The TDL Benning Complaint Thread Department

[aGENT]

10 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

The one thing is, at the end of the season (assuming Benning's around) he needs to clearly layout for this market what the plan is.

 

Jpat made a good comment today about how Bennings been saying lately that they have a plan, & yet we arent really sure what the plan is. I havent been totally what exactly the plan has been from the beginning. 

The only person Benning owes a 'clearly laid out plan' to, is Aqualini.

[aGENT]

13 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

However is it not fair to question how secure Bennings job is as we wrap up another bottom 10 finish. 

Where was the team expected to finish this year? 

[oldnews]

11 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Jpat made a good comment today about how Bennings been saying lately that they have a plan, & yet we arent really sure what the plan is.

What part does "JPat" the asshat not understand?

[Alflives]

49 minutes ago, oldnews said:

If I were the Canucks media relations person, they wouldn't set foot in the building.  They'd never get into a presser.  And they wouldn't get a word of a source out of the organization.

 

And I suspect/sense that on a certain level, they're getting iced by Benning et al.

 

As for CDC, the Province b-otches get parroted here all the time by willing spam consumers - not much that can be done about that aside from calling it what it is.

 

 

 

 

I rather like Spam.  I hear there's a lot of cat meat in it!  

If JB can win a draft lotto, and get us Jack to go with Quinn, then sign EK July 1st, I think we will be a top team really soon.  The pieces are coming together.

Goalie looks great

D, with EK, Quinn, OJ, Stecher, and Hutton looks good too

Centers with Petey, Bo, Gaudette, and Beagle is great!

Wingers with Brock, Jack Hughes, Jake, Madden, etc looks solid too.

As with any successful rebuild, we need one great UFA signing, and luck at that stupid (rigged) draft lotto.  I think JB's made good trades to raise the level of our bottom six forwards already.    

 

 

[oldnews]

8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I rather like Spam.  I hear there's a lot of cat meat in it!  

 

I think that's textured tofu, Alf.

[riffraff]

42 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Where was the team expected to finish this year? 

I admit I have been less committed to cdc lately lol....mainly in part due to the:

 

this team is dead last again

fire green

hire quenville

blah blah blah

 

the posts here lately are the equivalent of head vs brick wall.

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, riffraff said:

I admit I have been less committed to cdc lately lol....mainly in part due to the:

 

this team is dead last again

fire green

hire quenville

blah blah blah

 

the posts here lately are the equivalent of head vs brick wall.

Nobody likes losing. I get it.

 

But I mean realistically this was always penciled in as another rebuild year pending stars and planets completely aligning.

 

We got to see the reigns handed over to the kids and not only not see the bottom completely fall out, as many feared ('Who's going to score if the twins retire!' ), but a faster, actually entertaining, hardworking and somewhat competitive team... when healthy.

 

Now we keep on trucking along with the rebuild as planned. There shouldn't be the massive hysteria and hand wringing IMO....

 

 

[spook007]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

The only person Benning owes a 'clearly laid out plan' to, is Aqualini.

This... 100%

 

It up to fans to vote with their feet if they are unhappy, but Benning owe nobody an explanation except his boss...

[TheGuardian_]

12 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

So thats the one thing Id like at the end of the season, for Benning to come & articulate what the plan is exactly, how they plan to act on it, and what they think the timeline is.

Stating such a plan will not influence other GM's or make trades difficult, any GM can see the pressure is on in Vancouver, 4 years of missing the playoff and 5 out of 6 years, well it is Edmonton like because at this point, with the team needing so much still, other GM's will pressure to win trades. The Canucks have just let their assets age out and haven't got enough or anything in return. After 5 years this is still mostly a Gillis team, at least the important players, Hutton, Tanev, Edler, Horvat, Markstrom...this team collapses if missing any two.

Every GM in the league knows that Vancouver needs draft picks and many "A" quality prospects and because of the team's perennial position in the standings not many player have asset value.

