Justin Trudeau apologizes for wearing brownface during 2001 event at school

[5Fivehole0]

4 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Is it political leanings or just being very young and not the brightest bulb?

Neither of you have said anything of substance, at least Philip responds level headedly and makes me think about what I said.

[HerrDrFunk]

6 minutes ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

Neither of you have said anything of substance, at least Philip responds level headedly and makes me think about what I said.

Yeah! Phil's great for that. 

 

As you can see from my username though, I'm not PhillipBlunt. Try bringing some thoughts and ideas that don't boil down to "I'll blame who I want for the state of the world but everyone else needs to shut up and work".

Edited September 20, 2019 by HerrDrFunk

[PhillipBlunt]

13 minutes ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

Sorry, I guess I got caught up in the verbal onslaught and started lumping opinions. I agree with you, but Trudeaus government has not done any where close to enough.

To help those communities suffering poor standards of drinking water? I agree. Many have stated that the government is moving far too slow on the issue.

Quote

Harper's did nothing. The First Nations communities should have banded together to help each other rather than rely on their past oppressors current governing bodies. I brought up the Federal money because I believe it to be squandered.

I do agree that the various nations across the country should band together, but as in any society, there exists a power struggle. I've heard from people in a few nations whose reservations are situated in the Lower Mainland, that they experience similar issues with the dissemination of federal funding. Those at the top benefit first.

Quote

Well ya... All the time. I am asked to everytime someone says I have male privilege or white privilege. It's insulting.

I personally don't buy into the white privilege narrative, as I've had to work hard for everything I have. That being said, I've not experienced being singled out by police based on prejudice. I still wouldn't claim that that is white privilege though. I would say it has more to do with someone in a position of power being a bigot and not understanding the basics of anthropology and human origins.

 

I've not heard much about male privilege. That being said, when I walk my dog at night, I don't feel exceptionally vulnerable or threatened. Quite a few women I know very much do.

Edited September 20, 2019 by PhillipBlunt

[5Fivehole0]

21 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

To help those communities suffering poor standards of drinking water? I agree. Many have stated that the government is moving far too slow on the issue.

I do agree that the various nations across the country should band together, but as in any society, there exists a power struggle. I've heard from people in a few nations whose reservations are situated in the Lower Mainland, that they experience similar issues with the dissemination of federal funding. Those at the top benefit first.

I personally don't buy into the white privilege narrative, as I've had to work hard for everything I have. That being said, I've not experienced being singled out by police based on prejudice. I still wouldn't claim that that is white privilege though. I would say it has more to do with someone in a position of power being a bigot and not understanding the basics of anthropology and human origins.

 

I've not heard much about male privilege. That being said, when I walk my dog at night, I don't feel exceptionally vulnerable or threatened. Quite a few women I know very much do.

Absolutely. In all forms of government. Conservatives and Liberals alike. But especially particular Chieftans. A good friend of mines dad was the Chief of his band in Chemainus. He explained a lot of the corruption and how some bands see more money than others depending on relationships with the Head Chief or their boards.

 

I won't get into the male privilege but everyone should be cautious at night when walking alone. Especially in todays age.

Edited September 20, 2019 by 5Fivehole0

[ForsbergTheGreat]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

its curious, I do wonder why gen z in particular seems so rigid and unforgiving when it comes to past discretions.

 

It’s not just gen Z. It seems more and more like the left is breaking into two, a center left and the far left. That far left is growing, PC culture is taking over in many facets.

 

This group doesn’t believe in rational discussion, in there opinion no discussions are needed to be had, there minds are made up. It’s truly becoming everyone must have one think. “Think, do, and say as I, or I’ll label you.” “if you have ever done something in the past that I disagree with, ill not only call you out, I’ll try to destroy your life”. 

 

Dave Chappelle’s most recent stand up really hit the nail on the head with this. Kevin Hart says 5 bad tweets, 8 years ago and people try to stop him from hosting the oscars. 

 

The ironic part is the liberals do dip more than their toes into appealing to this far left group (and fair enough they are votes). So it’s quite humorous to see as this type of act, from there great leader comes out, and now they don’t know what do to with themselves.

 

It’s why it’s so disappointing how the cons handled it. This type of issue is not their fight and them pointing fingers yelling shame comes across as very cheap attempt to appeal. All the had to do is take the high ground and let the far left groups crumble from the inside. 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by ForsbergTheGreat

[DarthMelvin]

Apology accepted...

