Glug Datt Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 On 2018-09-25 at 12:11 AM, Apple Juice said: Drouin > Boeser and Horvat. Drouin's skill far outclasses Boeser's and Horvat's skills by two country miles. Sure, Boeser has the better shot and Horvat's got the better build and instincts defensively but Drouin outranks both Boeser and Horvat combined in terms of elite hockey awareness and the ability to generate offence. Maybe he didn't have the best of starts to his career but he sure as hell can bring it offensively. The guy put up back to back 100+ point seasons in junior, one with MacKinnon and one without so there's no denying his offensive skills and ability with the puck is far more dynamic than Boeser and Horvat may ever be. you know who else has great offensive skills...? Yakupov.. I'll take Bo or Brock over Drouin anyday.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 13 hours ago, the grinder said: I didn't paint that picture last night. we have bo and brock baer sutter and beagle and of course elias other than we have a a ton of bubble players and a few overpriced bums and im sure eddy the eagle would of served up some pizzas too last night , So you think these "friendlies" actually mirror the regular season? Okaaaaaaay then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Why do people lose sight of the process? All these young guys mentioned - Gadj, Palmu, Dahlen, Lind, Juolevi, MacEwen, Jasek, Di Pietro etc haven't had a full season in Utica yet. It is not just a case of some having played against men in Europe, they have no experience of the smaller ice against men, a totally different thing. They will need HARD seasoning and they will get that in Utica. We do have players on the cusp - Brisebois, Sautner, Demko, McEneny, Chatfield all look as if they might get a chance this season. These players are players who HAVE PLAYED a season in the AHL. None were high picks so we shouldn't be expecting too much? If they show up well in supporting roles we should consider them a success. Players like Boucher, Motte and Leipsic are players who have already been deemed surplus and often the reasons are pretty obvious. Boucher just doesn't work hard enough, Motte (who I like) is no better than Gaunce and probably over a season, worse. Leipsic has potential but like Booth exhibits the fatal career staller of "doesn't play well with others" That leaves us with Gaunce, Archi, Pouliot, Jake, Stecher, and Hutton. Gaunce is strong defensively but needs to be more productive - hopefully this will come this season, if not JB can say he was not one of his picks Archi is a physical player who has some production but is lacking consistency, hopefully that too will emerge this season. Pouliot at first sight seems to be well equipped for the NHL but for me is a Clendening type of player - too many lack of concentration/bad choice plays makes him a virtual liability anytime he is on the ice imo. First candidate for waivers/trade along with his senior "mini me" MDZ. Jake is under performing, there is no doubt about it. However he is still young. That said he must decide whether he wants to waste half a shift watching what is going on or decide to be involved every second he is on the ice - that is the only way he will improve. He should not really be having stamina issues at his age and considering how little he does do we assume it is a mental/IQ issue? This season will be a big season for him and I would like to see him take his undoubted talents and run with them - till he drops. Some classier line mates wouldn't do him any harm either. Stecher imo is the easiest to appraise and forecast. He has a tireless engine and the heart of a lion, I have no doubt he will take another step up this season. Hutton has a lot going for him if he is fit - and he looks fit. What he needs to do now, is drive his game forward, play the man much more to avoid getting mugged (see Biega) and be more aware of his surroundings. I think we will see a much improved Hutton this season. The rest of the team, if fit, imo will do the heavy lifting - including EP. The new guys have a lot to prove, I like Roussel and Beagle but remain to be convinced by Schaller (he is not the type of player I would see Boston normally letting go) Loui and Sam if fit, I'm sure will pull their weight, some fans on here are just not prepared either to see the work they put in or even give them a chance. That imo is more a reflection on them not understanding the game, where many think, if you are not scoring or knocking people out/over you are not on the ice. So what I'm saying is we have had a pre-season of hysterically high expectations and absurd predictions by many on here who seem unable to analyse the "process" Of course we have some great young prospects but until they get some Utica time under their belts there is no way they are crashing into this team and making waves. We are not at that stage in the rebuild yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 6 hours ago, Glug Datt said: you know who else has great offensive skills...? Yakupov.. I'll take Bo or Brock over Drouin anyday.. One is a clutch battle ready Captain (really who else) and leader that goes to into the crease and corners, the other is a very skilled player, somewhat individually focused player that has already been traded away from the team that drafted him, while the other is being picked to lead the team that drafted him. I know now who I would want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 9 hours ago, wai_lai416 said: it's not no sh*t it's we raved about how great his drafting ability and his ability to assess talent. so far in virtanen's career and this preseason hasn't shown he's gonna break out.. considering where he was drafted he needs to be more than a bottom 6 player.. Mccann he gave up on after 1 season to bring back gudbranson which imo was overpayment for a pylon that's big can hit but that's about it. he passed on Tkatchuk who at the very least is out scoring our entire team minus maybe horvat and boeser for Juolevi who doens't look like he's gonna make the team out of camp despite how terrible our defense is... of his 6 first round picks.. Virtanen, McCann, Boeser, Juolevi, Pettersen, Hughes.. so far Boeser and Pettersen looks for real.. Virtanen looks like he's following the path of Kassian, McCann gone from the organization, Juolevi is still a big question mark. Hughes hopefully can bulk up a little and QB our PP in the future.. that's 3 for 6.. 