 'too high'.  They eventually lost on a few guys like Hamhuis (who had a NTC  and a broken face) - or Vrbata who appeared to have no interest in playoff hockey - but the story that they missed the 'rething' - or rethinged by accident - is grossly oversimplified. 

That is a whole lot of pure speculation presented as fact.  

 

You say they were planning a rebuild.

Benning disagrees.

 

You say we couldn't have gotten high draft picks for our vets.  What??? 

Martin Hanzal and Ryan White can get a 1st and a 2nd, but we can't get anything for the guys that recently went back to back President's trophies? 

 

Everyone other than Edler that was asked to waive their NTC/NMC agreed to do so.  

 

It makes no sense not trade your past their prime vets, apparently because you have a scheme to first increase their trade value.  In real life, old players usually decline with age.   Also, draft position wasn't going to change their lack of assets?  I thought this was a rebuild, that's how you rebuild, through high draft position.  

 

Jesus man, you have a new theory/story every year about this retool/rebuild. 

[oldnews]

4 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

That is a whole lot of pure speculation presented as fact.  

 

It's obvious to me that you didn't read the post you're not really responding to.

[CanadianRugby]

On ‎2018‎-‎01‎-‎28 at 7:00 PM, VanGnome said:

Ultimately at the "being a GM thing", there are arguably 3 categories which matter:

Contract Negotiations
Personnel Trades
Drafting

Of the three, Benning has really only excelled at the drafting aspect. There is no denying that Benning has a real eye for scouting and talent. His trading and signings have been pretty questionable.

I'd be more than okay if Benning was kept on as the President of Professional and Amateur Scouting, and someone with a bit more chops in terms of being able to manage player personnel decisions and contract negotiation was brought in as GM.

I don't think that answer is Holland. Holland was surrounded by a lot of good hockey people who ultimately left for brighter pastures Jim Nil left for Dallas who is doing well, and Steve Yzerman who left for Tampa who's done a pretty good job but inherited a team with two all-stars in Stamkos and Hedman, but drafted 2 more in Vasilevsky and Kucherov.

Not sure who else would be available as of right now for GM, but I'm sure there will be some come the end of the season.

I think there's a 4th "being a GM thing."  Choosing the staff around you, in large part I mean the scouting staff.  Benning did an excellent job assembling them.  I could be wrong but lower picks are the scout's picks, and Vancouver has been doing very well in those.  High picks are more of the GM's picks because he'll watch them personally a lot.  He's done ok with those.  Well with Petterson, who knows with OJ and not well with Virtanen.  

 

I think he's done ok with trades, won some and lost some.  Really bad with contracts, should never have fired Gilman.  

Where he gets my worst grade is direction of team.  Main goal should have been draft picks and prospects, not playoffs.  

[Hugor Hill]

Imagine us winning the Dahlin sweepstake, then Aquilini forces Linden/Benning or the the new GM to trade for immediate help...

[NewbieCanuckFan]

12 hours ago, Canadian Clay said:

Important to note though is he never traded a 1st round pick. 

Gillis, who dealt ALOT of picks, only himself dealt one 1st round pick (25th overall pick) in 6 years of drafts.

[Gaudette Celly]

On 2/12/2018 at 2:21 PM, oldnews said:

Speculation HW - and who knows about that?   Is it the crux of some pivotal decisions?  I sure hope not - but really, that is/should be Benning's decision, and Linden has fairly clearly endorsed Benning's work - so I'm focusing on what I've heard, not what I have not.

Yes, but the quote "Trevor will make all of the decisions on hockey-related personnel, coaches, players, free agents" is rather disconcerting, as those decisions are the job of the GM, not the President.  Even if it's just to rubber-stamp, it makes the GM little more than the boss's helper.  And in this case in particular, it should be the man with front-office experience making those decisions, not the former player.  My take would have been that Benning advises Trevor on what he's doing, and unless Linden has serious reservations he trusts his judgement and lets him do his job.  Then when there's something bigger like a large trade or Eriksson signing that's when the owners get involved to some degree.

[oldnews]

10 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Yes, but the quote "Trevor will make all of the decisions on hockey-related personnel, coaches, players, free agents" is rather disconcerting, as those decisions are the job of the GM, not the President.  Even if it's just to rubber-stamp, it makes the GM little more than the boss's helper.  And in this case in particular, it should be the man with front-office experience making those decisions, not the former player.  My take would have been that Benning advises Trevor on what he's doing, and unless Linden has serious reservations he trusts his judgement and lets him do his job.  Then when there's something bigger like a large trade or Eriksson signing that's when the owners get involved to some degree.

They didn't have a GM/Benning at that point - I'd assume that meant that all those parameters come under Linden's jurisdiction - including hiring a GM - who then should - as you point  out - be able to do his job.  I don't see Benning as Linden's rubber stamp - at all.   Who hired Weisbrod for example?  That would be a Benning decision - as should the rest of his scouting staff.

But the quote is not disconcerting in the sense that the GM - hiring one, re-signing or not - should then fall under LInden's decision making.  I hope that is still in fact the case, because the alternative is a third top to bottom regime change in a decade.  I think that's a particularly bad idea in the midst of the mandate Linden was given.

[189lb enforcers?]

2 hours ago, Hugor Hill said:

Imagine us winning the Dahlin sweepstake, then Aquilini forces Linden/Benning or the the new GM to trade for immediate help...

I don’t. 

I imagine the owner is a wise business man and a fan of the team as well.

Enough of the boogie man owner-interference projections, guys. 

[Harvey Spector]

The owner of the Vancouver Canucks is Francesco Aquilini.  We should probably change the title of this thread to the correct spelling of his name.  After all, he is the owner.  Respect...

 

@Alflives  May you do the honour my little furry friend?  Thanks...

[Baggins]

17 hours ago, Canadian Clay said:

He’s missed some opportunities to trade players (hamhuis, vrbata, Miller)

Both Miller and Hamhuis had full ntc's. Hamhuis gave two teams only. Chicago had no interest and Dallas had higher interest in Russell. They got their man and made last minute crap offer for Hamhuis. Washington called with an offer and Hamhuis refused to go there. Miller only gave Cali teams as an option and none bit. Vrbata said himself in an interview he gave a list of teams that wouldn't be interested because he didn't want to move with his wife due to have a baby. Those aren't "missed opportunities" those are players exercising their contractual rights which ties the GM's hands.

[SingleThorn]

3 hours ago, Baggins said:

Both Miller and Hamhuis had full ntc's. Hamhuis gave two teams only. Chicago had no interest and Dallas had higher interest in Russell. They got their man and made last minute crap offer for Hamhuis. Washington called with an offer and Hamhuis refused to go there. Miller only gave Cali teams as an option and none bit. Vrbata said himself in an interview he gave a list of teams that wouldn't be interested because he didn't want to move with his wife due to have a baby. Those aren't "missed opportunities" those are players exercising their contractual rights which ties the GM's hands.

Agree. JB really only had one tradable asset, Hamhuis. Iirc, DH was injured close to the TDL. Add to that, Dallas did the dirty and tried to back a green GM into a last moment rash decision. If JB had fallen for the Dallas crap, he would have been seen as a total trade patsy by the other GMs. He was played. I think he probably learned a great deal from that little bit of alpha GMing. He is a veteran GM now. That won't ( shouldn't ) happen again !