All this losing now has the fan base thinking about trading Horvat or Boeser, a thought unheard of two months ago, but in truth these two might get superior returns if traded to the right teams, Minny would be willing to give up their #1 for Boeser, I dare say there are many teams that would even a team like Colorado might give up the #1 overall for Horvat or Boeser although I would not trade for this year's #1 overall, next year's, 2020 is the one and a much deeper draft.

 

IF Horvat were traded for a top 3 pick, Canucks retain their own and get a "A" prospect that might be a good deal.

IF Boeser were traded for a top 3 pick, Again the team keeps their 1rst round pick and gets a "A" prospect, maybe a deal for a Dman "A" prospect.

 

That would likely give the Canucks 4 picks in the top 5 to 7 in two years, it should be expected that these players, at least half, could make the team the next year and the rest the following year. Possible 2019 picks - Podkolzin/Cozens/Dach/Hughes/Kakko, 2020 possible picks - Quinton Byfield/Alexis Lafrenière/Anton Lundell/others that are starting to trend in the media.

 

Why would any team do deals like this, time, their window is opening or closing, cap hits and ceiling. Add Boeser to Buffalo and how much better are they? Horvat to Edmonton or Colorado and their impact is magnified by their youth.

 

The Canuck will be not a good team for another year and maybe the CBA season but all the draft picks should be available and effective the following season.

 

All this hope about signing Panarin, Duchene, Karlsson, or half these other top FA's is silly for this July 1, do the signing on July 1, 2020. Conserve the cap space and use it to get extra picks, the salary cap will add to other teams pressured to include Vancouver in three way deals that add picks. 

 

Attracting and signing some really good FA Dmen on July 1, 2020 could be accomplished with the signing bonus, which is paid prior to the season start or any stoppages that might occur, some teams just don't have the money to do so or owners willing to spend money, that is not Vancouver's problem. FA/RFA Dmen might be available -

[TheRealistOptimist]

3 hours ago, canucksnihilist said:

Ya...

 

2 of the last years FA are busts.  Shaller is usually a scratch.  Beagle terrible on 4th line - outscored 2 to 1 when he is on the ice.   And we have 3 more years ofthose 2 players... ugh...,Really the FA signings are a joke.  No impact pkayers.  Year before a joke with Gagner.  Eriksson a joke.  Problem with bringing in someone who isn't ready to be a GM

 

no hits with any trades...  not any impact players.

 

im wondering if anyone could have drafted as well as JB with all the top picks.

 

im starting to think JB might get canned.  It might be time for a fresh approach...  Probably he has learned from his mistakes but usually GMs dont get the luxury of time...

 

 

unfortunately there are a lot more fans that think like you. 

 

Impact, impact, impact...

 

most teams core players and impact players were built through their own drafting and that takes time when your cupboards were empty.

 

Only once you are close to a finished product and have had years of good drafting, do you generally have the assets to trade for impact players or have a good enough team to sign big name, impact UFAs.

 

JB had very little to work with when he got here and a lot of fans have very little patience. It was a match made in heaven from the start  

 

Ps. TB, Toronto, Boston, Pittsburgh, SJ, Winnipeg, Calgary, Washington, these are pretty much all of the legit contenders for the Cup and most of their impact players were drafted and developed. This is why you need patience.

[Smashian Kassian]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

Where was the team expected to finish this year? 

And where are we expected to finish next year?

 

Benning & Linden were asked last year, 4 years in, when things might turn around & they didnt even have an answer.

 

How many more years is it going to be. 

[Smashian Kassian]

3 hours ago, aGENT said:

The only person Benning owes a 'clearly laid out plan' to, is Aqualini.

Yes. And thats fine. But they are going to have to have a message for the market. Its been one of the least successful stretches in franchise history. 

[aGENT]

10 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

And where are we expected to finish next year?

Probably slightly higher (depending on summer trades/lotto/draft/trades/UFA's and how next year goes, players grow, injuries etc).

 

If you're asking my opinion, I'd say something closer to resembling a 'legit' bubble team rather than the pretender one we were this year.

 

14 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Benning & Linden were asked last year, 4 years in, when things might turn around & they didnt even have an answer.

