Aquilini’s intentions with JB

[Provost]

I am still on the fence.  He has made some great trades and great draft picks in later rounds.

He also missed on one if not two of our top picks (Virtanen and maybe Juolevi), which is basically unforgivable for a team in our position.. especially when he went off the board a little for both of them by picking them higher than most figured they would be.

The issue for me is that if you extend him it pretty much has to be for 3-4 years.  GMs don't get qualifying offers to sign for an extra year and see how things go.  He deserves another year to see how his plan progresses, he has not earned a real extension yet though.  Is Aquilini happy enough with the progress to keep JB for that long or eat most of a contract in case he wants to fire him next year?

 

[Provost]

1 hour ago, Me_ said:

 

The most recent pre-Benning player to come out of the Vancouver drafting system to have success is Hodgson (1/10 '08) and we all know how that career went; total career record of 328GP 64G 78A 142Pts. After him, is Grabner (1/14 '06) with a current record of 522GP 152G 87A 239Pts and Raymond (2/51 '05) at 546GP 115G136A 261Pts. One could make a case for Schroeder (1/22 '09) 165GP 18G 24A 142Pts and Connauton (3/83 '09) who has a current record of 229GP 16G 37A 53Pts. So the last time the Canucks drafted well, and by well I mean someone makes it as a regular came 10 years ago. Let that also sink in.

 

 

Ya, I wish we had a guy like Horvat on our team having success.

I also wish Hutton had come out of the late rounds to unexpectedly become a legitimate NHL defenceman.

[Me_]

15 minutes ago, Provost said:

Ya, I wish we had a guy like Horvat on our team having success.

I also wish Hutton had come out of the late rounds to unexpectedly become a legitimate NHL defenceman.

Yes you're very right. +1

[combover]

1 hour ago, HarryCanuck said:

Who said anything about not doing anything, I pretty sure we will net some assets this trade deadline. 

 

I think you should give Mike Gillis a call, he’s the one who gave them the NTC. Personally, I think the Sedins earned it. 

 

The bigger problem here is leaving Benning in limbo ahead of the trade deadline. I’d want a motivated GM vs a GM who may not be here in the future. Saying that, from what I see of Benning, he strikes me as a man with integrity and will do the best he can to make the club better. 

Nope benning said in an interview  the sedins decision has an effect on whether he try’s to resign some of the vets like vanek or move him as well as some other deals.

you can call Gillis on his no trade clauses but before you do you might want to ask benning about those as well since he’s handed them out like candy too.

miller sutter vrbata eriksson im sure I’m missing some. 

Benning since he got here has tried his best to buy a playoff spot with ufa signings the team is getting top 6 picks even thou he’s had a blank check from the owners to do so. 

Now weather that’s what benning sold them when he was hired in which case he’s a miserable failure. Or it what the owners wanted and he said he could do it and it’s the owners fault for thinking expensive patches could buy playoffs and again it falls on jim for being unable to achieve that goal.

the team has spent to the cap and go after ufas every year he’s been here in order to finish last i just don’t buy that. 

 Benning strikes me as a salesman he tells you what you want to hear in order to get you to buy in the problem is like most salemen the follow through when things don’t work.

i don’t think he’s a terrible gm but I don’t think he’s anything special  either.

Either way resign replaced I won’t be upset. 

 

I comes down to what HE promised owners when he was hired and has he deliver on those promises nobody on here knows those facts.

 

 

 

 

[alfstonker]

5 hours ago, Tre Mac said:

To play devil's advocate, it was reported that Brackett was the one that pushed hard to draft Boeser, and that he 'fell' to the Nucks at 23.  And aside from Boeser, no other pick has done anything(of relevance) in the NHL.  There's been some iffy trades made, and the Eriksson signing looks atrocious.  I assume Aquaman is impatient, so this is probably why he hasn't been resign. 

 

Now don't make this out like I am anti Benning, I would definitely resign him. 

 

[Curmudgeon]

 

Consider for a moment what happens if Benning is let go and another GM is brought in.

 

1. Linden is still the president and still has his hand in everything. This may not be a good thing as nothing he has done should convince us that he knows what he is doing.

2. The new person would first want an organizational review, meaning people get fired and new people get hired. This causes unnecessary disruption.

3. The new person will also review the 50-man roster and will undoubtedly place different value on the existing players. This will mean a lot of them will be moved, just because that's what new GMs do, they bring in their own people and move out existing players. (Remember Mike Keenan? He just moved guys because he could and because he was an arrogant jerk.)

