J.T. Miller | #9 | C/W

[Diamonds]

27 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

I'd prefer Forsberg, if we go that route. Malkin would certainly be less term commitment though. 

 

Either would be pretty solid "add assets while not taking a step back" moves though.

 

Couple that with moving Myers out and using our additional cap space to acquire a guy like Roy from Vegas to be 3C and we may even take a step forward...

I guess with Eichel and Karlsson infront of him and Howden coming up behind him Vegas doesn't technically need Roy, but who on the Canucks would they want for his rights? I guess if they let Reilly Smith walk they might be interested in Garland but they still have a lot of top 6 capable wingers.

[aGENT]

12 minutes ago, Diamonds said:

I guess with Eichel and Karlsson infront of him and Howden coming up behind him Vegas doesn't technically need Roy, but who on the Canucks would they want for his rights? I guess if they let Reilly Smith walk they might be interested in Garland but they still have a lot of top 6 capable wingers.

They need to clear cap. Like BADLY. I'm suggesting something like, we take on Dadanov at their expense of sending us Roy. We send a lesser, cheaper warm body back in exchange. Say Pearson or Dickinson. 

 

They clear cap, we gain assets.

[Diamonds]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

They need to clear cap. Like BADLY. I'm suggesting something like, we take on Dadanov at their expense of sending us Roy. We send a lesser, cheaper warm body back in exchange. Say Pearson or Dickinson. 

 

They clear cap, we gain assets.

If we can somehow get both Dadonov and Roy for Pearson I'd definitely be down. Dadonov would also greatly help mitigate the loss of Miller. Still not sure Vegas would go for it though.

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, Diamonds said:

If we can somehow get both Dadonov and Roy for Pearson I'd definitely be down. Dadonov would also greatly help mitigate the loss of Miller. Still not sure Vegas would go for it though.

Nobody is going to do them any favours clearing the cap they need to clear.

[FaninMex]

17 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Nobody is going to do them any favours clearing the cap they need to clear.

Where are they at and where do they need to get to?

[aGENT]

17 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

Where are they at and where do they need to get to?

IIRC, they're about $2m over, with a 17 man roster. So about $8m over even if they sign 6 guys at $1m'ish/near league minimum. Conservatively.

 

Roy is probably going to cost about what Pearson is making on a new deal so we'd basically be taking 1 year of Dadanov at $5m, which gets them at about half way there.

 

Heck, maybe we can send them Ferland instead/as well, if they can get themselves under enough to utilize his LTIR.

Edited June 16, 2022 by aGENT

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[-DLC-]

We can't afford to trade him.....

 

 

[JM_]

10 hours ago, -DLC- said:

We can't afford to trade him.....

 

 

I guess he might price himself out of our market, but if there's a deal to be had long term with him that makes sense you have to do it imo. You have to retain top talent. 

 

[JM_]

27 minutes ago, Muttley said:

All the talk I've been seeing in print (rumors) about how he wants a kazillion bucks and will want to go wherever will give it to him.( LOL ) yet the only thing I've EVER 

hears JT say on many an occasion is how he wants to bring a championship to the Vancouver Canucks. Doubt he meant that if he didn't think he'd be a part of it. 

I've said it before, I think he'll sign a deal that starts with a seven. He's not a dummy, he knows his age. One thing I'm sure about and that's JT doesn't seem like 

a guy that would strictly let his agent do whatever without him having the biggest voice. 

I'd be giddy with something around 7x7. 

[Alflives]

12 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I'd be giddy with something around 7x7. 

I'm thinking if the two sides can agree on a total dollar amount then JR will allocate the cap spending.  So I'm seeing 60 million as the total.  

7.5 x 8.  

[NucknAsia]

1 hour ago, Muttley said:

All the talk I've been seeing in print (rumors) about how he wants a kazillion bucks and will want to go wherever will give it to him.( LOL ) yet the only thing I've EVER 

hears JT say on many an occasion is how he wants to bring a championship to the Vancouver Canucks. Doubt he meant that if he didn't think he'd be a part of it. 

I've said it before, I think he'll sign a deal that starts with a seven. He's not a dummy, he knows his age. One thing I'm sure about and that's JT doesn't seem like 

a guy that would strictly let his agent do whatever without him having the biggest voice. 

Landeskog signed for 8 years x 7 mil. Realistically, no one is going to pay a player who's had one GREAT year and is a terrific player otherwise more than that. If he came in at that level (and maybe 6 years), it would be great and also would set an internal cap for other players.

[JM_]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

I'm thinking if the two sides can agree on a total dollar amount then JR will allocate the cap spending.  So I'm seeing 60 million as the total.  

7.5 x 8.  

yeah we could end up there. As we've discussed before, as long as its nicely front loaded and doesn't have NMC's in the last 2-3 years then that AAV is workable. We can always flip him to a bottom feeder thats looking for low cost AAV when he hits his decline. 

 

Edited June 17, 2022 by JM_

[wildcam]

On 6/16/2022 at 11:17 PM, -DLC- said:

We can't afford to trade him.....

 

 

Yes trade Miller for good package... The LA Kings, NYR, NY Devils, Blue Jackets should be front runners for Miller...

NJ Devils - Holtz 20 -- Graves 27, 6'5 D man toughness -- 2nd rounder 2022

LA Kings -Faber 6'2 RD 21 or Grans 6'4 RD 20 --Vilardi 23, 6'3 -C -- Lemieux 26, 6'3 -W -- 2023- 2nd rounder

NYR-  Kravvtsov 23, 6'2 -W--Lundkvist 21-RD 5'11---Robertson 20- LD, 6'4 -Gettinger 23 - W, 6'4

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, wildcam said:

Yes trade Miller for good package... The LA Kings, NYR, NY Devils, Blue Jackets should be front runners for Miller...