Why would they? They no more have a crystal ball than any other person. We could be looking great with Hughes making a major contribution next year...and 30 games in he crashes awkwardly in the boards and breaks his leg in three places. Best laid plans and all that...

 

There's no guarantees in sports.

 

And even if they have a rough estimate in their heads... do you expect them to come out and tell everyone, including the players presently on the team: 'Three more years everybody. Don't worry about showing up to games for the next few years (fans and players included) as we won't be winning anything.' 

 

Like honestly, what do people expect them to say beyond the 'Patient, long term no quick fixes' they've already been saying?

 

 

[aGENT]

56 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Yes. And thats fine. But they are going to have to have a message for the market. Its been one of the least successful stretches in franchise history. 

Yeah, that's gonna happen during a rebuild.

 

Honestly, what the hell were people expecting? People kept answering polls etc that they were 'ready for a rebuild', well we're getting one. Rebuilding teams seldom win cups/make the playoffs. And yes, it usually lasts 5-7 years before you start to see more realistic, consistent playoff capable teams.

 

And that's if things go well (hello Edmonton!).

 

Seriously, WTF did you people expect here?! 

[riffraff]

3 hours ago, aGENT said:

Nobody likes losing. I get it.

 

But I mean realistically this was always penciled in as another rebuild year pending stars and planets completely aligning.

 

We got to see the reigns handed over to the kids and not only not see the bottom completely fall out, as many feared ('Who's going to score if the twins retire!' ), but a faster, actually entertaining, hardworking and somewhat competitive team... when healthy.

 

Now we keep on trucking along with the rebuild as planned. There shouldn't be the massive hysteria and hand wringing IMO....

 

 

Totally.

 

up until literally a month ago.  The team was exactly as you described. 

 

Imo the keys are more offensive support for horvat which doesn’t mean sutter in the lineup as the defensive center necessarily. Personally I don’t see him as dependable and I think Benning needs to come from a difference angle and find another linemate for bo. If sutter remains healthy next year then that’s gravy.

 

defense basically needs the most work.  I think a ufa signing could make sense.  It wouldn’t have been my first choice but with the setback to juolevi I really think we need some offensive legitimacy from the back end for next year.  Again, relying on Hughes and assuming juolevi plays is too much gamble and I don’t think most fans will accept it.

[Boudrias]

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

I rather like Spam.  I hear there's a lot of cat meat in it!  

If JB can win a draft lotto, and get us Jack to go with Quinn, then sign EK July 1st, I think we will be a top team really soon.  The pieces are coming together.

Goalie looks great

D, with EK, Quinn, OJ, Stecher, and Hutton looks good too

Centers with Petey, Bo, Gaudette, and Beagle is great!

Wingers with Brock, Jack Hughes, Jake, Madden, etc looks solid too.

As with any successful rebuild, we need one great UFA signing, and luck at that stupid (rigged) draft lotto.  I think JB's made good trades to raise the level of our bottom six forwards already.    

 

 

I am over in Maui. Last time there was a 'big wave' warning the grocery stores were cleaned out of SPAM. So there you go Alf, people will swallow anything!  

 

[spur1]

I swear I’m going to puke the next time I see or hear someone say to sign EK. He is the last guy we should sign. Yes he is a good player but no longer a great one. He will be way overpaid. He is already too old for this core. 

If we sign him it will be a long term contract that we will curse down the road. 

[canucksnihilist]

6 hours ago, oldnews said:

Schaller is a disappointment, but your facts are bent - he has one year remaining.

 

Your take on Beagle is even more bent though. 

The guy gets 81.3% defensive zone starts, wins 54.9% of his faceoffs, is a mere -7 (cool story about getting outscored 2 to 1 though).

You clearly don't get the value of a shutdown forward - and Beagle is a hell of a good one.

“You dont get”...  can we have a conversation about facts without getting personal?  I know pushing buttons is fun... but come on...

 

beagle:  lets debate.  Another stat is 2:1 goals against:for when he is on the ice.  Maybe that stat doesnt mean anything based on his minutes?  It seems to.... but what do you think?