4. The Aquilinis have proven they don't necessarily hire the best hockey people. They always try to be different. See: Mike Gillis with no experience as a GM, Trevor Linden with zero experience as a hockey executive, Jim Benning with no experience as GM, Willie Desjardins as coach with no NHL experience. Wanna bet that the Aquilinis already have somebody in mind, and it will be someone nobody would ever expect? That's what they do.

5. Benning's drafting has been better than any of his predecessors.

From 2014: Jake and Jared playing in the NHL, though not starring. Demko who may be the best in the AHL right now. Tryamkin would be a top four guy if he didn't bail so he could go back to the KHL. Forsling playing for Chicago.

From 2015: Brock. Guillaume Brisebois developing in the AHL. Adam Gaudette in the fifth round, who is leading the NCAA in scoring and apparently has a Kesleresque approach to his game.

From 2016: Juolevi playing pro in the Finnish League and, according to Sami Salo, doing very well. Lockwood out for the season but looks like a better skating version of Matt Cooke. Stukel and McKenzie, who could provide minor league scoring depth.

From 2017: Pettersson leading his team in every way as a 19 year-old, Kole Lind is leading his team and starring in the Dub. Gadjovich looks like a solid third or fourth liner, DiPietro having a great season with a bad team and Matt Brassard really stepping it up.

6. Benning's acquistions that worked out, even if only temporarily: Vrbata, Bonino, Miller, Dorsett, Baertschi, Granlund, Stecher, Vanek, Pouliot.

7. Benning's acquisitions that are questionable: Sbisa, Eriksson, Sutter, Gudbranson, Burmistrov, Larsen, Rodin.

 

In short, Benning and his staff have apparently drafted well and are developing players patiently. Free agency has been hit and miss and trades even more so. However, with another high pick this year and the possibility of acquiring additional picks, Benning and his staff should find a couple of players who are close to being NHL ready. 

 

Verdict: Extend Benning for three years. If the team isn't performing dramatically better in the second year, cut him loose. But let him at least try to finish what he started. Five years from now, this team will be led by Boeser, Pettersson, Horvat (not a Benning pick), Goldobin, Dahlen, Juolevi, LInd, Gadjovich, Virtanen, Stecher, Brisebois, Gaudette, Baertschi and 2018 first, second and third round picks. There will also be NCAA free agents, UFAs and Europeans. 

 

This whole board needs to exercise a higher degree of patience. Change takes time.

 

 

[King Heffy]

6 hours ago, Provost said:

I am still on the fence.  He has made some great trades and great draft picks in later rounds.

He also missed on one if not two of our top picks (Virtanen and maybe Juolevi), which is basically unforgivable for a team in our position.. especially when he went off the board a little for both of them by picking them higher than most figured they would be.

The issue for me is that if you extend him it pretty much has to be for 3-4 years.  GMs don't get qualifying offers to sign for an extra year and see how things go.  He deserves another year to see how his plan progresses, he has not earned a real extension yet though.  Is Aquilini happy enough with the progress to keep JB for that long or eat most of a contract in case he wants to fire him next year?

 

It's way too early to consider Jake and OJ misses as guys with their skillsets typically take longer to develop.  Jake's looking like he's starting to put it together and we should be able to play him with more skilled guys next year.  OJ and Sergachev were neck and neck for best defenseman available and were both definite candidates for the BPA given Tkachuk's character issues.  The pick wasn't off the board at all.  Juolevi looks like he could bring a Salo-like stability to the back end.  We need that going forward, especially if we move Tanev.

 

People were also whining about the Pettersson pick that's looking like a home-run too.

[Provost]

5 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

It's way too early to consider Jake and OJ misses as guys with their skillsets typically take longer to develop.  Jake's looking like he's starting to put it together and we should be able to play him with more skilled guys next year.  OJ and Sergachev were neck and neck for best defenseman available and were both definite candidates for the BPA given Tkachuk's character issues.  The pick wasn't off the board at all.  Juolevi looks like he could bring a Salo-like stability to the back end.  We need that going forward, especially if we move Tanev.

 

People were also whining about the Pettersson pick that's looking like a home-run too.

Except none of those things are actually true.

 

[DeNiro]

7 hours ago, Provost said:

I am still on the fence.  He has made some great trades and great draft picks in later rounds.

He also missed on one if not two of our top picks (Virtanen and maybe Juolevi), which is basically unforgivable for a team in our position.. especially when he went off the board a little for both of them by picking them higher than most figured they would be.

