Nikita Tryamkin said he watched the Canucks game last night.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, canuckistani said:

Not exactly condoning the whole 'go home if you dont like it' mentality, but its comparing apples to oranges. Theo Fleury didn't have an option if he didnt like his coach. Russian players have the option to GTFO to KHL if they don't like it here. So he did. We dont know what Fleury would've done if he could've bolted to another league on his own volition without wrecking his career.

but willie wasn't a dick to him, he was tryng to help him.  As @oldnews said, the video was to show him a successful dman with size and his ice time was capped because he wasn't in good condition the entire season.

 

I'm no fan of Willie, but he doesn't deserve the scorn on this one, imo.  It's 100% on Tryamkin

[canuckistani]

Just now, oldnews said:

and not only a language barrier, but also coming from large ice to small, and a NA game that is somewhat distinct from the European game and not necessarily easy to translate.

 

I think it's pretty common practice to show players videos of their (usually more developed comparables - and even a fair sample of public comments made by players to that effect - ie I also recall Ryan Ellis has spoken publicly about being shown video of other smaller stature defensemen to help him develop his defensive game as an 'undersized' defenseman (I don't recall who the exact examples he was to emulate, but effective, smaller defensemen.  I guess David Poile et al are also idiots (idiots that just happen to perenially re-produce one of the best bluelines in the NHL...)

Someone should tell Aqua-man that we are one elite winger and stealing Nashville's defense coach & recruiters away from beating the Oiler's dynasty....

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Xbox said:

His main reason for leaving was family. Having a crappy coach certainly didn't help. Him watching the Canucks game last night is a great sign. I'd welcome him back in a heartbeat.

as would I

[JM_]

50 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I'm not sure why people believe there is something wrong with showing a player like Tryamking video of a prototypical hard-to-play-against defenseman.

Pronger wasn't really a "tough guy" in any event - I'm virtually certain that was not the point of it - he was a player that pushed the boundaries of stick work, interference - whatever he could get away with - but when it came to fighting, meh, he may have fought once or twice a year in his career.

The point was his length, size, disposition - and the way he used that, and his stick (in a time when it was far less policed) to deter people from going to and parking in front of his net.

I have no problem whatsoever with the team showing Tryamkin video of a player they think used his tools in ways that Tryamkin could learn from.

It's something every player in the NHL is going to experience - video - of themselves and other players - to help them improve.

Pretty sure one of Gudbranson's recent comments referred to being shown that he can utilize his stick more to complement his ability to contain players.  I really have to doubt that this was any part of the problem for Tryamkin.

 

In the end, here's how I see the Tryamkin season:

- did not show up in sufficient condition - did not like it but nevertheless engaged seriously in getting into NHL game shape.  Whatever - growing pains.

- played very well once he did earn his way into the lineup - however conditioning remained an issue throughout the entire season -  he simply could not sustain his pace for long shifts and throughout the game - a large  part of why WD capped his ice time.   Reality was that he was highly effective in short, limited shifts but beyond, not so much.  Whatever, more growing pains, but like the original issue, not really a case where the player has grounds to dispute/protest a lack of ice time.

- didn't speak the language, newlywed, family wanted him to return home including his wife... made an understandable decision that he'd return to the KHL - and apparently pretty much from the get-go left open the possibility, even probability that he'd give the NHL another shot in due course.

- appears to be having some very good seasons in the KHL - and certainly a more developed, conditioned Tryamkin is a player that easily earns a spot on virtually any NHL team.

 

All water under the bridge - none of it a particularly big deal - nnone of it coinciding with a particularly important window (if anything it may serve the team in the end) and absolutely welcome back.

interesting, I remember Pronger being one of the most feared physical d of this time. If that was the message Nik took from the video's I think its very understandable that he decided to take a break from Willie. I don't have the quote at hand but do recall that video session being mentioned in one of Niks interviews once he left. I think Willie mismanaged the situation but I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree as it matters little now.

 

And as you point out there were a lot of other reasons as well. 

 

But there's a new window now if he does want an NHL career. 

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

interesting, I remember Pronger being one of the most feared physical d of this time. If that was the message Nik took from the video's I think its very understandable that he decided to take a break from Willie. I don't have the quote at hand but do recall that video session being mentioned in one of Niks interviews once he left. I think Willie mismanaged the situation but I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree as it matters little now.

