[Official] 2019 Training Camp Thread

[Googlie]

38 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

Translation:  "We really REALLY want him on the team, and are seeing where we can fit him in."

I agree with this. If the consensus of the brains trust was that Gaudette would be better served honing his skills in Utica, he'd be there now to try to build chemistry with linemates through Utica's exhibition season. I don't think that the fact he's still with the big team means that they're waiting for another injury or a trade. I think Benning and Green definitely want him on the team, but where?

[gameburn]

4 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

That has to play itself out.

 

Myers looks faster than Alex, slicker, obviously bigger. Not as steady though. At either end. At this stage, he's the better player. 

So far, Myers is inferior to Edler, I agree.  But this may change over the course of the year.  We all saw Edler single-handedly hand games over to the opposition -- he isn't necessarily that steady.  His offense and sometimes physical game bail him out.  The other thing is that Edler in the last few years has backed into his own zone too easily, letting opposition players control the puck.  I know he doesn't make horrendous turnovers as often as Myers has so far, but he lets the opposition into the zone as well as looking slow in retrieving pucks.  In a way, he is the mirror opposite of Hughes.   Hughes will intercept and prevent better than anyone we've seen.  He'll also be brilliant at creating offense off turnovers.  His vision is remarkable as well.  He will not do what Edler does: push people off the puck and block shots. Hopefully, Hughes will not have to do the latter, because of his prevention and puck control skills.  We will see.

[Canuck Surfer]

2 minutes ago, gameburn said:

We all saw Edler single-handedly hand games over to the opposition

This is the problem with over rabid Canadian fans.

 

Every defenceman gets beat, has turnovers.  He also won games, played the hardest minutes, against the best players.  That has value, not disgrace.

[Canuck Surfer]

Ungrateful fans...  

[48MPHSlapShot]

Edler is the best defenseman of the team. He produces like a top pairing Dman and constantly goes up against the opposing teams top players. 

 

This much should be obvious to anyone who watches the games.

[ilduce39]

11 minutes ago, gameburn said:

Our relatively mediocre team/record over the last 2 or 3 years has allowed Edler to get both pp time and time on the ice sufficient to be considered a top-2 on our team.   How good is he, really?  He was horrendously bad only 3 and 4 years ago, and at times since then (just can't track pucks/close off areas anymore, too slow), although like everyone else here, I have to admit he has been genuinely better the last year and a half.  How he has done this at his age is remarkable.  Maybe it's having Stech or Tanev around, maybe it's just a nice late bloom in his game.  Note his plus minus numbers: inferior to Stecher I believe.  At times he wasn't nearly as good as Hutton, who we were happy enough not to re-sign.  

 

If it weren't for his more than occasional point production -- a God send last year at times -- I think he would look  much less essential to this team.  And some of those points connected to Boeser and Pettersson who would have allowed any D to get points on the pp.   

Also, note ppg for Biega: comparable to Edler.  Biega's skating and passion allow him to rush the puck surprisingly well.  And not many points on pp either. If Biega had had Edler's pp time, I suspect their numbers would be identical. 

 

Again: how good is Edler really?  If Myers and Hughes (and next year Juolevi and Woo) do the bulk of the offense, rather than Edler, I think he begins to slip back in the depth chart.  In my opinion, we won't miss him when he retires/leaves at the end of his contract. 

Can’t really agree with some of this.  

 

Edler hasn’t been a “top two” on our team... he’s been the #1 and it’s not even close.  I never buy the “he only gets points because he gets playing time” argument.  Tons of guys get ice time and do nothing with it.  He’s also being deployed at 5v5 in 59% and 54% dzone starts so it’s not like he’s some sheltered offensive specialist. 

 

You mention Hutton, who played 2nd most minutes on the team and 2 less per night than Edler.  At 5v5 the team scored 2 goals per 60 and let in 3 per 60.  He finished at -23 on the year.  With Edler on the ice we generated 2.8 goals per 60 and allowed 2.6.  He finished +3.  We all know Edler likely got to play with stronger players but he took the tougher matchups.  Edler also generates a lot more O on the PP, which Hutton still got a lot of time at last year. Looking at the stats, there’s really no comparison.  

 

Im also not sure about the Biega comparison.  Biega had an awesome year offensively last season but it was still well below Edler’s. He had 25 points over 85 games the past 2 years.  Edler has put up 68 points in 126 games.  Again, in regular high minute situations where Biega historically begins to fade. 

