J.T. Miller | #9 | C/W

[Rindiculous]

6 hours ago, aGENT said:

They've also frequently discussed needing additional puck moving D on our back end (and getting younger and faster). Offense isn't solely created by forwards.

 

See above. It's not as simple as JT is good = we keep JT. And yes, we may very well be a slightly worse team if we move Miller in the the very near term. It's not about the near term, it's about maximizing our chances at a cup in +/- 2-7 years. Hopefully Bo sees that and sticks around to see the fruit of these moves, should we make them. But if not, we best be moving him for assets as well. It's business.

1. We have Hughes and OEL with Myers as a good third.  I don't know what team has a better puck moving top 3 in their lineup like wtf???  Our forwards are CLEARLY the problem if any of those people discussing this point would actually watch a game.  Our defense ARE the ones who end up pushing the offense starting from the defensive zone to gaining the offensive zone.

 

2. The bolded statement might be the most idiotic thing I've read.  Get rid of Miller and if Bo doesn't agree sell him off as well?  SELL THE &^@#ING TEAM THEN because if management did that they clearly are inspired by the Arizona Coyotes and want to lose every single game.  Do you want to win a Stanley Cup?  Well if you do here's a little tip: don't actively try to make the team worse after a team has already rebuilt.  That is tried again and again with every single Stanley Cup winner.  Miller is understandable.  Obviously, there's no way you can trade him this deadline unless we're bottom of the NHL.  You wait until this offseason and try to resign him to a reasonable contract to fit the roster going forward.  If not you look into trading him that offseason or next trade deadline.

[FaninMex]

We are only trading him at the TDL if we are clearly out of a playoff spot. I do not think that will happen. I think we are a much better team than people give credit. I think a lot are still stuck on Green's broken team. Our offense is starting to ramp up and is going to start catching teams.

[TGT68]

4 hours ago, FaninMex said:

We are only trading him at the TDL if we are clearly out of a playoff spot. I do not think that will happen. I think we are a much better team than people give credit. I think a lot are still stuck on Green's broken team. Our offense is starting to ramp up and is going to start catching teams.

You need 96 points or so to make the playoffs.  Plus 14 or so.  We are even at about halfway now.  Basically need to win 2 of every 3 from here to have a chance.  Could we?  Maybe.  

[MeanSeanBean]

7 hours ago, Rindiculous said:

Resigning Miller will mean losing guys like Pearson, Hamonic, Hoglander and/or Poolman before a guy like Boeser.  There is absolutely no way resigning Miller will mean we lose one of our top 4 forwards.

I don't see it that way myself. The way our cap looks to be structured to me at least. Even if that was the case, we don't have a strong enough organizational depth to replace those guys with decent young players on ECLs. Even if we are able to trade Poolman or Pearson, who comes up to play those minutes? We would still need to be signing players to eat minutes for us.

[aGENT]

8 hours ago, Rindiculous said:

1. We have Hughes and OEL with Myers as a good third.  I don't know what team has a better puck moving top 3 in their lineup like wtf???  Our forwards are CLEARLY the problem if any of those people discussing this point would actually watch a game.  Our defense ARE the ones who end up pushing the offense starting from the defensive zone to gaining the offensive zone.

Hughes is the only one really driving offense. Granted, some of that is because OEL/Myers are left carrying most of the harder matchup etc minutes and aren't getting as offensive tilted usage. BECAUSE WE NEED BETTER D.

 

Rutherford and Boudreau have both literally talked about this out of their very own mouths. 

 

Never mind that Hamonic (if he isn't MIA) is done next year. Myers the year after. Who's playing in our top 4, right side after that? What's your succession plan? How are we supposed to 'win the cup' with no D?

 

8 hours ago, Rindiculous said:

2. The bolded statement might be the most idiotic thing I've read.  Get rid of Miller and if Bo doesn't agree sell him off as well?  SELL THE &^@#ING TEAM THEN because if management did that they clearly are inspired by the Arizona Coyotes and want to lose every single game.  Do you want to win a Stanley Cup?  Well if you do here's a little tip: don't actively try to make the team worse after a team has already rebuilt.  That is tried again and again with every single Stanley Cup winner.  Miller is understandable.  Obviously, there's no way you can trade him this deadline unless we're bottom of the NHL.  You wait until this offseason and try to resign him to a reasonable contract to fit the roster going forward.  If not you look into trading him that offseason or next trade deadline.

