Do Canuck fans think Benning is a great GM?

[RogersTowell]

He's a good GM, but not great.  He's very good at the draft, whether that's because of the scouts or not is irrelevant - the buck stops with the GM and he hires the scouts.  He's decent with trades and has done a pretty good job overall.  I terms of free agents, this has been his weakness.  He's paid too much for too little in return.  To a certain extent he was handcuffed.  There's been some evidence of pressure from management early on to go one more try with the Sedins and that lead to LE's now infamously bad contract (him or Lucic was pretty much the option).  He overpaid for Beagle to a certain extent, although he may have had to.  Beagle hasn't been terrible here, just not up to the expectations of the contract.  He's been a stellar PKer, a solid shutdown C and very good on the draw.  Sutter has also not lived up to the contract, but again has been far from useless.  Both players were brought in to shield the young players from some of the hard minutes and they've basically done that but with little else for all of that cash.

 

But what has he done for us lately?  JT Miller was a brilliant move.  This off season has been pretty good.  Schmidt is a bit of an upgrade on Tanev, who was very good in the d zone but did nothing offensively.  He didn't sign Markstrom, which likely dodged a bullet long term (too much term on that contract - Calgary will likely regret it).  He didn't sign Stecher, who was a fan favourite and a decent player, but did he really fit in to what we're trying to do here?  He got Holtby for a reasonable price.  He hired Ian Clark, which has turned out very well.

 

He's far from perfect, but then again who isn't?  Looking around the league I'd place him in the top 10 of the 30+ GMs out there, which is better than we've had in a long time in that job.  He saw what Boston built and how they did it.  We're definitely trending well.

[Ballisticsports.]

4 hours ago, Baggins said:

You asked "Why are you and others crediting GM’s for their scouts hard work, and basing  if they are a good GM or not  based mostly on drafting?" You don't seem to think GM's are involved in the draft process. I disagree. In Benning's case I think he's very involved. But I also questioned the difference between the four years Nonis was involved compared to the six years Gillis was GM. The scouting department saw little change in that time yet the drafting between the two GM's had very different results. Nonis scoring several hits and Gillis a boatload of futility. Drafting and developing well can play a big role in keeping costs down. When you hire a GM to go into a rebuild how he does drafting will play a significant role in him keeping his job.

I see you never re-read my post, It wasn't intended into who is better,

[IBatch]

13 hours ago, RogersTowell said:

He's a good GM, but not great.  He's very good at the draft, whether that's because of the scouts or not is irrelevant - the buck stops with the GM and he hires the scouts.  He's decent with trades and has done a pretty good job overall.  I terms of free agents, this has been his weakness.  He's paid too much for too little in return.  To a certain extent he was handcuffed.  There's been some evidence of pressure from management early on to go one more try with the Sedins and that lead to LE's now infamously bad contract (him or Lucic was pretty much the option).  He overpaid for Beagle to a certain extent, although he may have had to.  Beagle hasn't been terrible here, just not up to the expectations of the contract.  He's been a stellar PKer, a solid shutdown C and very good on the draw.  Sutter has also not lived up to the contract, but again has been far from useless.  Both players were brought in to shield the young players from some of the hard minutes and they've basically done that but with little else for all of that cash.

 

But what has he done for us lately?  JT Miller was a brilliant move.  This off season has been pretty good.  Schmidt is a bit of an upgrade on Tanev, who was very good in the d zone but did nothing offensively.  He didn't sign Markstrom, which likely dodged a bullet long term (too much term on that contract - Calgary will likely regret it).  He didn't sign Stecher, who was a fan favourite and a decent player, but did he really fit in to what we're trying to do here?  He got Holtby for a reasonable price.  He hired Ian Clark, which has turned out very well.

 

He's far from perfect, but then again who isn't?  Looking around the league I'd place him in the top 10 of the 30+ GMs out there, which is better than we've had in a long time in that job.  He saw what Boston built and how they did it.  We're definitely trending well.

More or less how I feel.   A great GM?  Not yet, but like his drafting, he’s above average for sure.   GM of the year wasn’t around when Quin was doing his thing but figure like MG he’d probably have one of those.   Butcher trade after the Linden tree, was for sure a high water mark in one that involved multiple players coming back like the Linden trade.   Burke to me is probably the single most important executive the franchise has ever had given he was Quins right hand man and the guy who found the documentation that legalized us drafting Bure (although he suggested we didn’t take him anyways - “that’s a small body gentleman “ thing ha ha. ).    Three Hat Pat is still the greatest though.   Drafted Linden and Bure, Nedved who became important, and really Stajonav did too given Naslund is a top three app-time lopsided trade.   Still holds the record for most first all star selections (3)...which happens to be more then Stajanov scored goals ha ha.    Best trader for sure.   Butcher was awesome, even Nedved turned out to get us key pieces for our run to game 7.   
 