 

As far as, “how good is Edler, really” I’d say a whole lot better than people give him credit for... he’s our #1 and would be a quality #2-3 on most teams.  At his age I have no idea how long it’ll last - so maybe an ascendant Juolevi and Hughes and a return of Tryamkin effectively replace him..  but to start this season he’s a top-4 important player on this team behind Pettersson-Horvat-Markstrom IMO.

[Gurn]

40 minutes ago, gameburn said:

I have to admit he has been genuinely better the last year and a half.  How he has done this at his age is remarkable.  Maybe it's having Stech or Tanev around, maybe it's just a nice late bloom in his game.

Maybe his back is feeling better, his confidence is back and the team around him is getting better?

[gameburn]

10 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

This is the problem with over rabid Canadian fans.

 

Every defenceman gets beat, has turnovers.  He also won games, played the hardest minutes, against the best players.  That has value, not disgrace.

It is true that the D are the next line of defense out from the goalies.  And in some games they can be the goat.  I know it can seem unfair to target the D, but some D seem to be goats more often than others.  If a forward "misses" he probably doesn't cause an opposition goal, he just misses a chance for a goal, while if a D "misses" he can very likely look like a means to an opposition player killing our team. So, I have to agree with you on your main point.  But suggest too that players that are goats less often are noteworthy.  In my opinion, Stecher outplayed Edler last year for that reason.

[gameburn]

2 minutes ago, gurn said:

Maybe his back is feeling better, his confidence is back and the team around him is getting better?

That would help, true. Lol. 

[xereau]

1 minute ago, gameburn said:

It is true that the D are the next line of defense out from the goalies.  And in some games they can be the goat.  I know it can seem unfair to target the D, but some D seem to be goats more often than others.  If a forward "misses" he probably doesn't cause an opposition goal, he just misses a chance for a goal, while if a D "misses" he can very likely look like a means to an opposition player killing our team. So, I have to agree with you on your main point.  But suggest too that players that are goats less often are noteworthy.  In my opinion, Stecher outplayed Edler last year for that reason.

This guy?  Wonder when he gets an A, btw

 

I love Stetcher, what a story and he is a great player for us.

 

[gameburn]

12 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

Can’t really agree with some of this.  

 

Edler hasn’t been a “top two” on our team... he’s been the #1 and it’s not even close.  I never buy the “he only gets points because he gets playing time” argument.  Tons of guys get ice time and do nothing with it.  He’s also being deployed at 5v5 in 59% and 54% dzone starts so it’s not like he’s some sheltered offensive specialist. 

 

You mention Hutton, who played 2nd most minutes on the team and 2 less per night than Edler.  At 5v5 the team scored 2 goals per 60 and let in 3 per 60.  He finished at -23 on the year.  With Edler on the ice we generated 2.8 goals per 60 and allowed 2.6.  He finished +3.  We all know Edler likely got to play with stronger players but he took the tougher matchups.  Edler also generates a lot more O on the PP, which Hutton still got a lot of time at last year. Looking at the stats, there’s really no comparison.  

 

Im also not sure about the Biega comparison.  Biega had an awesome year offensively last season but it was still well below Edler’s. He had 25 points over 85 games the past 2 years.  Edler has put up 68 points in 126 games.  Again, in regular high minute situations where Biega historically begins to fade. 

 

As far as, “how good is Edler, really” I’d say a whole lot better than people give him credit for... he’s our #1 and would be a quality #2-3 on most teams.  At his age I have no idea how long it’ll last - so maybe an ascendant Juolevi and Hughes and a return of Tryamkin effectively replace him..  but to start this season he’s a top-4 important player on this team behind Pettersson-Horvat-Markstrom IMO.

You make a convincing argument.  I may have to rethink my opinion on Edler.  I love stats and hadn't realized he'd performed as well as that last year.

The one issue that haunts me on this is his slowness and the fact that he seems to concede the zone to opposing players easier than many of our D.  It's not just me that sees that is it? 

[Kanukfanatic]

1 hour ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

So Eriksson is that good then too because he scored in the first game of the pre-season and 2 assists the next game, it's pre-season lots of players can look better then they are in pre-season lol

If you say say so sunshine.