 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

you sound like a fairly young person, who's seen a few things but doesn't really understand what he saw. 

 

Why do you think that because the laws don't openly discriminate anymore (which is a very new thing) that there would be a corresponding instant change in society or culture? you don't seem to realize that cultures don't shift overnight as if clicking on a new app. You also don't seem to realize that people are still living under conditions directly lined to systemic discrimination. Just in the last coulee of years has there been any movement on clean water supplies e.g. You seem to be under the impression that there should be instantaneous change. 

And this would seem to be the crux of the matter IMO. To be fair, I think that's what @5Fivehole0 is (poorly) attempting to present on this issue. It's not untrue that in the year 2019, in Canada, there's very little, if any, remaining in the way of any sort of 'systemic oppression' to any groups. People are generally free to work, live and come and go, as they please, regardless of their race, gender, religion etc. Frankly, it's something we should be celebrating, not attacking each other about.

 

That's not to say there aren't individuals or even groups of individuals who are still racist, bigoted, misogynists etc but by and large, there's basically nothing 'systemic' holding any person back from living a full, free life of whatever opportunity they wish, today. No matter their background.

 

That's however also not to say that we aren't still dealing with the repercussions of our past, decades/generations long, very real,, very harmful, systemic oppression. What happened to First Nations people in this country (as per the discussion in this thread) is appalling. And there's zero chance the effects of that gets erased in the roughly 20'ish years +/- where that's started improving. There's very real, ingrained issues to deal with there from that hangover that we and Mr. 5 cannot ignore. Sadly, I don't think anyone has the foggiest idea of what will actually 'fix' that beyond, hopefully, time (and continuing to push the issue). I'm all ears for any other ideas though.

 

 

 

[Alflives]

55 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

It’s not just gen Z. It seems more and more like the left is breaking into two, a center left and the far left. That far left is growing, PC culture is taking over in many facets.

 

This group doesn’t believe in rational discussion, in there opinion no discussions are needed to be had, there minds are made up. It’s truly becoming everyone must have one think. “Think, do, and say as I, or I’ll label you.” “if you have ever done something in the past that I disagree with, ill not only call you out, I’ll try to destroy your life”. 

 

Dave Chappelle’s most recent stand up really hit the nail on the head with this. Kevin Hart says 5 bad tweets, 8 years ago and people try to stop him from hosting the oscars. 

 

The ironic part is the liberals do dip more than their toes into appealing to this far left group (and fair enough they are votes). So it’s quite humorous to see as this type of act, from there great leader comes out, and now they don’t know what do to with themselves.

 

It’s why it’s so disappointing how the cons handled it. This type of issue is not their fight and them pointing fingers yelling shame comes across as very cheap attempt to appeal. All the had to do is take the high ground and let the far left groups crumble from the inside. 

 

 

 

We often differ in hockey stuff, but we are for sure in agreement in these political/social threads.  We are way too soft as a society.  People make mistakes.  That's how we learn, grow, and mature.  "let he among you without sin cast the first stone."   It's when people don't learn, grow, and mature from their mistakes that is a problem.  

[Tortorella's Rant]

Unreal. JT already apologized. 

 

[bishopshodan]

It's just sad to see.

 

I am against this rally cry about cultural appropriation. If you are doing it respectfully I don't see it as discrimination. Costumes, clothing, make up, arts ...whatever. I am also not lasering off the many different cultures that are represented in my extensive tattoos. 

 

What is sad to me is seeing all these daft political parties acting the same way.

 

I spoke with a hardcore conservative yesterday, a good man who runs a school for under privileged children. He started the convo laughing and pointing fingers at JT. He ended the conversation saying that he hopes a karaoke video he was in during a trip to Russia a long time ago never surfaces. It could affect his lucrative career. He admitted that he wished, not unlike himself, that his party wasn't running around beating this drum like he criticises the left for doing.

 

I wonder what the value of an apology is these days. We will find out I suppose. 

[BPA]

JT would have been around 27-28yr old (still prime drinking and partying age) at the time of this incident.  Even at that age I was doing stupid stuff once in awhile but slowly gaining wisdom and experience as I got older.  There are plenty of things I would apologize for now that I reflect back.  As I got married then had kids, you really understand how many stupid things you did growing up and pray your kids don't make the same stupid mistakes you did.  And hope (and teach) your kids be a better person than you were.

