lmm Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 4 hours ago, Fred65 said: Just for the record. Benning joined the Bruins after the 2006 draft, the 2007 was his first season there and he left prior to the 2014 is 2013 was his last year at the Boston draft table. Here are the Boston selections 2007 - 2013 2007Hamill ----------GP 20Cross -----------GP 3Reul ------------GP 0Goulet ----------GP 0Ostricill ---------GP 0Knackstedt -----GP 02008Colborne -------GP 194Sauve ----------GP 0Hutchinson -----GP 58Arniel -----------GP 1Tremblay -------GP 0Goggin ----------GP 02009Caron -----------GP 157Button ----------GP 0Macdermid ------GP 10Randall ----------GP 0Sexton ----------GP 02010Seguin ----------GP 396Knight ----------GP 0Spooner --------GP 90Cunningham ---GP 40Florek -----------GP 0McIntyre --------GP 0Trotman ---------GP 0Chudinov --------GP 02011 Hamilton --------GP 217Khocklachev ----GP 9Camera ---------GP 0Ferlin ------------GP 0O'Gara -----------GP 0Vorden -----------GP 02012Subban ----------GP 1Gryxelchek ------GP 0Griffith -----------GP 32Payne ------------GP 0Benning --------- GP 0Hargrove ---------GP 02013Arnesson ---------GP 0Cehlarik ----------GP 0Fitzgerald --------GP 0Blidh -------------GP 0Sherman ---------GP 0Dempsey ---------GP 0 Just for the record/ I know this will upset some folks but before you get ticked off with me check it out yourself what are those GP numbers? they are not games played in the NHL 2012 alone Subban 66 Grzelcyk 197 Griffith 79 Benning 248 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zfetch Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) [redacted mean comment] Edited June 10, 2020 by Zfetch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Best of luck to Brudd Jacket! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 6 hours ago, Crabcakes said: I look at the team management structure more like a corporation. The Aquilini family would be the Board of Directors. Francesco Aquilini would be the Chairman of the Board and the father, Luigi is the real boss. Canuck management runs the team and comes up with strategy but the Board has to approve. So when Linden presented his plan to ownership, I don't think they relished the idea of drafting and developing indefinitely like the Winnipeg Jets have done because face it, that team was rebuilding while they were still in Atlanta. I think that we have to understand how a family real estate empire is managed in terms of the decision making process to gain perspective on what happened next. My understanding of Trumps "empire" is that everything went through him and he had a number of key advisors. In other words, the classic organizational structure is not really observed. I haven't heard anything to tell me that the Aquilini company isn't structured the same way except the brothers all work together and Francesco makes the final call on things. The other thing was that I felt all along that Linden was hired to be a PR guy. To be the face of the franchise and to speak with the media and perhaps to be an interface between the GM and ownership. Calling him President was just a nice title to the family, especially since he had next to no experience and none running a team. It turned out that with his feet held to the fire by the jackals known as the Vancouver sports media, he didn't hold up too well. So I wouldn't be surprised if Francesco asked Benning directly, if he thought that he could make the team more competitive sooner than Linden's plan. He wouldn't have considered that he was doing anything wrong. And of course, Benning can't tell a lie and if you ask him a direct question, he's going to answer it.....so he said yes and went to work trying to figure out how. Of course, Linden did hire Benning. And even though he was light on experience, he still had the right of approval if he decided to exercise it. Not necessarily. And Linden felt betrayed by his old buddy. Having said all that, this is a plausible explanation but that is all. I don't think that we're ever going to hear the real story. Think this is fairly close to how it all went down. Linden was hired to be ‘the face of the franchise’... the person fans/ticket holders could relate to and would trust far more than any Aqualini or new GM... as Ibatch rightly said ‘as a human shield’. I think, he knew that himself as well.... After that it becomes muddled with who wanted what, when and why... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putgolzin Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 3 hours ago, spook007 said: Think this is fairly close to how it all went down. Linden was hired to be ‘the face of the franchise’... the person fans/ticket holders could relate to and would trust far more than any Aqualini or new GM... as Ibatch rightly said ‘as a human shield’. I think, he knew that himself as well.... After that it becomes muddled with who wanted what, when and why... Agreed - that all feels pretty close to my guesses on how things unfolded. Except I don’t think Linden was ever meant to be merely a figure-head, not from his perspective or anyone in the organization. He’s a serious, respectable and thoughtful hockey man. Truthfully, his long-approach still would have been the better approach if Petey and Hughes weren’t making Benning look so correct. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, nzan said: Agreed - that all feels pretty close to my guesses on how things unfolded. Except I don’t think Linden was ever meant to be merely a figure-head, not from his perspective or anyone in the organization. He’s a serious, respectable and thoughtful hockey man. Truthfully, his long-approach still would have been the better approach if Petey and Hughes weren’t making Benning look so correct. Cheers Nzan. Without doubt and at the start they probably wished for a long lasting tenure with Linden leading the franchise. Still if one of the most loved and famous Canucks in history is asked to lead the franchise as a rookie, I do believe, in the eyes of the owner, one of the big advantages gained by this, would be some leeway, they might not otherwise have obtained. Think Linden himself would understand that, and rightly so as he earned that right during his playing career... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 10 hours ago, lmm said: what are those GP numbers? they are not games played in the NHL 2012 alone Subban 66 Grzelcyk 197 Griffith 79 Benning 248 Games played for the team that drafted the player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Crabcakes said: Games played for the team that drafted the player still no, Spooner 253 Subban 2 Grzelcyk 197 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Crabcakes said: Games played for the team that drafted the player Cheers CC. Edited June 10, 2020 by spook007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairPM Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Crabcakes said: Games played for the team that drafted the player how is that # a meaningful assessment? if the goal is drafting NHL talent, shouldn't the measure be # of games (and stats for that measure but stats cab be deceptive). Likewise, if Benning was AGM at the time, does that mean our current drafting sucess is because of Weisbrod? If that is the case, shouldn't we be happy Weisbrod stayed and not make this big deal about Brackett (of course i'm being facetious). I honestly don't understand the logic behind these #s. They look like a weak attempt to prove a point. i.e. showing ONLY the # of games played for the team that drafted them AND implying Benning had sole decision making in making the draft because he was the AGM (i.e. this is Benning's draft record while with the Bruins). This is not to say that Benning is a draft guru or a great GM, every GM makes mistakes. Only pointing out what seems to be flawed logic... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, coastal.view said: what?? demanding or what ? the nucks may have won the best player in 2 recent drafts by selecting 5 or lower this is magical shrewd this makes up for a lot more then oj oj may still work out, so your disappointment in him is premature as well Let’s just say JB and crew learned their lesson and hasn’t since ignored the BPA (MT - not a big fan but sure I would be if he was on our team as well, and during draft day cheered when he landed on our lap - then nearly threw the remote when we didn’t take him). Sorry Coastal. Sure their is a SLIM chance he will still make it and make and impact, but I’ve watched him with my own eyes and he wasn’t even the best defenseman on his own team ( Brisbois was does that mean he’s going to be a top four guy soon?). Given his draft position he’s getting all the PP time in the world to pad his stats and 5 x 5 he’s ho-hum at the AHL level. Temper your expectations. I hope I’m wrong. He’s a work in progress but as of right now is already on every bust list available (check it out - not a joke). So yeah - picking EP and then QHs and then Podz is definitely making up for OJ. Edit: What year was he drafted again? And what year is it now? Edited June 10, 2020 by IBatch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 35 minutes ago, FairPM said: how is that # a meaningful assessment? if the goal is drafting NHL talent, shouldn't the measure be # of games (and stats for that measure but stats cab be deceptive). Likewise, if Benning was AGM at the time, does that mean our current drafting sucess is because of Weisbrod? If that is the case, shouldn't we be happy Weisbrod stayed