 

And as you point out there were a lot of other reasons as well. 

 

But there's a new window now if he does want an NHL career. 

most feared, but also one of the greatest defenders of all time.  Because big players are slower of foot, they need fear to keep opposing players honest.

[oldnews]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

interesting, I remember Pronger being one of the most feared physical d of this time. If that was the message Nik took from the video's I think its very understandable that he decided to take a break from Willie. I don't have the quote at hand but do recall that video session being mentioned in one of Niks interviews once he left. I think Willie mismanaged the situation but I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree as it matters little now.

 

And as you point out there were a lot of other reasons as well. 

 

But there's a new window now if he does want an NHL career. 

yeah, but most of that had to do with the liberties Pronger took - he had a vicious stick and he was certainly physical, but very little of it had to do with being a "tough guy" - like I said, he didn't actually fight very often, particularly for that era (once or twice a year in the 1990s would not make him a relative "tough guy").

 

 He was dirty, he was mean, he wasn't above cheap shots or impaling people with his stick - but I think the point was probably more to the effect of "here's how one of the most dominant big defensmen in the game utilized his size and strength to relatively neutralize opponents without necessarily punching them in the face.  Of course, Pronger would need to seriously reel in his game/antics today, but there was a lot more to his game than simply a tough guy element - lots to see there for a rookie NHL developing his own game - and one that wouldn't necessarily have grown up watching the north american game.

[CanuckinEdm]

17 minutes ago, oldnews said:

This is such an uninformed comment wadr.

 

The USHL is a good  league - producing a lot of good players (ie close to home = Brock Boeser) - with every team in that league made up of principally 18, 19, 20 year olds, while the USNDT team is a group of under 17yr olds - 17 as the year progresses, playing against teams that are 2 and 3 years older than them.  Calling them an "all-star" team and suggesting it's weak competition is highly misleading, as is the fact that most of them are simply too young to attend college.

To spell that out - you have to be 17 yrs of age to attend college in the U.S. - while Hughes is playing for an under 17 team - and increasing more players are being drafted out of the USHL.

Sorry i meant Jr A (BCHL, AJHL, ect) but its still Jr A and i would say below the quality of the BCHL and maybe the AJHL, Its used for american born players to keep college eligibility. I don't care what you say about the USNDT team is an allstar team, they select the best U17 players from around the country and (almost positive) are not subject to the USHL draft. Jr. A is also pretty much a 17/18 under league because anyone that is going to make something of their hockey career has committed to a college (leaving at 18) but there is the odd exception.  

[canuckistani]

Just now, stawns said:

but willie wasn't a dick to him, he was tryng to help him.  As @oldnews said, the video was to show him a successful dman with size and his ice time was capped because he wasn't in good condition the entire season.

 

I'm no fan of Willie, but he doesn't deserve the scorn on this one, imo.  It's 100% on Tryamkin

i am not pouring kerosine on Willie's effigy and lighting it on fire, if you noticed. 

 

I fully agree that Tryamkin had to sit out the first two months because he showed up out of condition and not fit to play in the NHL after his summer wedding. No biggie, its a legit excuse IMO. People like him plan on getting married only once and when you are young, tick off one of THE biggest boxes in life, you are entitled to party it up a bit. It had consequences, which he paid for as well.

 

I am not sure though, that showing Pronger was a smart move to Tryamkin in the first place. Pronger isn't just any big tough defenseman, he is the dirtiest big body defenseman the league has seen since 1990. The man threw so many elbows that i'd be surprised if he doesn't get arthritic elbows by the time he is 50 and require elbow replacement. Not to mention, every dirty play in the playbook possible. Even in the late 90s/early 2000s when the NHL was way, way more sympathetic to dangerous and malicious plays, Pronger was singled out as a nutcase who 'has it coming'. 
Showing him a Pronger tape is showing Tryamkin, a  6'7 250 pound guy, how to set the NHL record in the 2010s on getting his butt banned permanently. They could've showed him Chara. They could've showed him literally anyone else. But no matter.