[canucksnihilist]

4 hours ago, TheRealistOptimist said:

unfortunately there are a lot more fans that think like you. 

 

Impact, impact, impact...

 

most teams core players and impact players were built through their own drafting and that takes time when your cupboards were empty.

 

Only once you are close to a finished product and have had years of good drafting, do you generally have the assets to trade for impact players or have a good enough team to sign big name, impact UFAs.

 

JB had very little to work with when he got here and a lot of fans have very little patience. It was a match made in heaven from the start  

 

Ps. TB, Toronto, Boston, Pittsburgh, SJ, Winnipeg, Calgary, Washington, these are pretty much all of the legit contenders for the Cup and most of their impact players were drafted and developed. This is why you need patience.

Look i dont want him to get canned.  He had a very difficult starting position.  Its not fair but losing eventually means getting fired.

 

I think he is competent GM and a great drafter.  But trades and FA arent his strength - they dont have to be.  But would sure help him avoid getting canned....

[Smashian Kassian]

4 hours ago, aGENT said:

Probably slightly higher (depending on summer trades/lotto/draft/trades/UFA's and how next year goes, players grow, injuries etc).

 

If you're asking my opinion, I'd say something closer to resembling a 'legit' bubble team rather than the pretender one we were this year.

 

Why would they? They no more have a crystal ball than any other person. We could be looking great with Hughes making a major contribution next year...and 30 games in he crashes awkwardly in the boards and breaks his leg in three places. Best laid plans and all that...

 

There's no guarantees in sports.

 

And even if they have a rough estimate in their heads... do you expect them to come out and tell everyone, including the players presently on the team: 'Three more years everybody. Don't worry about showing up to games for the next few years (fans and players included) as we won't be winning anything.' 

 

Like honestly, what do people expect them to say beyond the 'Patient, long term no quick fixes' they've already been saying?

 

 

Except they've done exactly that. They've tried every quick fix. 

 

How can you say its been about patience & no quick fixes the entire time, when its literially taken the draft being in Vancouver for them to decide that holding onto draft picks is a good idea.

 

The last 4 years combined we've been the worst team in the NHL. And we've had less than the allotted 7 draft picks per year. Name another rebuild that has had less than the allotted 7 picks per season over the course of the process. 

 

I think very highly of Quinn Hughes but hoping he's the guy next year that vaults us to the playoffs is optimistic to say the least. It'll take more work on our backend, and honestly when your leaning on Edler/Tanev who are always injured to be the backbone of it, that's not a good plan IMO.

 

And that's not even getting into how much we are lacking on the wings. 

 

 

3 hours ago, aGENT said:

Yeah, that's gonna happen during a rebuild.

 

Honestly, what the hell were people expecting? People kept answering polls etc that they were 'ready for a rebuild', well we're getting one. Rebuilding teams seldom win cups/make the playoffs. And yes, it usually lasts 5-7 years before you start to see more realistic, consistent playoff capable teams.

 

And that's if things go well (hello Edmonton!).

 

Seriously, WTF did you people expect here?! 

No. It hasn't been a rebuild the entire time. Benning said at the beginning that he thought they could turn things around quickly. The goal was to make the playoffs.

 

The message at the beginning was the team will turn around quickly. After they missed playoffs in the 2nd year, they tried to get back to being a playoff team through trade/free agency. Which led to Eriksson, Gudbranson & almost trading our #5 pick as part of a PK Subban trade. Those are not rebuilding moves. 

 

Its only after that all failed & they had no more expendable assets, that they fully accepted the rebuild.

 

They've spent assets for nothing. They've let their assets age & devalue, for nothing. The asset management hasn't been great at all. And on the pro-side their work has been mostly bad with trades & free agency.

 

This is why I bring up a plan & a timeline. They have a good core but the team is still far away, and the problem is they don't have a boatload of assets.

 

They are going to have to hit a home run this summer through trade (if they even can), or else free agency. And if they do go swinging again in free agency like we all expect, they can't sign another anchor like Eriksson or buy high on 4th line players like Beagle & Schaller.