and not make this big deal about Brackett (of course i'm being facetious). I honestly don't understand the logic behind these #s. They look like a weak attempt to prove a point. i.e. showing ONLY the # of games played for the team that drafted them AND implying Benning had sole decision making in making the draft because he was the AGM (i.e. this is Benning's draft record while with the Bruins). This is not to say that Benning is a draft guru or a great GM, every GM makes mistakes. Only pointing out what seems to be flawed logic... I don't know where this whole "draft guru" thing started to be honest. Benning came in with a strong scouting background with 13 years or so directly in that field, which can't be said for many GMs here. Benning feels strongly about the draft and has implemented changes here to reflect that and suddenly or team has improved in this area. No one defending Benning has called him a "guru", but on the other hand, many are considering Brackett as the sole key piece to the draft that will cripple this department with him leaving. When they're called out on it, they project the way they view things the other way and criticize opposing views on this basis. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 19 hours ago, Fred65 said: Just for the record. Benning joined the Bruins after the 2006 draft, the 2007 was his first season there and he left prior to the 2014 is 2013 was his last year at the Boston draft table. Here are the Boston selections 2007 - 2013 2007Hamill ----------GP 20Cross -----------GP 3Reul ------------GP 0Goulet ----------GP 0Ostricill ---------GP 0Knackstedt -----GP 02008Colborne -------GP 194Sauve ----------GP 0Hutchinson -----GP 58Arniel -----------GP 1Tremblay -------GP 0Goggin ----------GP 02009Caron -----------GP 157Button ----------GP 0Macdermid ------GP 10Randall ----------GP 0Sexton ----------GP 02010Seguin ----------GP 396Knight ----------GP 0Spooner --------GP 90Cunningham ---GP 40Florek -----------GP 0McIntyre --------GP 0Trotman ---------GP 0Chudinov --------GP 02011 Hamilton --------GP 217Khocklachev ----GP 9Camera ---------GP 0Ferlin ------------GP 0O'Gara -----------GP 0Vorden -----------GP 02012Subban ----------GP 1Gryxelchek ------GP 0Griffith -----------GP 32Payne ------------GP 0Benning --------- GP 0Hargrove ---------GP 02013Arnesson ---------GP 0Cehlarik ----------GP 0Fitzgerald --------GP 0Blidh -------------GP 0Sherman ---------GP 0Dempsey ---------GP 0 Just for the record/ I know this will upset some folks but before you get ticked off with me check it out yourself Look at our drafting over the same time period. We would gladly welcome this draft board. Plus look at Buffalo's draft record where Benning was more directly involved (their GM at that time had no scouting experience). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 16 hours ago, lmm said: what are those GP numbers? they are not games played in the NHL 2012 alone Subban 66 Grzelcyk 197 Griffith 79 Benning 248 You're right! I don't know for a fact but I think the person that compiled the list wrote it before some graduated to the NHL, date wise. How ever to the point I wouldn't list that list as all star material which ever way you look at it. Benning is in Edmontonon a defence starved team for the present but likely on his way out and he's the best of the bunch. There's nothing there that strikes me a home run selection. I keep hearing about Benning being the master of the draft but can't find any collaborating evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairPM Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Fred65 said: You're right! I don't know for a fact but I think the person that compiled the list wrote it before some graduated to the NHL, date wise. How ever to the point I wouldn't list that list as all star material which ever way you look at it. Benning is in Edmontonon a defence starved team for the present but likely on his way out and he's the best of the bunch. There's nothing there that strikes me a home run selection. I keep hearing about Benning being the master of the draft but can't find any collaborating evidence uh... are you serious? 