The issue for me is that if you extend him it pretty much has to be for 3-4 years.  GMs don't get qualifying offers to sign for an extra year and see how things go.  He deserves another year to see how his plan progresses, he has not earned a real extension yet though.  Is Aquilini happy enough with the progress to keep JB for that long or eat most of a contract in case he wants to fire him next year?

 

Juolevi was in no way shape or form off the board. Go back and check the pre-draft rankings and analysts picks and you'll see he was a solid choice at number 5.

 

The guy had just won the memorial cup and a gold medal at the world juniors, and was a key contributor in both those wins.That's a pretty good resume for a highly ranked D-man if you ask me. 

 

I'll give you Virtanen. He was far from the best player available, and had he not been a hometown boy, I don't think we would have selected him.

[Crabcakes]

7 hours ago, Darius71 said:

He decided to give all the money back and moved to Catalina island to teach locals how to play road hockey?

if only......

[riffraff]

4 hours ago, alfstonker said:

I rep for any lebowski reference.

[riffraff]

7 hours ago, Provost said:

Ya, I wish we had a guy like Horvat on our team having success.

I also wish Hutton had come out of the late rounds to unexpectedly become a legitimate NHL defenceman.

Hutton sucks this year.

[Crabcakes]

4 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:

 

Consider for a moment what happens if Benning is let go and another GM is brought in.

 

1. Linden is still the president and still has his hand in everything. This may not be a good thing as nothing he has done should convince us that he knows what he is doing.

2. The new person would first want an organizational review, meaning people get fired and new people get hired. This causes unnecessary disruption.

3. The new person will also review the 50-man roster and will undoubtedly place different value on the existing players. This will mean a lot of them will be moved, just because that's what new GMs do, they bring in their own people and move out existing players. (Remember Mike Keenan? He just moved guys because he could and because he was an arrogant jerk.)

4. The Aquilinis have proven they don't necessarily hire the best hockey people. They always try to be different. See: Mike Gillis with no experience as a GM, Trevor Linden with zero experience as a hockey executive, Jim Benning with no experience as GM, Willie Desjardins as coach with no NHL experience. Wanna bet that the Aquilinis already have somebody in mind, and it will be someone nobody would ever expect? That's what they do.

5. Benning's drafting has been better than any of his predecessors.

From 2014: Jake and Jared playing in the NHL, though not starring. Demko who may be the best in the AHL right now. Tryamkin would be a top four guy if he didn't bail so he could go back to the KHL. Forsling playing for Chicago.

From 2015: Brock. Guillaume Brisebois developing in the AHL. Adam Gaudette in the fifth round, who is leading the NCAA in scoring and apparently has a Kesleresque approach to his game.

From 2016: Juolevi playing pro in the Finnish League and, according to Sami Salo, doing very well. Lockwood out for the season but looks like a better skating version of Matt Cooke. Stukel and McKenzie, who could provide minor league scoring depth.

From 2017: Pettersson leading his team in every way as a 19 year-old, Kole Lind is leading his team and starring in the Dub. Gadjovich looks like a solid third or fourth liner, DiPietro having a great season with a bad team and Matt Brassard really stepping it up.

6. Benning's acquistions that worked out, even if only temporarily: Vrbata, Bonino, Miller, Dorsett, Baertschi, Granlund, Stecher, Vanek, Pouliot.

7. Benning's acquisitions that are questionable: Sbisa, Eriksson, Sutter, Gudbranson, Burmistrov, Larsen, Rodin.

 

In short, Benning and his staff have apparently drafted well and are developing players patiently. Free agency has been hit and miss and trades even more so. However, with another high pick this year and the possibility of acquiring additional picks, Benning and his staff should find a couple of players who are close to being NHL ready. 

 

Verdict: Extend Benning for three years. If the team isn't performing dramatically better in the second year, cut him loose. But let him at least try to finish what he started. Five years from now, this team will be led by Boeser, Pettersson, Horvat (not a Benning pick), Goldobin, Dahlen, Juolevi, LInd, Gadjovich, Virtanen, Stecher, Brisebois, Gaudette, Baertschi and 2018 first, second and third round picks. There will also be NCAA free agents, UFAs and Europeans. 

 

This whole board needs to exercise a higher degree of patience. Change takes time.

 

 

Good post.

 

Your approach is right.  You've methodically surveyed the situation and come to the right conclusion imo.  I only hope that Aquilini is as smart.  I fear not.