 

[Kanukfanatic]

52 minutes ago, gameburn said:

Our relatively mediocre team/record over the last 2 or 3 years has allowed Edler to get both pp time and time on the ice sufficient to be considered a top-2 on our team.   How good is he, really?  He was horrendously bad only 3 and 4 years ago, and at times since then (just can't track pucks/close off areas anymore, too slow), although like everyone else here, I have to admit he has been genuinely better the last year and a half.  How he has done this at his age is remarkable.  Maybe it's having Stech or Tanev around, maybe it's just a nice late bloom in his game.  Note his plus minus numbers: inferior to Stecher I believe.  At times he wasn't nearly as good as Hutton, who we were happy enough not to re-sign.  

 

If it weren't for his more than occasional point production -- a God send last year at times -- I think he would look  much less essential to this team.  And some of those points connected to Boeser and Pettersson who would have allowed any D to get points on the pp.   

Also, note ppg for Biega: comparable to Edler.  Biega's skating and passion allow him to rush the puck surprisingly well.  And not many points on pp either. If Biega had had Edler's pp time, I suspect their numbers would be identical. 

 

Again: how good is Edler really?  If Myers and Hughes (and next year Juolevi and Woo) do the bulk of the offense, rather than Edler, I think he begins to slip back in the depth chart.  In my opinion, we won't miss him when he retires/leaves at the end of his contract. 

Edler is our only proven legit top pairing D at this point. So agree to disagree on your statement at this point.

[Kanukfanatic]

14 minutes ago, gameburn said:

It is true that the D are the next line of defense out from the goalies.  And in some games they can be the goat.  I know it can seem unfair to target the D, but some D seem to be goats more often than others.  If a forward "misses" he probably doesn't cause an opposition goal, he just misses a chance for a goal, while if a D "misses" he can very likely look like a means to an opposition player killing our team. So, I have to agree with you on your main point.  But suggest too that players that are goats less often are noteworthy.  In my opinion, Stecher outplayed Edler last year for that reason.

Haha....good one. I know you are joking.  

 

You know how I know you are joking? Because only a person that knows absolutely nothing....zero....zilch....about hockey would ever believe that. So good one!!  

 

Edit: Edler = legit top pairing D with size.  Stecher = solid 3rd pairing D. Both the eye test and stats say so.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Kanukfanatic

[canuck2288]

Elder is a beast. Has been since he arrived in Vancouver 

 

the Edler haters are seriously clueless 

 

they rag on Edler constantly yet give Jake a pass constantly. If you want to pick on someone pick on Jake. He has been an underachieving lazy entitled punk since day 1 

 

 

[xereau]

2 minutes ago, gameburn said:

You make a convincing argument.  I may have to rethink my opinion on Edler.  I love stats and hadn't realized he'd performed as well as that last year.

The one issue that haunts me on this is his slowness and the fact that he seems to concede the zone to opposing players easier than many of our D.  It's not just me that sees that is it? 

He was guilty of getting burned in the deep corners. Its coaching, the whole team does it.

 

Collapse to the middle, block passing and shooting lanes with your body and stick.

[VforVasili]

What the HE-double-hockey sticks does all this squabbling and bitching about Edler have to do with the Training Camp thread. 

 

I feel like my brains are oozing out of my eyeballs!

[xereau]

5 minutes ago, canuck2288 said:

Elder is a beast. Has been since he arrived in Vancouver 

 

the Edler haters are seriously clueless 

 

they rag on Edler constantly yet give Jake a pass constantly. If you want to pick on someone pick on Jake. He has been an underachieving lazy entitled punk since day 1 

 

 

He isn't perfect so there's room for growth, if you look at it that way too.

 

He's the best we've ever had at the hardest position to play well at both ends of the ice.

[-Moose]

16 hours ago, shad0w4life said:

Jesus, I’d hate to see what your punishment for JV would be

what's the issue? Leivo looked good on his wing last game. I reckon he'd be a good complimentary fill in until Boeser is ready to go. 

 

Better than wasting a spot on Goldobin

[Jester13]

17 minutes ago, VforVirtanen said:

What the HE-double-hockey sticks does all this squabbling and bitching about Edler have to do with the Training Camp thread. 

 

I feel like my brains are oozing out of my eyeballs!

It's Edler, he shows up in every thread