1) Petterson 2) Hughes 3) Boeser I could go on and on... but we already have about 5+ years of drafting data. Keep in mind that most draftees take about 3 years before they actually play their first game. The actual # of players making and sticking in the NHL will be much larger a few years from now. How many draft picks/NHL players are ppl going to ignore to confirm their bias? At the end of the day, I'm just grateful for the high end picks we have. Edited June 10, 2020 by FairPM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Fred65 said: You're right! I don't know for a fact but I think the person that compiled the list wrote it before some graduated to the NHL, date wise. How ever to the point I wouldn't list that list as all star material which ever way you look at it. Benning is in Edmontonon a defence starved team for the present but likely on his way out and he's the best of the bunch. There's nothing there that strikes me a home run selection. I keep hearing about Benning being the master of the draft but can't find any collaborating evidence No one is saying this. He has a strong scouting background on his resume. His scouting experience comes from his time in Buffalo in which you've omitted that could be your corroborating evidence. When you draft, if you find NHL players especially in the later rounds, it's a success. That list may not be all stars, but they are NHL players that will likely get to a 300 game threshold (Benning and Grzelcyk). You want all star talent, then look at guys like Seguin and Hamilton. Now you might say these are top 10 picks (top 2 for Seguin) so they're easy picks, but I'd suggest that they made the right picks at those spots like we did (arguably) with the majority of our picks to date. Look at Philly taking Patrick with a top 2 pick. So no they didn't get a ton of players during that time period in Boston, but they got about a player per draft overall which is better than what we did in that time frame. Now Benning is the top guy and can fully put in his input towards scouting and the draft and we make a stark improvement. Coincidence? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, lmm said: still no, Spooner 253 Subban 2 Grzelcyk 197 Ha ha ha....sorry, didn't check.... Wikipedia does that and I have no idea why because it's not that useful to my mind. Some of the numbers (4) match Wiki while most do not. Maybe @Fred65 will tell us his source. Edited June 11, 2020 by Crabcakes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, FairPM said: how is that # a meaningful assessment? if the goal is drafting NHL talent, shouldn't the measure be # of games (and stats for that measure but stats cab be deceptive). Likewise, if Benning was AGM at the time, does that mean our current drafting sucess is because of Weisbrod? If that is the case, shouldn't we be happy Weisbrod stayed and not make this big deal about Brackett (of course i'm being facetious). I honestly don't understand the logic behind these #s. They look like a weak attempt to prove a point. i.e. showing ONLY the # of games played for the team that drafted them AND implying Benning had sole decision making in making the draft because he was the AGM (i.e. this is Benning's draft record while with the Bruins). This is not to say that Benning is a draft guru or a great GM, every GM makes mistakes. Only pointing out what seems to be flawed logic... It's not, that's what Wikipedia does 7 hours ago, spook007 said: Cheers CC. Oops.... Edited June 11, 2020 by Crabcakes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attila Umbrus Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 5 hours ago, theo5789 said: Look at our drafting over the same time period. We would gladly welcome this draft board. Plus look at Buffalo's draft record where Benning was more directly involved (their GM at that time had no scouting experience). I was just gonna say, Benning was assistant GM in Boston, he didn’t run the scouting program there. His Buffalo days are where he gets most of his praise when he was their head scout. He unearthed some low round gems like we are doing now...people say Brackett was the reason for all the NCAA talent coming through, but Benning has hawked on the NCAA and USHL for years, way before Judd. Just sayin. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 7 hours ago, theo5789 said: I don't know where this whole "draft guru" thing started to be honest. Benning came in with a strong scouting background with 13 years or so directly in that field, which can't be said for many GMs here. Benning feels strongly about the draft and has implemented changes here to reflect that and suddenly or team has improved in this area. No one defending Benning has called him a "guru", but on the other hand, many are considering Brackett as the sole key piece to the draft that will cripple this department with him leaving. When they're called out on it, they project the way they view things the other way and criticize opposing views on this basis. Not only is Jim a Draft Guru, he is also a Magician As is, " not to worry about the cap issues, Jim will work his Magic on draft day and he will trade Loui, Sutter, Baer for picks and all of our new guys will have roster spots and money for Petey, Quinn and a new top 2 defenseman" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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