King Heffy Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Voting Smyl Nominating Bieska Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zimmy Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Voting Luongo Nominating Boudrias 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the grinder Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 voting for smyl ,nominating kurtenbach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Smyl- nominating Snepsts... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Voted Smyl and nominate Don Lever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferlands_Head Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Voting Bertuzzi Nominating Alex Mogilny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbermen Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Voting Smyl Nominate Kurtenbach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morrissex95 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Vote Steamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItalianCanuck1 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Luongo. Nominating Morrison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Voting Luongo There's about 5 or so players I'm torn between on nominating. Will go with Morrison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB5 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 vote Smyl = lifetime Canuck Nominate Don Lever....consistent 20 goal scorer on the early expansion Canucks, this is what makes him great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da_hool Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 18 hours ago, -AJ- said: I'm voting for the Steamer, Stan Smyl. Nominating Morrison again. Morrison was overrated in my opinion. I wonder how much more damage Bertuzzi and Naslund could have done if they had a true #1 center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 42 minutes ago, da_hool said: Morrison was overrated in my opinion. I wonder how much more damage Bertuzzi and Naslund could have done if they had a true #1 center. Morrison was a fine player without a doubt. But why anyone would pick him as the greatest Canuck over Patrik Sundstrom, Cliff Ronning, Barry Pederson, Petri Skriko, Don Lever, Andre Boudrias, etc. is beyond me, and that's limiting it to forwards. Those guys were team captains, led the team in scoring, playoff heroes, etc. On top of which Morrison doesn't really differentiate himself from them in either career or peak season numbers as a Canuck. It's the one name that keeps coming up that really indicates the recency bias to me...and I like Brendan Morrison. I have him on my list. But just for comparison's sake... Career Canuck numbers: Brendan Morrison: 543 games, 393 points (playing with Bert and Naslund) Andre Boudrias: 458 games, 388 points (and was team captain) Don Lever: 593 games, 407 points (and was team captain) I don't really get it. Edited March 25, 2020 by Kevin Biestra 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kevin Biestra said: Morrison was a fine player without a doubt. But why anyone would pick him as the greatest Canuck over Patrik Sundstrom, Cliff Ronning, Barry Pederson, Petri Skriko, Don Lever, Andre Boudrias, etc. is beyond me, and that's limiting it to forwards. Or Broduer, one of three goalies we've had who had more then a cup of coffee with us that's considered one of the top 100 all-time goalies (89 I checked)... that it itself says a lot - not many of our players would make the top 100 by position rankings. Agree with all these guys, Cliff Ronning was a much better player for us and he was used as our second line center mostly and didn't have a world class L winger and the best power forward in the league to pad his stats. Morrison will get his turn, but I wouldn't have him in the top 25... edit: I like your lists but there are a few standouts that I'd have quite a bit higher: in order Ohlund, Kesler, Lumme, Bertuzzi, Jovo, KB3... Ohlund and Kesler should be i the top 7-15. Lumme top 15-20, KB3 25ish....just my thoughts - but I'm 100% behind on the oldies but goodies not getting proper representation. No way should KB3 or Morrison be getting nominations at this point unless you we're only going back as far as the WCE years - it's ridiculous really. Edited March 25, 2020 by IBatch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, IBatch said: Or Broduer, one of three goalies we've had who had more then a cup of coffee with us that's considered one of the top 100 all-time goalies (89 I checked)... that it itself says a lot - not many of our players would make the top 100 by position rankings. Agree with all these guys, Cliff Ronning was a much better player for us and he was used as our second line center mostly and didn't have a world class L winger and the best power forward in the league to pad his stats. Morrison will get his turn, but I wouldn't have him in the top 25... Heh, not too shabby for The King at the Mogilny spot on the all time list, especially if they don't even give him credit for the first half of his career in the WHA going up against Gordie Howe, Bobby Hull, Frank Mahovlich, Mark Howe and Dave Keon, etc. I remember staring at the AVCO Cup at the Hockey Hall of Fame, just in a display with a bunch of forgotten trophies. And thinking how Gordie Howe and Bobby Hull both thought this was worth playing for as much as the Stanley Cup...and now it's thought of as junk, if it's thought of at all. Edited March 25, 2020 by Kevin Biestra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted March 25, 2020 Author Share Posted March 25, 2020 50 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said: Morrison was a fine player without a doubt. But why anyone would pick him as the greatest Canuck over Patrik Sundstrom, Cliff Ronning, Barry Pederson, Petri Skriko, Don Lever, Andre Boudrias, etc. is beyond me, and that's limiting it to forwards. Those guys were team captains, led the team in scoring, playoff heroes, etc. On top of which Morrison doesn't really differentiate himself from them in either career or peak season numbers as a Canuck. It's the one name that keeps coming