Do Canuck fans think Benning is a great GM?

[Baggins]

53 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

They look worse cause of Covid. They'd be easier to move out if the cap went up like everyone expected it to. But now no one has cap, those that do are being especially careful not to spend it cause there's no telling when the Cap will actually go up again. The VGK can't convince anyone to take Flower at 50% retained for a 2nd round pick. They can't move a Cup champion at 50% retained. Why? Cause cap is that valuable right now.

 

Benning signed those contracts thinking the cap would go up and if need be they can be moved to a team with some minor assets. There are analysts saying Benning has been talking other GMs ears off since the playoffs ended about moving out cap. They are only anchors cause Covid took a dump on the world and everyone is penny pinching their cap space cause it's more valuable than it's ever been. I truly believe if Covid did not happen we could have found a buyer for some of those contracts.

Not just cap but income. There's currently no plan for attending games this next season meaning all teams take a pretty good hit on revenue. For most it means losing considerable money. Belts are being tightened.

[steviewonder20]

4 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

They look worse cause of Covid. They'd be easier to move out if the cap went up like everyone expected it to. But now no one has cap, those that do are being especially careful not to spend it cause there's no telling when the Cap will actually go up again. The VGK can't convince anyone to take Flower at 50% retained for a 2nd round pick. They can't move a Cup champion at 50% retained. Why? Cause cap is that valuable right now.

 

Benning signed those contracts thinking the cap would go up and if need be they can be moved to a team with some minor assets. There are analysts saying Benning has been talking other GMs ears off since the playoffs ended about moving out cap. They are only anchors cause Covid took a dump on the world and everyone is penny pinching their cap space cause it's more valuable than it's ever been. I truly believe if Covid did not happen we could have found a buyer for some of those contracts.

I agree JB thought the cap would go up, but even when these contracts were signed, folks here and pundits thought he paid too much for bottom six players. If we lose all our UFAs, can’t land OEL and don’t dump any of our anchor contracts, JB isn't looking like a genius GM. I had hoped for a second round pick for JV, a third round pick for Sutter, Eriksson as part of a salary dump to get OEL, and one buyout (Baertschi).  Very sorry to see TT go and would prefer to run with Demko and a FA backup and use the Markstrom savings on TT or a RHD that’s more durable than Tanev. If Markstrom is signed, I don’t want to lose Demko to Seattle.

[Mo Grit]

Is Benning a great GM?  OP's question may well be answered very soon by JB himself.

His aw-shucks, hockey-man demeanour made an interesting contrast to the shrewd business-like manner of Gillis.

I was a huge fan of MG though, and consider his appointment over no-action Nonis was a revelation.

Gillis in 6 years achieved a Stanley Cup Final, 2 Presidents' Trophies, 1 GM of the year award, 1 Conference and 5 division titles, 5 playoff appearances.

Our most accomplished GM by a country mile.

Yet, even suffering through 4 years of Nonis, he did get us a division title and a playoff appearance.

 

Benning, despite a compliant owner, over a longer opportunity than Gillis, has achieved less than Nonis.

I would not have believed that possible, back in 2014.  My guess is that at this point, he should feel lucky to survive for much longer, given the roster we're stuck with for another 2 covid years.

 

Hell, if Fransesco had appointed himself part-time GM and kept/dealt for draft picks to select the consensus best player available per round, we'd now be talent-laden.  JB's coaching hires have been mediocre and little help to his cause, while the assistants they hired themselves have proved ineffective at motivating or innovating.  I can't think of any JB trades who have improved their game since arriving on Easy Street in Vancouver.

Some retain existing learned skills and work ethic like Miller&Motte, but that's hasn't been the norm.

 

Maybe Benning's impressive draft picks will bail him out, but sadly its too early for them and too late for him.

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Mo Grit

[cuporbust]

On 10/1/2020 at 7:03 PM, runtzguy said:

He is a decent GM. But if he trades for OEL, he will become Canucks' second worst GM. Mike Keenan will always be #1 in my heart

[Nucker 67]

Can I change my answer? 