 

JT apologized for his lapse in judgement for this "brownface" incident.  I think it was sincere.  There are things that can be forgiven and things that cannot.  For me, I think this can be forgiven and it's time to move on.

 

Your past does not define you.   

[SabreFan1]

[SabreFan1]

24 minutes ago, BPA said:

Your past does not define you.   

Sure it does.  That's why we keep records of things that people do. 

 

Don't pay your bills at all or on time in the past, you won't get extended credit. 

Commit a sex crime, you have to register as an offender and tell all of your neighbors what you did and that you'll be living in the neighborhood. 

Get convicted of stealing, you'll have a tough time finding a job.

 

Your past most definitely defines you.

 

Is it unfair that Trudeau is getting hammered for something he did well into his adulthood?  No, he was almost 30 years old.  He knew what he did and how it could be taken in the future.

 

I knew Trump was going to be a disaster of a president because I had been following the things he did in his past for a good 25 years or so and knew exactly how he was.

[Shift-4]

5 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

Sure it does.  That's why we keep records of things that people do. 

 

Don't pay your bills at all or on time in the past, you won't get extended credit. 

Commit a sex crime, you have to register as an offender and tell all of your neighbors what you did and that you'll be living in the neighborhood. 

Get convicted of stealing, you'll have a tough time finding a job.

 

Your past most definitely defines you.

 

Is it unfair that Trudeau is getting hammered for something he did well into his adulthood?  No, he was almost 30 years old.  He knew what he did and how it could be taken in the future.

 

I knew Trump was going to be a disaster of a president because I had been following the things he did in his past for a good 25 years or so and knew exactly how he was.

Well said.

We want our leaders showing they have a strong foundation of making good judgement. This is a black mark for JT right now. (pun intended because I couldn't &^@#ing resist, deal with it people)

 

In the grand scheme of his delivery as PM I don't think this is enough for him to step aside. 

But if the trend continues he will be forever known as PM Damage Control  lol

[aGENT]

22 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

I keep seeing people call this Blackface... that's a pretty specific thing and not what he was doing. I'm not saying what he did was 'ok', but it most certainly wasn't turn of the 19th-20th century, minstrel show, caricatures of African American stereotypes.

Edited September 20, 2019 by aGENT

[Dr. Crossbar]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Maybe its the lack of real life experience and live streaming of every second of their lives. 

 

What I believe is more significant - and organically extends into older demographics over time - is a lack of ability to handle/receive criticism and feedback from others.

 

Those two things challenge a person to explore their own actions, beliefs, behavior, and the negative emotions that come with criticism and feedback. It forces you into a place of not only objectivity with yourself but also a place of neutrality to see yourself from another perspective. It's then up to you to filter the information into what's true and useful, and what's not - and that requires awareness.

 

As a result of that process, a person may have to admit or confront hard truths about themselves. Ultimately, it's a positive but you first need to embrace the negative. It's unavoidable. You have to look inward. And that degree of negative really depends on the individual. It's staggering the amount of people who can't handle cricism and feedback.

 

We've largely eliminated it from the mainstream school system and other aspects of society. Rather than have young kids examine their actions, behavior, mistakes, etc, through criticism and feedback, we've made it easier to not experience that type of negativity by rewarding kids for participating.

 

This has also bred a culture of deflecting blame outward and normalizing defensive behavior when criticized and challenged. This is easily testable in the real world.

 

A positive outcome from criticism and feedback is reliant on one's ability to say, "I'm wrong." Look at this board and social media and the amount of people who need to be right at all costs to avoid being wrong.

 

Things like social media enable this even more culturally, and have been now for over a decade. Facebook, for example, is an echo chamber of the same type of thinking largely because a lot of people can't handle criticism, feedback, and being challenged. 

 

And all of this also ties into fear of confrontation as well and one's behavior to avoid confrontation by seeking solace in like minded beliefs rather than being challenged. And there's safety in numbers that shield people from being challenged all the more.

 

Just my .02 ... carry on. 

 

[RUPERTKBD]

3 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

its curious, I do wonder why gen z in particular seems so rigid and unforgiving when it comes to past discretions.

 

People &^@# up, its your intent at the time and how you make up for it that matters most of the time. 

 

Trudeau is almost growing up in front of our in some ways, he clearly was a privileged goofball in his younger years and now its catching up to him. He chose to dress up as much as possible to sell raffle tickets at a school party in 2001. Do we really want to switch to the CPC over that? Does it make May or Singh better candidates? 