up that really indicates the recency bias to me...and I like Brendan Morrison. I have him on my list. But just for comparison's sake... Career Canuck numbers: Brendan Morrison: 543 games, 393 points (playing with Bert and Naslund) Andre Boudrias: 458 games, 388 points (and was team captain) Don Lever: 593 games, 407 points (and was team captain) I don't really get it. Also worth considering the eras in which these guys played. Lever and Boudrias both had their career best years with Vancouver in 1974-75, when teams averaged 3.43 goals per game. Morrison had his best years in 2001-02 and 2002-03, when the average team scored 2.62 and 2.65 goals-per game. Different eras factor in. I will grant you that the captaincies are relevant, but Boudrias was only captain for one year and Lever for just two seasons. All that said, I do appreciate that we have apologists for the guys from the 70s--I was worried they'd be left behind in this list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, -AJ- said: Also worth considering the eras in which these guys played. Lever and Boudrias both had their career best years with Vancouver in 1974-75, when teams averaged 3.43 goals per game. Morrison had his best years in 2001-02 and 2002-03, when the average team scored 2.62 and 2.65 goals-per game. Different eras factor in. I will grant you that the captaincies are relevant, but Boudrias was only captain for one year and Lever for just two seasons. All that said, I do appreciate that we have apologists for the guys from the 70s--I was worried they'd be left behind in this list. Era is something I would consider though it would be below captaincies and playoff success, etc. One thing I would consider perhaps most of all is whether, regardless of era, a player was ever the best (or most important) player on the team (or nearly so). In Morrison's case, he was generally competing with Andrew Cassels for a distant 3rd place in team scoring. Sometimes the 4/5 spot. He once topped out at tying for 2nd with a Todd Bertuzzi that missed a significant portion of the season. Gunning for 3rd to 5th in team scoring is still impressive, but it's an achievement that makes me think more of Murray Craven or Martin Gelinas or Darcy Rota or Geoff Courtnall... And all four of those guys went to a Cup final. Guys like Boudrias, Skriko, Pederson, Kurtenbach, Ronning...all led the team in scoring and/or were team MVP, or in Ronning's case, topped out at a healthy 2nd in team scoring (85 points) to Hall of Famer Pavel Bure, and was a bona fide playoff hero. Anyway, I'm not trying to tear down Brendan Morrison. As said, I like him as a person and a player. But since you're (intelligently) bringing in statistics and factors to consider...these are the things I consider myself in such matters. Edited March 25, 2020 by Kevin Biestra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted March 25, 2020 Author Share Posted March 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said: Era is something I would consider though it would be below captaincies and playoff success, etc. One thing I would consider perhaps most of all is whether, regardless of era, a player was ever the best player on the team (or nearly so). In Morrison's case, he was generally competing with Andrew Cassels for a distant 3rd place in team scoring. Sometimes the 4/5 spot. He once topped out at tying for 2nd with a Todd Bertuzzi that missed a significant portion of the season. That's still impressive, but it's an achievement that makes me think more of Murray Craven or Martin Gelinas... Guys like Boudrias, Skriko, Pederson, Kurtenbach, Ronning...all led the team in scoring and/or were team MVP, or in Ronning's case, topped out at a healthy 2nd in team scoring (85 points) to Hall of Famer Pavel Bure, and was a bona fide playoff hero. And I'm leaving out players like Tanti who have managed to squeak into the nominations list already. Anyway, I'm not trying to tear down Brendan Morrison. As said, I like him as a person and a player. But since you're (intelligently) bringing in statistics and factors to consider...these are the things I consider myself in such matters. Great points--Boudrias and Lever were definitely more crucial to the 70s Canucks than Morrison was to the early 2000s teams. I think another point for me would be that although Boudrias and Lever were the best players on the 70s teams, the 70s teams also weren't very good, with the exception of the 1974-75 team. I'd argue Morrison had to compete with much better players for the title of best player than either Boudrias or Lever did. Ronning is an interesting case, as the only reason I don't have him higher is that he didn't play too many games as a Canuck relative to some other top candidates--his numbers are very strong though. I think in the end, I place a lot more value on longevity than most voters, hence why I have guys like Bure, Mogilny, Ronning, and even many of our current young guys (Petey, Hughes, etc.) lower than most people probably do. I appreciate that everyone has different values when it comes to the greatest Canucks of all-time, which is why I left interpretation open to each person. I do have Lever and Boudrias fairly close to Morrison (especially Boudrias) in the end, so I'm really splitting hairs between a few ranks on my list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Voting Lu since I wasn't around to see Steamer (anyone with links for extended highlights of his, btw?) Nominating Morrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, Phil_314 said: Voting Lu since I wasn't around to see Steamer (anyone with links for extended highlights of his, btw?) Nominating Morrison Stan almost winning the series in Game 7 OT in 1989... Vernon's version of McLean's "the save." Stan in the 1982 Cup Final. Nobody was going to speedbag this captain's face. Smyl taking on Jim Kyte, MUCH MUCH bigger than Stan... On top of which, Smyl had 88 points one season and retired as the Canucks' all-time career record holder in every category. Just a general bio video... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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