 

My point is simple - he is a foreigner, who has the option to walk back home and make millions in the KHL the moment his contract is over. Not all players have this option, not even all Europeans have this option ( because the SHL and the Finnish league are not gonna pay you more than 1 mil a year max). Russians do. Its the only other league out there where they are giving hockey players 4-5 million bucks per annum and with Russia's flat 25% tax rate, its equivalent of making it 6-8M range. We have a North American bias to the sport, thinking that every player's sole goal is to win a cup and thats all that matters or to play in the best league possible. Thats most often not the case. Sure, its one of the many factors for most players, but may other things factor too. Russians bolt to Russia because they have the option to do so and still make millions. Its just that simple and there is nothing wrong with it, either. 

[ilduce39]

14 minutes ago, oldnews said:

and not only a language barrier, but also coming from large ice to small, and a NA game that is somewhat distinct from the European game and not necessarily easy to translate.

 

I think it's pretty common practice to show players videos of their (usually more developed) comparables - and even a fair sample of public comments made by players to that effect - ie I also recall Ryan Ellis has spoken publicly about being shown video of other smaller stature defensemen to help him develop his defensive game as an 'undersized' defenseman (I don't recall who the exact examples he was to emulate, but effective, smaller NHL defensemen).  I guess David Poile et al are also idiots (idiots that just happen to perenially re-produce one of the best bluelines in the NHL...)  Absolutely nothing wrong with expecting players to give their attention to improving.  Even the way this non-issue is framed - as if Tryamkin were 'locked' in a room and forced to watch video - makes me laugh with the new-age poor-me b.s., as if being a professional and doing one's homework makes a player a victim of a looney coach.  To me that sounds like a downright idiotic narrative spun by morons that aren't athletes, aren't students of the game, and aren't serving any informational purposes with the drivel they publish.

Yep, I agree. The Ellis example makes a ton of sense - that’s where this would be most effective - when a player, due to physical gifts or limitations would benefit from observing a non-traditional technique.  Smaller or huge players obviously can (or need to) do things a little differently to maximize effectiveness.

 

I always envisioned it framed as an exasperated Doug Lidster passing Nik an iPad and YouTubing some Pronger highlights while obnoxiously enunciating “be. like. him.” complete with over the top hand gestures... but the idea of him “unfairly” locked in a room is funny too. 

[canuckistani]

You know what I'd do in a heartbeat ?

Give up next year's 1st, 2nd, Tryamkin, Leivo and Beisbois for Paryako. Get er done JB! 

[hlinkas wrister]

It's so much fun to watch a guy that big who has his mobility and the ability to lay punishing hits like he does. Bring him back, pair him with Woo and get ready to see the opposition dump it in and run every chance they get.

[Tystick]

Odds are he's coming back, I think the KHL wasn't all it was cracked up to be for him.

He has one more year unless he finds a way to buy out his remaining season.

[10pavelbure96]

What was Dahlin's debut like?

 

Canucks may have "Pettersson'd" another draft lottery;)

[combover]

I’d like to see him come back.

could be he wasn’t mentally prepared the first time he came here, family friends culture.

He now knows what to expect and what’s expected if he decides to return.

 

 

 

[stawns]

9 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

i am not pouring kerosine on Willie's effigy and lighting it on fire, if you noticed. 

 

I fully agree that Tryamkin had to sit out the first two months because he showed up out of condition and not fit to play in the NHL after his summer wedding. No biggie, its a legit excuse IMO. People like him plan on getting married only once and when you are young, tick off one of THE biggest boxes in life, you are entitled to party it up a bit. It had consequences, which he paid for as well.

 

I am not sure though, that showing Pronger was a smart move to Tryamkin in the first place. Pronger isn't just any big tough defenseman, he is the dirtiest big body defenseman the league has seen since 1990. The man threw so many elbows that i'd be surprised if he doesn't get arthritic elbows by the time he is 50 and require elbow replacement. Not to mention, every dirty play in the playbook possible. Even in the late 90s/early 2000s when the NHL was way, way more sympathetic to dangerous and malicious plays, Pronger was singled out as a nutcase who 'has it coming'. 
Showing him a Pronger tape is showing Tryamkin, a  6'7 250 pound guy, how to set the NHL record in the 2010s on getting his butt banned permanently. They could've showed him Chara. They could've showed him literally anyone else. But no matter.