50% draft record for 1st round picks and mostly high first rounders seems awfully terrible for a draft guru. Wall of ranting text... Do you have a point or are so stuck in 2014 that you can’t see beyond it. I guess that time machine idea idea didn’t work for you. JB had two weeks with the pre existing scouting staff in Vancouver. Not ideal and past that draft he has taken major steps to overhaul the whole scouting department. Since the overhaul: 2015, Boeser at 23rd, wonder if some teams wish they hadn’t past one him... Gaudette in the 5th round. 2016 OJ the skinny kid has grown, the skill is there, small bump this off season DUE TO INJURY, but he is already the most skilled defender currently on the roster. Teams biggest need, big hole will be filled. EP40... wonder if some teams would want a do over, he is outstanding and is the smartest player I have ever seen in Canuck colours. Added to that Gads, Lind and Dipeitro... not to bad. Hughes and Woo... two top 4 d men. Defence will be fixed from the draft, the right way. Could you do better than those picks? Virtannen will become a fan favourite, he just needed time. Spots and openings will happen as injuries will always occur and I will expect him to stick once he gets that opening. Guddy for McCann. Okay I would definitely prefer Pastrnak, so would every other team in the draft. He would be 1st overall in the re draft IMO. But JB is the goat and not the other teams ahead of him. Get over it snowflake. It’s done and complaining about it is relevant as reliving the ‘77 Draft when we took Jere ‘never heard of him’ Gillis instead of the greatest goal scorer to ever play the game, Mike Bossy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davathor Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 We have a brutal top 6. Boeser and Horvat are our only legit guys there. Baer is a borderline 2nd liner with talented linemates, Gagner is done, Erikssons the worst contract on the team, Virt hasn't stepped up, Peterssons untested, Sutters a shutdown 3rd liner... It's not good boys. Enjoy the youth movement because we won't enjoy the win/loss column this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Just now, Davathor said: We have a brutal top 6. Boeser and Horvat are our only legit guys there. Baer is a borderline 2nd liner with talented linemates, Gagner is done, Erikssons the worst contract on the team, Virt hasn't stepped up, Peterssons untested, Sutters a shutdown 3rd liner... It's not good boys. Enjoy the youth movement because we won't enjoy the win/loss column this year. What does anyone expect. This season will separate the true fans from the bandwagoneers that like to cheer for winners. Not saying your not not a fan, just that this team is basically transitioning from the old to new and it ‘is a process’. We are after two things this season IMO, developing our youth and enjoying that, and getting the best possible draft position. As long as the team puts up a fight and the effort is there on the ice, fans should support them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granpappy Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 they forgot about jack hughes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 On 2018-09-25 at 8:50 AM, martybyrd said: Our forwards are ranked 2nd last Our D would be fortunate to only be 2nd last Our Goal tending is likely dead last Yet...5 years in, people in these forums keep heaping praises on Jim Benning. I don't see it....every line up we've faced this preseason has looked bigger, faster, stronger and more talented. The cupboard was bare argument gets old...these are basically all his players now. How many impactful NHL players has he added to our team in 5 years ? 2 out of 4 1st rounders look to impact players... 2 other Top 6 picks ...not so much. All these great later round selections ?? I go back and look at the pages and pages on these great trades.. UFA signings ?? Yikes Since taking over (basically the Jake Virtanen draft summer)...look at all the great young players who have entered the league. Look at all the top NHL players that have changed sweaters... Where are ours ? Am I missing something you all see ? What would you have done that wasn’t. Sign more free agents, trade the twins? Sure, take Pastrnak instead of McCann. So would everyone. Is JB building the team thru the draft? Yes. Has he found some great talent, yes, beyond the 1st round, yes. Do you expect guys drafted to have an impact while they are Junior eligible in the NHL, cause that is unrealistic. This team was left bereft of young talent by the previous management (for good reason). Gillis rolled the dice and went all in on winning a Cup. We didn’t get there, but no one was upset then, that our prospect pool was pathetic. But it was, and now after the party we have to start over. Unfortunately that takes time to re build. 