 

The plan was to be more competitive than they have been.  While this can be attributed to injuries, this is not the whole story.  Bartkowski, Weber and Sbisa were a poor substitute for Hamhuis and Bieksa.  Although Benning has made improvements on the 2015-16 defense with the addition of Stecher, Gudbranson, MDZ and Pouliot it is still the weakness of the team imo.  Bonino didn't make a 2c and neither did his replacement, Sutter but Sutter is a different sort of player and a better fit for the team.  I think that Gagner was signed as insurance for the Sedin's retiring at the end of this season and he hasn't shown that he can stand in for more than a few games at centre.  I think that these second rate solutions are more symptomatic of not having assets available to trade or the promise to attract good free agents.

 

So while Benning did try to remain competitive in order to help develop younger players, it turned out that few of these players were ready yet for the NHL anyways.  The upshot is that the Canucks have been drafting much higher than expected and ironically, may just end up further ahead for not living up to ownerships expectations.  The thing is, that if the goals were achieved, draft picks may not have been as good and the renewal of the Canucks may have taken longer.  The question is then, can Aquilini get over this when he examines the strong prospect pool that Benning has brought together.  You can't always get what you want.  You get what you need.  

 

 

 

[Westcoasting]

Time to bring in a real GM like Mike Gillis! lol

[cory40]

If Aquillini let JB go kiss the rebuild goodbye and start cheering for Edmonton at least they will be 10 years ahead of stupid.

[Silky mitts]

21 hours ago, King Heffy said:

It's way too early to consider Jake and OJ misses as guys with their skillsets typically take longer to develop.  Jake's looking like he's starting to put it together and we should be able to play him with more skilled guys next year.  OJ and Sergachev were neck and neck for best defenseman available and were both definite candidates for the BPA given Tkachuk's character issues.  The pick wasn't off the board at all.  Juolevi looks like he could bring a Salo-like stability to the back end.  We need that going forward, especially if we move Tanev.

 

People were also whining about the Pettersson pick that's looking like a home-run too.

Jake looks nothing like a top draft pick should . OJ still is a good pick imo, but virtanen is a huge blunder when he was clearly the inferior player to who was available 

[HarryCanuck]

On 29/01/2018 at 8:38 PM, combover said:

Nope benning said in an interview  the sedins decision has an effect on whether he try’s to resign some of the vets like vanek or move him as well as some other deals.

you can call Gillis on his no trade clauses but before you do you might want to ask benning about those as well since he’s handed them out like candy too.

miller sutter vrbata eriksson im sure I’m missing some. 

Benning since he got here has tried his best to buy a playoff spot with ufa signings the team is getting top 6 picks even thou he’s had a blank check from the owners to do so. 

Now weather that’s what benning sold them when he was hired in which case he’s a miserable failure. Or it what the owners wanted and he said he could do it and it’s the owners fault for thinking expensive patches could buy playoffs and again it falls on jim for being unable to achieve that goal.

the team has spent to the cap and go after ufas every year he’s been here in order to finish last i just don’t buy that. 

 Benning strikes me as a salesman he tells you what you want to hear in order to get you to buy in the problem is like most salemen the follow through when things don’t work.

i don’t think he’s a terrible gm but I don’t think he’s anything special  either.

Either way resign replaced I won’t be upset. 

 

I comes down to what HE promised owners when he was hired and has he deliver on those promises nobody on here knows those facts.

 

 

 

 

Depending on where the Canucks are in the standings at the TD, I expect JB will be making some moves. However, I would prefer to have a GM who is engaged in the club longer term. 

 

In in terms of NTC’s, I think the Canucks are in the middle of the pack across the NHL. Some teams have more a few have less. You were discussing the Sedin’s handcuffing the Canucks, I believe they earned their contracts. Yes, he gave a bad NTC to Eriksson but overall his actions have been good when balancing new prospects and a demanding fan base. 

 

Benning will have options at the deadline and I expect we will net some future prospects as a result. 

[189lb enforcers?]

As of tonight, the Canucks and Canadiens are nearly identical in stats at 27 and 28th overall. 

 

JB shouldn’t be the only GM out there with a pitchfork aimed at his but. 

[oldnews]

On 1/28/2018 at 8:38 PM, kingofsurrey said:

Nicholas Jensen is leading his team in the KHL with goals and points..

 

Just sayin.....

what are you just sayin'?

 

that he couldn't make it in the NHL?

[spook007]

On 28/01/2018 at 11:38 PM, kingofsurrey said:

Nicholas Jensen is leading his team in the KHL with goals and points..

 

Just sayin.....

Wasn't Larsen Leading the KHL in goals as well before we got him?