It's abundantly simple for me....

 

At this point I'm unconvinced that Scheer takes the problem of Climate Change seriously. In fact, I'm not even sure he even believes in Anthropogenic CC.

 

Although May and Singh certainly do, neither has a chance at forming a government, which leaves the Liberals as the best choice, IMHO. If it has to be a Liberal/Green, or Liberla NDP coalition, I'm fine with that. At this point, it's pretty much like the US situation: Keep Scheer out and get Trump out. Everything else is secondary.

 

Now I know there will be posters ready to chime in on how Anthropogenic CC is a hoax, or exaggerated, but I have a word for people like that:

 

Wrong.

 

3 hours ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

Why didn't the First Nations use that money to build infrastructure? Why didn't they lease out their lands and let white people build on it and then take the land back with the infrastructure already built? Why don't they monetize their lands and use that money to provide water to their people. Take their lives into their own and hands and accept that you are responsible for you and your outcome. Dont put your life in the hands of someone else, especially your oppressors.

 

Also, don't continue to hate those who had nothing to do with said oppression and have voted for change in your favour.

You seem to be under the impression that all first nations act in some sort of concert. In fact, it's actually the opposite.

 

Each first nation is exactly that: A nation. As such, they each make their own determination on how their money gets spent. Unfortunately, there are some that misuse funds, and/or engage in nepotism. (which seems to be the case on the reserve that you were mentioning before)

 

OTOH, many First Nations are run very much like a large corporation, or government. In the area of the world where I live, there are several. And while it's true that the various bands often provide funding for their members to go to school, the vast majority track these expenditures very carefully and the students are expected to maintain grades, or lose their funding. But it's not just "giving money away". This is an investment in the future of the members of that particular nation. Many of those same people put the skills they've learned to work in bettering their community.

 

It's also a fallacy that FN peoples "don't pay taxes". This only applies to people who live on reserve. My wife is a member of the Wet'suwet'en nation, but does not live there. She fills out a tax return every year, just like I do.

 

Finally, "handing money to the Chiefs" is inaccurate. While it might be true in some cases, the current Band system was designed to circumvent the Chiefs. Monies from the government are generally paid to the respective Band Councils, who decide how it is disbursed. In fact, there are cases where the Hereditary Chiefs have been cut out of the governmental process altogether and are mounting legal challenges against the Band Councils.

[SabreFan1]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

I keep seeing people call this Blackface... that's a pretty specific thing and not what he was doing. I'm not saying what he did was 'ok', but it most certainly wasn't turn of the 19th century, minstrel show, caricatures of African American stereotypes.

Blackface is blackface.  He darkened his face with make-up.  Had he just did it for the Aladdin costume, he could get a temporary stupid and/or drunk pass.  But he did it 3 times that we know of.  That's a pattern of stupidity.

 

The media tried to downplay it by calling it "brown"face.  Even they knew what he did was incredibly stupid.

 

Canada deserves a PM who isn't a schmuck.

[RUPERTKBD]

7 minutes ago, Shift-4 said:

Well said.

We want our leaders showing they have a strong foundation of making good judgement. This is a black mark for JT right now. (pun intended because I couldn't &^@#ing resist, deal with it people)

 

In the grand scheme of his delivery as PM I don't think this is enough for him to step aside. 

But if the trend continues he will be forever known as PM Damage Control  lol

Agreed. In any event, I think calls for him to "step down" are pointless.

 

He's not going to do so and in any event, Canadians will be able to decide for themselves if he's committed an unforgivable sin, very soon.

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

Blackface is blackface.  He darkened his face with make-up.  Had he just did it for the Aladdin costume, he could get a temporary stupid and/or drunk pass.  But he did it 3 times that we know of.  That's a pattern of stupidity.

 

The media tried to downplay it by calling it "brown"face.  Even they knew what he did was incredibly stupid.

 

Canada deserves a PM who isn't a schmuck.

Again, not arguing the stupidity or the pattern (or the Schmuck  ) but:

 

blackface

 noun

black·face | \ ˈblak-ˌfās  \

Definition of blackface

 

: dark makeup worn (as by a performer in a minstrel show) in a caricature of the appearance of a black person

 

A costume at a party does not equal that ^^^

Edited September 20, 2019 by aGENT