17 and 18 year olds aren’t going to sweep in and save the franchise. They will when they hit 21-23 years old. The top spots in the line up are up are up for grabs. If you are a Canucks prospect right now, this is your time to win a NHL job and fulfill your dreams. That should bring inspirational play. That’s what I want to see, don’t care at all about the win lose record this year. Any fan should understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 4 hours ago, Phat Fingers said: What does anyone expect. This season will separate the true fans from the bandwagoneers that like to cheer for winners. Not saying your not not a fan, just that this team is basically transitioning from the old to new and it ‘is a process’. We are after two things this season IMO, developing our youth and enjoying that, and getting the best possible draft position. As long as the team puts up a fight and the effort is there on the ice, fans should support them. I really don't know what people are expecting... Were we good team last year? Are the goalies the same as last year? Is the D the same as last year? Did we lose 2 (albeit diminished) hall of fame forwards in the summer? This is part of the rebuild folks. We'll likely be a bit faster and grittier based on the changes over the summer but people are kidding themselves if they think that even treading water in the standings is a given or will be 'easy'. Rebuild. Patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kootenay Gold Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 3 hours ago, aGENT said: Rebuild. Patience. LOL I agree but on CDC.... good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the grinder Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 11 hours ago, alfstonker said: So you think these "friendlies" actually mirror the regular season? Okaaaaaaay then. mirrors? yes it a pretty good indication of where the team is , cant stop the puck , running around the defensive side of the ice , cant make a pass , trouble getting the puck the out of the zone trouble entering the zone and since we are basically the same team as last year minus the sedins you think we are gonna be better this year? improve on points? / Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Didn't the Canuck forwards get schooled by Edmonton's, Calgary's and essentially LA's prospect pools? This is the first year of 3 or 4 rebuilding, IF there is a desire to speed up the process the team should be busy all season in the trade market. Some posters have been aware of just how much this team has not been prepared for the Sedin's retirement. This next few years, 2 anyway, are going to be very difficult. If luck is with the Canucks there will be a labour dispute so the team can get a fresh start afterwards without carrying the weight of 5/6 losing seasons on their backs. I am concerned that the players get used to being professionals with all the losing they have had and will have. It didn't take Edmonton, Arizona and Buffalo's players long to play while waiting for the other shoe to drop. Right now the team has many players that are just happy to be in the NHL, some have been paid handsomely to be on a losing team. As far as prospects go, this team has been the 2nd worst team in the league over the last 3 years and have now had 5 years of drafting by the scouting/drafting guru. They have had more top 10 picks than any other management group. For all of that they have 3 draft picks out of a possible 35 on the team. The team's prospects are ranked very high but couldn't score goals or win games vs others team's prospects. Remember all the hype around OJ, he was what this team needed, he might be able to step right into the NHL, he was the future PP Qback, a sure thing he just needed another year in junior, another year in Europe, another year in the AHL. Many posters were up in arms when he was selected instead Tkachuk, of course those posters know nothing about hockey and what makes it even worse is that 3 of the 4 defencemen taken after him are playing and making impacts while there is doubt OJ will even make it now after this preseason's performance. So the error isn't simply a bad decision to not take the BPA selection it is compounded by not even selecting the best dman available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 12 hours ago, alfstonker said: So you think these "friendlies" actually mirror the regular season? Okaaaaaaay then. Clearly established NHLer's are taking it easy as Ekblad said, they are just out for a skate. 16 minutes ago, the grinder said: mirrors? yes it a pretty good indication of where the team is , cant stop the puck , running around the defensive side of the ice , cant make a pass , trouble getting the puck the out of the zone trouble entering the zone and since we are basically the same team as last year minus the sedins you think we are gonna be better this year? improve on points? / With the dmen frantically trying to add to the offence the attacks are chaos, some players don't appear to play a position at all, just a spot to lineup for a face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 12 hours ago, alfstonker said: Why do people lose sight of the process? All these young guys mentioned - Gadj, Palmu, Dahlen, Lind, Juolevi, MacEwen, Jasek, Di Pietro etc haven't had a full season in Utica yet. It is not just a case of some having played against men in Europe, they have no experience of the smaller ice against men, a totally different thing. They will need HARD seasoning and they will get that in Utica. We do have players on the cusp - Brisebois, Sautner, Demko, McEneny, Chatfield all look as if they