JB has a ways to go, but at this point he’s deservedly in the discussion for top 5 all-time.   Quin, Burke, Milford, JB/Gillis...something like that...and moving up. 
 

Edit:  For JB to move up he needs to make a few more Schmidt/JT Miller deals.   Even one would help put him into the top three.  As far as best drafting GM - which to me goes hand and hand with best rebuilding GM,  JB does deserve some props for sure.   We won’t know how many props for five years though unfortunately.   Quin is still the greatest, he took a mediocre roster and created a team that almost got an automatic bye to the second round.   7 playoffs...and the most memorable moments.    JB has a long way to go to challenge both Quin and MG as far as team successes go. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by IBatch

[Kevin Biestra]

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

JB has a ways to go, but at this point he’s deservedly in the discussion for top 5 all-time.   Quin, Burke, Milford, JB/Gillis...something like that...and moving up. 

 

Edit:  For JB to move up he needs to make a few more Schmidt/JT Miller deals.   Even one would help put him into the top three.  As far as best drafting GM - which to me goes hand and hand with best rebuilding GM,  JB does deserve some props for sure.   We won’t know how many props for five years though unfortunately.   Quin is still the greatest, he took a mediocre roster and created a team that almost got an automatic bye to the second round.   7 playoffs...and the most memorable moments.    JB has a long way to go to challenge both Quin and MG as far as team successes go. 

 

Yeah Milford is a badly overlooked GM and a name that doesn't come up as much as it should.

 

A 5th rounder for Moe Lemay and Richard Brodeur.

 

Glen Hanlon in the 3rd round 1977, Murray Bannerman in the 4th round.  That's goalie drafting.  1978 - Bill Derlago, Curt Fraser, Stan Smyl in the first three rounds.  1979 - Rick Vaive, Brent Ashton, Dirk Graham.  That's all before 1980 even and leaving out 1980s drafting and the cup run.

[Baggins]

16 hours ago, ba;;isticsports said:

I see you never re-read my post, It wasn't intended into who is better,

Did my post actually make claims as to who is better? Did you read my post?

[IBatch]

23 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Yeah Milford is a badly overlooked GM and a name that doesn't come up as much as it should.

 

A 5th rounder for Moe Lemay and Richard Brodeur.

 

Glen Hanlon in the 3rd round 1977, Murray Bannerman in the 4th round.  That's goalie drafting.  1978 - Bill Derlago, Curt Fraser, Stan Smyl in the first three rounds.  1979 - Rick Vaive, Brent Ashton, Dirk Graham.  That's all before 1980 even and leaving out 1980s drafting and the cup run.

Really it’s hard to argue at this time he’s the best drafter we’ve ever had given the sample size.   Yes he had some misses in the first round - but those “misses” were great players in their own right (Garth Butcher is the guy I’m talking about), played almost 1000 games, and was considered one hell of a defensive defenseman, nasty as they come, you don’t get a name like “the Strangler” for being a pussy cat.   Milford at this point is the best drafter we’ve ever had.   And he went to the final, and made some really great moves as you pointed out to get us to the final.   No King Richard, no magic period.   Love to see a 5’7” goalie these days.   Let along one wearing 10 inch wide pads that gained as much as 20lbs or water weight over a game.    Those guys (including Vernon and even Irbe later) were incredible athletes.    Wonder how good Price or Markstrom or Vasilesky would manage with the same equipment with no butterfly.   Different era.  Different sticks.   Still some guys could blast it over 100 mph ... Hull (The original) was clocked at 120 using a radar gun using a wooden stick.   Bugs me a lot when people say athletes are way better now.   They aren’t.   Imagine a 6 team league and who would make the cut?  Even a 12 team league.  Right now there would be zero middle six guys, zero middle four D’s and the top six-twelve goalies in the game.  It’s simply ridiculous.   Even with population increases. 

[smokes]

The best thing he ever did was draft Boeser, Pettersson and Hughes and trade for Miller. Other than that he signed Eriksson, Sutter (foundational piece) and a lot of other terrible contracts, he drafted Virtanen and Juolevi when there were better players on the board. He forced out Linden and Brackett. Made the playoffs once in 5 years. He took too much time screwing around with the Coyotes and his free agents bolted.  Far from a great GM. I would say he is adequate at best.