 

My point is simple - he is a foreigner, who has the option to walk back home and make millions in the KHL the moment his contract is over. Not all players have this option, not even all Europeans have this option ( because the SHL and the Finnish league are not gonna pay you more than 1 mil a year max). Russians do. Its the only other league out there where they are giving hockey players 4-5 million bucks per annum and with Russia's flat 25% tax rate, its equivalent of making it 6-8M range. We have a North American bias to the sport, thinking that every player's sole goal is to win a cup and thats all that matters or to play in the best league possible. Thats most often not the case. Sure, its one of the many factors for most players, but may other things factor too. Russians bolt to Russia because they have the option to do so and still make millions. Its just that simple and there is nothing wrong with it, either. 

just because he can doesn't mean it isn't a db move.

 

Truly, WD probably knows more about hockey than Tryamkin ever will and he was, obviously, just trying to help the kid develop into a well rounded dman.  I see no issue with it, at all.  In fact, I'd be disturbed if an NHL didn't do that.

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, 10pavelbure96 said:

What was Dahlin's debut like?

 

Canucks may have "Pettersson'd" another draft lottery;)

Dahlin is as likely to win the Calder as Petey at this point.......he's had a pretty consistent, excellent year.

[canuckistani]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

just because he can doesn't mean it isn't a db move.

Wanting to go play elsewhere after fulfilling your contract is, by definiton, not a douchebag move. Players are not slaves to the club and just because a random club came up and said your name on the mike doesn't mean you owe them anything more than whats letter of the contract. 

1 minute ago, stawns said:

 

Truly, WD probably knows more about hockey than Tryamkin ever will and he was, obviously, just trying to help the kid develop into a well rounded dman.  I see no issue with it, at all.  In fact, I'd be disturbed if an NHL didn't do that.

Doesn't sound like it. A man who shows a 6'7 giant in 2010s a video of Pronger or sits Kovulchuk for not being a 'defensively responsible forward', in his mid 30s, while STILL being top 4 scorers in his team, doesn't exactly scream competence to me. 

[xereau]

8 minutes ago, Tystick said:

Odds are he's coming back, I think the KHL wasn't all it was cracked up to be for him.

He has one more year unless he finds a way to buy out his remaining season.

In Soviet Russia, contract buys out you.

 

(there is always a way)

[stawns]

Just now, canuckistani said:

Wanting to go play elsewhere after fulfilling your contract is, by definiton, not a douchebag move. Players are not slaves to the club and just because a random club came up and said your name on the mike doesn't mean you owe them anything more than whats letter of the contract. 

Doesn't sound like it. A man who shows a 6'7 giant in 2010s a video of Pronger or sits Kovulchuk for not being a 'defensively responsible forward', in his mid 30s, while STILL being top 4 scorers in his team, doesn't exactly scream competence to me. 

that's a minor league move, imo.  Not something you pull in the elite league of the world.  Bush league, but that's my opinion.  Again, he was a kid and kids do dumb things, I'd like to see him back, but with a better attitude.

 

If Kovie can't, or won't, play defense then he's going to have issues with every single coach in the NHL.  What's your issue with showing players video?  Video is the single biggest coaching tool used now.

[stawns]

25 minutes ago, oldnews said:

yeah, but most of that had to do with the liberties Pronger took - he had a vicious stick and he was certainly physical, but very little of it had to do with being a "tough guy" - like I said, he didn't actually fight very often, particularly for that era (once or twice a year in the 1990s would not make him a relative "tough guy").

 

 He was dirty, he was mean, he wasn't above cheap shots or impaling people with his stick - but I think the point was probably more to the effect of "here's how one of the most dominant big defensmen in the game utilized his size and strength to relatively neutralize opponents without necessarily punching them in the face.  Of course, Pronger would need to seriously reel in his game/antics today, but there was a lot more to his game than simply a tough guy element - lots to see there for a rookie NHL developing his own game - and one that wouldn't necessarily have grown up watching the north american game.

yeah, I don't get why anyone would have an issue with WD using Pronger as an example.  He was an absolute beast and one of the best all around defenders to ever play.