NJ Devils - Holtz 20 -- Graves 27, 6'5 D man toughness -- 2nd rounder 2022

LA Kings -Faber 6'2 RD 21 or Grans 6'4 RD 20 --Vilardi 23, 6'3 -C -- Lemieux 26, 6'3 -W -- 2023- 2nd rounder

NYR-  Kravvtsov 23, 6'2 -W--Lundkvist 21-RD 5'11---Robertson 20- LD, 6'4 -Gettinger 23 - W, 6'4

Please, if there is a hockey God, let one of these three proposed traded come true. 

[-DLC-]

Canucks didn't like the offers coming in....so some here may have ideas of what should/could come back, I'm not sure the teams in question agree or are making those offers.

[Boudrias]

On 6/18/2022 at 7:04 PM, -DLC- said:

Canucks didn't like the offers coming in....so some here may have ideas of what should/could come back, I'm not sure the teams in question agree or are making those offers.

You could be very right Deb. As fans we often over value our players. Not that JT should not be valued highly. I think the Covid CAP is truly handcuffing a large number of teams. Many will be watching the CUP finals and wondering how they can emulate the teams with success. Especially true of the Av's and NYR. They have valuable younger assets that are preforming well at a very affordable cost. What NHL teams will be willing to lose a lot of draft picks and prospects for a 29 year old looking at UFA status? 

 

Watching the playoffs reconfirms in my mind how far the Canucks have to go before they can contend in a serious way for the Cup. It retrospect they have come a long way since 2015 but have further to go. I am on the 'move Miller' camp because he does have value and I think he can bring younger players to the Club that will help bring contention. As we ponder JT's future I suspect a trade might be more of a hockey trade where Van gets a better defense. That is where the most help is needed. The Canucks have a world class tender in Demko but no tender can be asked to stop 40-50 shots a night. His body won't hold up. 

[Alflives]

Just now, Boudrias said:

You could be very right Deb. As fans we often over value our players. Not that JT should not be valued highly. I think the Covid CAP is truly handcuffing a large number of teams. Many will be watching the CUP finals and wondering how they can emulate the teams with success. Especially true of the Av's and NYR. They have valuable younger assets that are preforming well at a very affordable cost. What NHL teams will be willing to lose a lot of draft picks and prospects for a 29 year old looking at UFA status? 

 

Watching the playoffs reconfirms in my mind how far the Canucks have to go before they can contend in a serious way for the Cup. It retrospect they have come a long way since 2015 but have further to go. I am on the 'move Miller' camp because he does have value and I think he can bring younger players to the Club that will help bring contention. As we ponder JT's future I suspect a trade might be more of a hockey trade where Van gets a better defense. That is where the most help is needed. The Canucks have a world class tender in Demko but no tender can be asked to stop 40-50 shots a night. His body won't hold up. 

And maybe if we are so far away from creating a team that must rely on its goalie to be super human, it's best to move not only Miller but that super human goalie too?  Demko is 26.  If we are 3-5 years away, maybe we could move him and get another elite core piece to grow with Petey and Hughes?  

[-AJ-]

59 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And maybe if we are so far away from creating a team that must rely on its goalie to be super human, it's best to move not only Miller but that super human goalie too?  Demko is 26.  If we are 3-5 years away, maybe we could move him and get another elite core piece to grow with Petey and Hughes?  

I think it would be unreasonable to move Demko. It's really not very common to land such a stud of a young goaltender and many netminders can remain excellent well into their 30s. Demko could even beat Luongo's longevity records if he stays a Canuck for long enough.

[tyhee]

On 6/20/2022 at 10:22 AM, -AJ- said:

I think it would be unreasonable to move Demko. It's really not very common to land such a stud of a young goaltender and many netminders can remain excellent well into their 30s. Demko could even beat Luongo's longevity records if he stays a Canuck for long enough.

I know this is the JTM thread, but since someone suggested trading Demko, it is an intriguing idea.  I don't think it would be likely to work but my reasoning is very different.

 

1.  Demko being an excellent goaltender should not in and of itself be a reason to refuse to move him, the same as it shouldn't be for any player.  Of course, the better the player the more the team would have to get in return to consider moving him.  In Demko's case it would obviously have to be a great haul coming back.

 

2.  It seems to me that the return for trading goaltenders is lower than it was a few seasons ago, just as it is less common to see goalies as mid to high first round picks.

 

3.  The most intriguing of your points is goalies being excellent well into their thirties.

 

I don't think there is much doubt that was the case not all that many years ago.  I haven't done a study on it, but wonder if the way goalies play the game now has changed that, at least partly due to the amount of time goalies now seem to spend in the butterfly.

 

When we look at this past season, the oldest goalies who were starters and whose play might be termed excellent were 32 years old-Frederik Andersen and Jacob Markstrom.  Darcy Kuemper was 31.  In my view no other starting NHL goaltender in 2021-2022 who was 31 years of age or more had an excellent season and many now carry contracts that are a waste of cap space or of the owners' or insurers' money. 

 

(Imo, while it could theoretically happen it would be truly exceptional if a goalie had an excellent season not to place in the top 12 in Goals Saved Against Average.)

 

I haven't looked at the matter in enough detail to say with any certainty, but I wonder if the days of goalies being regularly really good into their mid-30's are gone, to the extent that it will be  truly unusual to find a goalie playing excellently in his mid-30's.

Edited June 22, 2022 by tyhee