Edited October 22, 2020 by smokes

[bree2]

2 minutes ago, smokes said:

The best thing he ever did was draft Boeser, Pettersson and Hughes and trade for Miller. Other than that he signed Eriksson, Sutter (foundational piece) and a lot of other terrible contracts, he drafted Virtanen and Juolevi when there were better players on the board. He forced out Linden and Brackett. Made the playoffs once in 5 years. Far from a great GM. I would say he is adequate. 

you say he forced out LInden and Brackett, do you have a source for that, also what about Gaudette? i would say he was an okay pick, getting Schmit seems pretty good, and Myers was not a terrible contract.  overall i think Benning hasn't done too bad considering how well the team played for each other during the play offs.  

[smokes]

1 hour ago, bree2 said:

you say he forced out LInden and Brackett, do you have a source for that, also what about Gaudette? i would say he was an okay pick, getting Schmit seems pretty good, and Myers was not a terrible contract.  overall i think Benning hasn't done too bad considering how well the team played for each other during the play offs.  

Yeah, I have a great source for Linden and Brackett. Me and my memory. I remember the situation well and I remember what everyone was saying about the situation so I can maintain my opinion of Benning forcing out Linden and Brackett. And what about Gaudette? He is a roster player on the third line who is easily replaceable. If you are going to give Benning a lot of credit on that then you can say Nonis was a better GM then Benning since he got Edler in the third round and Alex Burrows as a free agent. Schmidt hasn't played a game for the Canucks so it's too early to say he was a home run and you are right Myers was not a terrible contract. It's just a really, really bad one.  

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, smokes said:

Yeah, I have a great source for Linden and Brackett. Me and my memory. I remember the situation well and I remember what everyone was saying about the situation so I can maintain my opinion of Benning forcing out Linden and Brackett. And what about Gaudette? He is a roster player on the third line who is easily replaceable. If you are going to give Benning a lot of credit on that then you can say Nonis was a better GM then Benning since he got Edler in the third round and Alex Burrows as a free agent. Schmidt hasn't played a game for the Canucks so it's too early to say he was a home run and you are right Myers was not a terrible contract. It's just a really, really bad one.  

Wow tell us how you really feel.   Don’t forget to add Nonis worst draft, in the top three over the past 50 years but yes that was a doozy.  Also got Hansen and Mike Brown and Schneider that year, overall a top three draft for us, the rest vanilla at best.   Can’t pick on his drafting without looking at the other 10 GMs we’ve had, at this point only Milford lines up well with JB, and of course we won’t know for sure for another ten years to properly compare with him.    But carry on.   

[smokes]

54 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Wow tell us how you really feel.   Don’t forget to add Nonis worst draft, in the top three over the past 50 years but yes that was a doozy.  Also got Hansen and Mike Brown and Schneider that year, overall a top three draft for us, the rest vanilla at best.   Can’t pick on his drafting without looking at the other 10 GMs we’ve had, at this point only Milford lines up well with JB, and of course we won’t know for sure for another ten years to properly compare with him.    But carry on.   

I just feel we give Benning way too much credit for his hits as compared to his misses in the draft. Benning gave us Pettersson, Hughes and Boeser but at the same time, he got us Virtanen and Juolevi. Even though there were clearly better choices on the board. 

[IBatch]

33 minutes ago, smokes said:

I just feel we give Benning way too much credit for his hits as compared to his misses in the draft. Benning gave us Pettersson, Hughes and Boeser but at the same time, he got us Virtanen and Juolevi. Even though there were clearly better choices on the board. 

Just like Quin missed on Jagr, and drafted Stajanov and Antoski back-to back..or Burke got us Allen and that Umberger...or Milford drafted Butcher instead of possible HHOFers still on the board...it happens.   His hit/miss ratio is within the acceptable range, above average factually but again carry on.   OJ might be a miss, JV has almost played enough NHL games to meet expectations scouts set out for his draft spot.   
 

And yes quality matters.   Finding the best at five is a great pick, especially given he wasn’t in most ten lists, and QHs might have fallen in our laps but wasn’t at all considered a clear cut best available D - Bouchard and Dobson were both ranked higher on some lists...

Edited October 22, 2020 by IBatch

[Bad_BOI_pete]

10 hours ago, smokes said:

The best thing he ever did was draft Boeser, Pettersson and Hughes and trade for Miller. Other than that he signed Eriksson, Sutter (foundational piece) and a lot of other terrible contracts, he drafted Virtanen and Juolevi when there were better players on the board. He forced out Linden and Brackett. Made the playoffs once in 5 years. He took too much time screwing around with the Coyotes and his free agents bolted.  Far from a great GM. I would say he is adequate at best.

you have to sign free agents, each and every year. do you have any suggestions of other players he should have signed instead? instead of erikkson maybe we should have signed james neal or milan lucic? what about sutter, any suggestions? what about tyler myers, who instead of him? if its not the players value that are at question is it just the term and money amount? even i a lowly fan understand there are many intagibles whith each player that affects thier value come free agency. both sutter and beagle won a cup, they are proven winners. it is proven that having many leaders on a team increases your winning percentage. The owner wanted us to be winning right away, Jims free agents helped us win more games. the proof is in the pudding, because aquaman resigned him.