might get a chance this season. These players are players who HAVE PLAYED a season in the AHL. None were high picks so we shouldn't be expecting too much? If they show up well in supporting roles we should consider them a success. Players like Boucher, Motte and Leipsic are players who have already been deemed surplus and often the reasons are pretty obvious. Boucher just doesn't work hard enough, Motte (who I like) is no better than Gaunce and probably over a season, worse. Leipsic has potential but like Booth exhibits the fatal career staller of "doesn't play well with others" That leaves us with Gaunce, Archi, Pouliot, Jake, Stecher, and Hutton. Gaunce is strong defensively but needs to be more productive - hopefully this will come this season, if not JB can say he was not one of his picks Archi is a physical player who has some production but is lacking consistency, hopefully that too will emerge this season. Pouliot at first sight seems to be well equipped for the NHL but for me is a Clendening type of player - too many lack of concentration/bad choice plays makes him a virtual liability anytime he is on the ice imo. First candidate for waivers/trade along with his senior "mini me" MDZ. Jake is under performing, there is no doubt about it. However he is still young. That said he must decide whether he wants to waste half a shift watching what is going on or decide to be involved every second he is on the ice - that is the only way he will improve. He should not really be having stamina issues at his age and considering how little he does do we assume it is a mental/IQ issue? This season will be a big season for him and I would like to see him take his undoubted talents and run with them - till he drops. Some classier line mates wouldn't do him any harm either. Stecher imo is the easiest to appraise and forecast. He has a tireless engine and the heart of a lion, I have no doubt he will take another step up this season. Hutton has a lot going for him if he is fit - and he looks fit. What he needs to do now, is drive his game forward, play the man much more to avoid getting mugged (see Biega) and be more aware of his surroundings. I think we will see a much improved Hutton this season. The rest of the team, if fit, imo will do the heavy lifting - including EP. The new guys have a lot to prove, I like Roussel and Beagle but remain to be convinced by Schaller (he is not the type of player I would see Boston normally letting go) Loui and Sam if fit, I'm sure will pull their weight, some fans on here are just not prepared either to see the work they put in or even give them a chance. That imo is more a reflection on them not understanding the game, where many think, if you are not scoring or knocking people out/over you are not on the ice. So what I'm saying is we have had a pre-season of hysterically high expectations and absurd predictions by many on here who seem unable to analyse the "process" Of course we have some great young prospects but until they get some Utica time under their belts there is no way they are crashing into this team and making waves. We are not at that stage in the rebuild yet. Boston has Donato and DeBrusk coming in, Schaller although well liked was passed on for younger cheaper guys with more upside. Our team toughness went from wimpy to not bad with those three guys, and worth every penny to not have to worry about EP and Boeser getting injured by a cheap shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirotashi Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 20 hours ago, magicman12 said: Top 15? Pass the joint this way I need some of that optimism. You know what why not? Its based on a lot of ifs and maybes but this entire thread is based on speculation. Imagine if at the beginning of last year we had a thread guessing the position of the teams in the end and I said vegas finished where they did people would say im crazy too. So if... Boeser can improve and Horvat continues to grow and Goldobin steps up his game and maybe Gaudette comes up and catches fire.. yeah I can see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogersTowell Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Things are never as good or as bad as pre-season indicates. We should have an idea of what we have 10 games into the season, although tweaking of the system, how each player is working and injuries sustained may change that. Last year Vegas almost went all the way and the best they had before the season started was a semi-washed up starting goalie who luckily returned to his past glory as the season progressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 The last three to five seasons, when we've said "it's only pre-season" in such a discounting way to disregard people's opinions and what they see, I have to ask ... was the regular season any better? I'm not trying to be negative here. I don't think I'm alone in thinking some of our prospects would produce more than they have this pre-season ... especially with so much competition and hype. I mean, the league pre-season scoring Top 10 -15 is filled with prospects putting up points to make their teams. I think the "it's only pre-season" thing may be a bit more telling and surprising about the regular season than some expected. I hope I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 13 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said: This is the first year of 3 or 4 rebuilding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 7 hours ago, Baggins said: Ya, I agree it will take longer with this group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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