If the team makes necessary moves with Miller and Horvat is going to walk to UFA for nothing because of it, damn right you move him. Hopefully Horvat and his agent aren't that short sighted.

 

Do you want to win a cup? Don't settle for mediocrity and a team that is clearly not a cup contender with Miller on it. Clearly we need to make changes to become better. Changes = moving out (selling high) current players that maybe don't fit our timeline, whether you like them or not. Good players or not. Do we want to be better now, prior to our contention window, or during it. THAT is how you win a cup.

 

5 hours ago, FaninMex said:

We are only trading him at the TDL if we are clearly out of a playoff spot.

Nobody anywhere has suggested otherwise as far as I can tell.

 

5 hours ago, FaninMex said:

I do not think that will happen. I think we are a much better team than people give credit. I think a lot are still stuck on Green's broken team. Our offense is starting to ramp up and is going to start catching teams.

I think you need to check your math. This team is now playing like I thought they would and yes, far better than the early part of their season, pre-Bruce. But they still need to win like 2/3 of their games to maybe, just squeak in. Possible? Sure. Likely...? Eh.....

Edited January 19, 2022 by aGENT

[FaninMex]

2 hours ago, TGT68 said:

You need 96 points or so to make the playoffs.  Plus 14 or so.  We are even at about halfway now.  Basically need to win 2 of every 3 from here to have a chance.  Could we?  Maybe.  

Defeatist. We are going to the playoffs

[FaninMex]

15 hours ago, aGENT said:

They've also frequently discussed needing additional puck moving D on our back end (and getting younger and faster). Offense isn't solely created by forwards.

 

Never mind completely ignoring any succession plan for soon to be expiring Myers and Hamonic.

 

Most of the proposals are for guys like Schneider who's currently on a $925 base/$1.325 (potential bonuses) AAV, ELC. 

 

Depends on how you define 'win'. Miller is certainly the best player now. Will he still be that in 4 years? Does that factor in the cap we save to shore up other areas/keep other younger core players? The multiplication of assets? Getting younger and faster? Not getting saddled with an $8m+ contract for a mid 30's player in the meat of our core's prime? Aiming to be more competitive in 2+ years during our core's actual prime?

 

See above. It's not as simple as JT is good = we keep JT. And yes, we may very well be a slightly worse team if we move Miller in the the very near term. It's not about the near term, it's about maximizing our chances at a cup in +/- 2-7 years. Hopefully Bo sees that and sticks around to see the fruit of these moves, should we make them. But if not, we best be moving him for assets as well. It's business.

 

He's a top 10-15 F in the league, in his prime, that plays all F positions, all situations, and is on a good contract for two more playoff runs. All the reasons you'd like to keep him are the same reasons he has LOADS of trade value to a team ready to compete NOW. The Rangers are already reportedly exploring numerous high value assets. I don't think it would be hard at all actually.

Why watch the games then? We are just going to lose anyways.

[Nucker 67]

Does anyone really think the Canucks are contenders, or even a playoff team this year?

 

I recently heard Dhaliwal whining and crying about "what message will that send to Bo and Quinn, who want to win?"  Dhali isn't seeing the big picture.

 

Trade Miller at the TDL to the highest bidder. In return the Canucks will probably get a 1st, a prospect and a player. WTF?  Take that and run.  Next year's draft is a good one and the Canucks desperately need Grade A prospects. Other than Rathbone and possibly Klimovich, they don't have anyone.

 

Also trade Boeser for an upgrade on D.

 

Let's stop toiling at mediocrity and build a championship team. Draft and develop.

 

 

[appleboy]

I love Miller, Bo and Boeser. But this is not a team that is or will be cup bound any time in the near future.

I want a cup. Not a hope and a prayer for a playoff berth.

[aGENT]

15 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

Why watch the games then? We are just going to lose anyways.

We might not (likely won't) make the playoffs. I didn't say we'd lose all the games. I expect we'll win roughly/a hair over half +/-. I watch for entertainment personally. That and see how players are doing/developing etc.

 

I think this year's unfortunately likely a write-off for playoffs because of our crappy start, but that doesn't mean I'm down about the team's prospects in future seasons or cheering for losses. Just being pragmatic about the numbers this season. They've unfortunately just dug too deep a hole this season for playoffs to be a realistic goal. Happy to have them prove me wrong by playing .700 hockey here out though. And in that case, no, we won't be moving Miller until the summer.