 

another reason that may effect the term and AAV of each players UFA contract is playing time, tax brackets, team record and outlook, PP and SH oppurtunities, the city itself, travel schedule, the players role (Top 6, bottom 6) how close the city is to family. these are all factors that effect contracts. Vancouver falls at the bottom on some of these factors, which the most notable of the bunch is the tax bracket. I would argue that vancouver falls very low comparedly to other the other teams in many of these factors.

that being said it would not suprise me if Jim had to influence UFAS with better term, AAV and NTC/NMC.

 

10 years ago gillis was handing out 4 million dollar contacts to our top 4 the ceiling was 59.4 million in 2010. 4 million dollars with a 59.4 million ceiling is nearly the exact same ratio as myers 6million dollar cap hit. the reason you notice it more with Jim compared to gillis is largley due to the cap being 50% higher than 2010. the larger the cap ceiling the larger the disparity will be regardless of  who our GM is. this is the reason that a canadian team hasnt won a cup since 1993

 

virtanen, has played a lot of nhl games and is improving, definitely not a bust.  as for juolevi, the book is still out on him, some believe he will be a top 4 defender for us. i agree, that there was better players available at juolevi's spot but he was considered the best defenceman at that position. we were in desperate need for defenseman that year. Jim does not have a crystal ball, he will sometimes choose a player that turns out was not the best player available. to expect that Jim always choose the best player in hindsight is ludicrous.

 

I like Jim, i think he has done a amazing job for us to compete. Until his free agents hamper our ability to sign our RFA's then i see no harm at all.

[Bad_BOI_pete]

1 hour ago, smokes said:

I just feel we give Benning way too much credit for his hits as compared to his misses in the draft. Benning gave us Pettersson, Hughes and Boeser but at the same time, he got us Virtanen and Juolevi. Even though there were clearly better choices on the board. 

not every player performs to thier expectations,  there are even 2 players picked higher than jake who have had lesser careers. a 40% percent failure rate in the top 5. we are incredibly priviliged to have 4/5 of our first rounders playing on our team. likely by the end of the year we will have all 6/6 players selected in the first round on our team, its actually amazing.

[Tracksuit]

He’s An average Gm at best. 

The same ones that think HeS great  would be laughing at him if he were doing The same thing  on a different team. 

 

 

 

[appleboy]

He dose some things really well. I also think he is improving.  

The buisness side of things is ,or was Jim's weakness.  Contracts and cap management.  I see steady improvement with this side of his skills.  You can't rush things. There is no way to fix a teams problems by just throwing money at it. Not in todays NHL.

Your cap structure needs to be planned out years in advance. 

[dank.sinatra]

Drafting 9/10

Trading 7/10

Signings 2/10

60 percent overall. Definitely not great.

 

[Aladeen]

Greatest. GM. Of Anything. Ever. 

[Lazurus]

On 10/20/2020 at 1:21 AM, ShawnAntoski said:

Jim Benning 2014-present.  2 playoff appearances six years ha ha ha

Don't forget the most losing seasons in a row, most losses by any Van GM, worst win/loss record, most top ten picks, most 1rst round picks, most blown 1rst round picks, most money ever spent, most clause contracts ever given out, and a fluke to get a second playoff appearance, the league had to add 8 additional teams for a playin round.

BTW

Gillis traded for

Markstrom - mvp

Signed Tanev - undrafted - top 4 dman

Got the Sedins to take 2 million less each

Traded for Gaudette's draft spot - #5

Drafted Hodgson and Horvat (off the board), Hodgson was very close to rookie of the year and only had to quit because of a serious disease.

Gillis scouting staff were instrumental in the 2014 draft, probably the best Canucks draft in decades

Gillis had over 5 million cap space at the end of every year without the cap increase. Benning inherited 13 million in cap space

 

Benning's win loss record - 479 games - 211 wins - 268 losses, win percentage - .440

Money spent - Around 468 million dollars - $468,000,000.00

9 clause contracts

And counting.

 

The only greatness here is how he has managed to keep his job when no other GM's in the league have done so with such a bad record.

 

[Canuckfanforlife82]

How many more years does Benning get? He’s been here six years. That is a long time without really giving the fans much in terms of playoffs or championships. So how many more years does he get? It just feels this franchise will stick with him because he does whatever ownership wants him to do.