 

Same as I'm being pragmatic about the reality that Miller is unlikely to sign the +/- 4-5 year $6.5m extension that would make sense for the Canucks given the age of their core, cap situation, other players needing raises etc, etc. He can likely get a 6-8 year +/- $8m deal elsewhere. Or he can sign that 5x$6.5 deal we'd need, on a team that's competitive now and has less taxes. It's just not realistic he'll re-up here.

 

Hence we're best off maximizing his trade value when it makes sense to do so and to give this team the best opportunity to win, when the core is actually in it's prime in 2-7 years +/-.

[appleboy]

They would need to get a kings Ransome for Miller. He could be a real good player for 5 plus years yet. It will be interesting to see if they can manage to squeeze Miller and Horvat into their cap for the next 5 years. 

If they can tweak the D and add some scoring then we have a team. When I look at their cap structure and try to fit in enough talent to compete I get a headache. 

The key is the cap management.  It is what is hurting the Oilers.

[Googlie]

On 1/19/2022 at 3:43 PM, appleboy said:

They would need to get a kings Ransome for Miller. He could be a real good player for 5 plus years yet. It will be interesting to see if they can manage to squeeze Miller and Horvat into their cap for the next 5 years. 

If they can tweak the D and add some scoring then we have a team. When I look at their cap structure and try to fit in enough talent to compete I get a headache. 

The key is the cap management.  It is what is hurting the Oilers.

Here, from "NHL Trade Rumors"  today ....

 

The New York Rangers are reportedly interested in Vancouver Canucks forward J.T Miller and will continue to try and convince the Canucks to make a deal before the Mar.21 deadline. 

The Canucks will surely listen to offers on numerous players on their roster but with new head coach Bruce Boudreau getting the team back on track, don't expect any deals to happen before late March. The team will continue to push for the Stanley Cup playoffs and currently sit only five points out of the second wild card spot.

Miller is sought after by not only the Rangers but many teams for his leadership qualities, his production on the ice and his fierce competitive spirit. The 28-year-old is under contract through next season at only $5.25 million and doesn't hold any trade protection.

So far in 39 games in 2021-22, Miller has been a point-a-game player. He was one member of the Canucks who was critical of the team's coaching staff earlier in the season before management made a change. Miller was often yelling during practice about the organization of drills and expected more out of his head coach Travis Green at the time.

A small nugget worth noting is the fact Miller had a no-trade clause prior to being dealt to the Canucks and Vancouver did void the clause after acquiring him from the Tampa Bay Lighting in 2019. Miller spent six seasons with the Rangers and was a former first-round pick in 2011. If the Canucks end up sending him packing back to the Big Apple, expect a mega-package heading back to Vancouver that likely includes one of Alexis Lafreniere or Kaapo Kakko. New York currently has $7.1 million in cap space.

 

 

[JM_]

19 minutes ago, Googlie said:

Here, from "NHL Trade Rumors"  today ....

 

The New York Rangers are reportedly interested in Vancouver Canucks forward J.T Miller and will continue to try and convince the Canucks to make a deal before the Mar.21 deadline. 

The Canucks will surely listen to offers on numerous players on their roster but with new head coach Bruce Boudreau getting the team back on track, don't expect any deals to happen before late March. The team will continue to push for the Stanley Cup playoffs and currently sit only five points out of the second wild card spot.

Miller is sought after by not only the Rangers but many teams for his leadership qualities, his production on the ice and his fierce competitive spirit. The 28-year-old is under contract through next season at only $5.25 million and doesn't hold any trade protection.

So far in 39 games in 2021-22, Miller has been a point-a-game player. He was one member of the Canucks who was critical of the team's coaching staff earlier in the season before management made a change. Miller was often yelling during practice about the organization of drills and expected more out of his head coach Travis Green at the time.

A small nugget worth noting is the fact Miller had a no-trade clause prior to being dealt to the Canucks and Vancouver did void the clause after acquiring him from the Tampa Bay Lighting in 2019. Miller spent six seasons with the Rangers and was a former first-round pick in 2011. If the Canucks end up sending him packing back to the Big Apple, expect a mega-package heading back to Vancouver that likely includes one of Alexis Lafreniere or Kaapo Kakko. New York currently has $7.1 million in cap space.

 

 

 

no interest in Kakko at all.... A La F is interesting. I have a hard time thinking they give up a 1st oa though. 

 

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

 

no interest in Kakko at all.... A La F is interesting. I have a hard time thinking they give up a 1st oa though. 

 

Yeah, unfortunately I don't see the Rags doing that either.

 

So Schneider, Chytil and 1st rounder it is!

[The Lock]

On 1/19/2022 at 9:21 AM, appleboy said:

I love Miller, Bo and Boeser. But this is not a team that is or will be cup bound any time in the near future.

I want a cup. Not a hope and a prayer for a playoff berth.

Trading Miller or not trading Miller (or anyone for that matter) doesn't really get us closer or farther from getting a cup. I want a cup too. If only the solution was simple (which it clearly isn't). A lot of good transactions, drafting, and a lot of luck is really what's going to get us the best chance. Even if all that falls into place, we could end up like Florida or Edmonton with all the talent but it ends up taking years for that talent to actually do something.

Edited January 21, 2022 by The Lock

[J-Dizzle]

3 hours ago, Googlie said:

Here, from "NHL Trade Rumors"  today ....

 

The New York Rangers are reportedly interested in Vancouver Canucks forward J.T Miller and will continue to try and convince the Canucks to make a deal before the Mar.21 deadline. 

The Canucks will surely listen to offers on numerous players on their roster but with new head coach Bruce Boudreau getting the team back on track, don't expect any deals to happen before late March. The team will continue to push for the Stanley Cup playoffs and currently sit only five points out of the second wild card spot.

Miller is sought after by not only the Rangers but many teams for his leadership qualities, his production on the ice and his fierce competitive spirit. The 28-year-old is under contract through next season at only $5.25 million and doesn't hold any trade protection.

So far in 39 games in 2021-22, Miller has been a point-a-game player. He was one member of the Canucks who was critical of the team's coaching staff earlier in the season before management made a change. Miller was often yelling during practice about the organization of drills and expected more out of his head coach Travis Green at the time.

A small nugget worth noting is the fact Miller had a no-trade clause prior to being dealt to the Canucks and Vancouver did void the clause after acquiring him from the Tampa Bay Lighting in 2019. Miller spent six seasons with the Rangers and was a former first-round pick in 2011. If the Canucks end up sending him packing back to the Big Apple, expect a mega-package heading back to Vancouver that likely includes one of Alexis Lafreniere or Kaapo Kakko. New York currently has $7.1 million in cap space.

 

 

I have a hard time imagining they'd put Larreniere on the table. I know he's been a little underwhelming for a 1 oa but he's been far from horrendous and he's only 20.... 

[JM_]

4 hours ago, higgyfan said:

Yeah, unfortunately I don't see the Rags doing that either.

 

So Schneider, Chytil and 1st rounder it is!

I mean you have to be thrilled if thats the return. Basically a 20th oa for that if we're playing that game. 

[J-P]

I think the reasoning that we can't trade JT without giving up on the season is a bit simplified. If EP gets going and JT gets us a good matchup 3C (along with a good D and a 1st round pick) you could argue that increases the balance on the team to a degree where we actually might gain from it even short term. Also, you can't really say that a team gets so much better or worse if you take away this one player and add that one player instead, it's not as simple as that.

 

For sure JT would be missed, but I could live with it short term as well as long term. Having EP/Horvat/Miller as our top centers is a luxury we could afford if we were contenders now, but as it stands we need to trade one of them to balance our team, to get cap space and to fill in missing pieces for the future.

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, J-P said:

I think the reasoning that we can't trade JT without giving up on the season is a bit simplified. If EP gets going and JT gets us a good matchup 3C (along with a good D and a 1st round pick) you could argue that increases the balance on the team to a degree where we actually might gain from it even short term. Also, you can't really say that a team gets so much better or worse if you take away this one player and add that one player instead, it's not as simple as that.

 

For sure JT would be missed, but I could live with it short term as well as long term. Having EP/Horvat/Miller as our top centers is a luxury we could afford if we were contenders now, but as it stands we need to trade one of them to balance our team, to get cap space and to fill in missing pieces for the future.

I think it's entirely possible that we could trade Miller and still have roughly the same chances of making the playoffs this year, with the right return. All while being far better set up long term, better cap situation and multiplying assets in a sell high scenario.

 

I've actually come to the conclusion that it's likely the right thing to do, regardless of our playoff hopes this season. And I'm starting to get the indication that may be how Rutherford feels as well.

[Nucker 67]

10 hours ago, Googlie said:

expect a mega-package heading back to Vancouver that likely includes one of Alexis Lafreniere or Kaapo Kakko

What a boost to the youth movement getting one of those guys. The thing is, with Miller and his contract being so desirable, teams will overpay the longer JR holds out. Maybe he creates a bidding war.