[steviewonder20]

All our UFAs are now available to other teams. All of our “anchor contracts” are still in place. OEL isn’t coming here. Looking for some magic somewhere, please.

[Rob f]

He is awful, mismanages team assets no one coming back to fill the holes left by leaving free agents two of whom have signed for less than last year with different teams. Other GMS were able to move bad money from the books to other teams to open up salary money Jim could not make that work. Has not been able to deal with the Loui Erickson situation that he created. I believe he has no credibility with other GMS in the league can’t seem to get things done. Looking at the west flames are better, Oilers are better, kings have to be better ducks will be better unless something changes I think we will take a step back. He is banking on the contracts he has to get done next off season Petterson and Hughes, but seems like he is willing to give up on this season. Let’s just say I am not a fan of me Benning 

[Lazurus]

On 10/9/2020 at 12:24 AM, Baggins said:

On 10/8/2020 at 11:24 PM, N7Nucks said:

They look worse cause of Covid. They'd be easier to move out if the cap went up like everyone expected it to. But now no one has cap, those that do are being especially careful not to spend it cause there's no telling when the Cap will actually go up again. The VGK can't convince anyone to take Flower at 50% retained for a 2nd round pick. They can't move a Cup champion at 50% retained. Why? Cause cap is that valuable right now.

 

Benning signed those contracts thinking the cap would go up and if need be they can be moved to a team with some minor assets. There are analysts saying Benning has been talking other GMs ears off since the playoffs ended about moving out cap. They are only anchors cause Covid took a dump on the world and everyone is penny pinching their cap space cause it's more valuable than it's ever been. I truly believe if Covid did not happen we could have found a buyer for some of those contracts.

Not just cap but income. There's currently no plan for attending games this next season meaning all teams take a pretty good hit on revenue. For most it means losing considerable money. Belts are being tightened.

Explaining seems to be like running on a tread mill

I never realized just how juvenile some posters are here. How much fanatasy hockey had invaded.

 

Some people look to everything to blame except the one constant thing involved in it all,  Benning, teams no good so it is the coaches, fire the coaches, the fire them again, clause contracts from the previous GM, it all his fault even the 13 signed by the man in charge, the inherited over paid vets was not his fault, so he signs 8 more, not his fault.

Even if the cap had increased 10% instead of 5% this team was up to 91 mil in cap hits, just to stay the same or get a little worse as these older players decline rapidly, hell getting old isn't Benning fault either

[Duodenum]

After all these years we're a team with a good young core, awful defense, and full of bloated contracts.

 

Great is not the word I'd use.

[kanucks25]

1 hour ago, Lazurus said:

Explaining seems to be like running on a tread mill

I never realized just how juvenile some posters are here. How much fanatasy hockey had invaded.

 

Some people look to everything to blame except the one constant thing involved in it all,  Benning, teams no good so it is the coaches, fire the coaches, the fire them again, clause contracts from the previous GM, it all his fault even the 13 signed by the man in charge, the inherited over paid vets was not his fault, so he signs 8 more, not his fault.

Even if the cap had increased 10% instead of 5% this team was up to 91 mil in cap hits, just to stay the same or get a little worse as these older players decline rapidly, hell getting old isn't Benning fault either

For some, Benning is infallible, perfect. Still see people around these parts defending the likes of Gudbranson or Sbisa or Eriksson.

 

Some people aren't willing to admit the moves that Benning has made that are universally accepted as his worst were bad at all.

 

If he was that perfect, we probably would have won a Cup or two by now.

 

No GM is perfect, all make mistakes, and that's okay. Benning has done some good things too, that's just how it goes.

 

But to blindly blame everything else for everything that goes wrong when Benning is the constant in all of it is just laughable.

[Smashian Kassian]

Voted not great. I'd say he's decent, not bad but not amazing either. Some hits & missed overall. 

 

I do like Benning. He's been getting better the last few years. 

[Baggins]

59 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

For some, Benning is infallible, perfect. Still see people around these parts defending the likes of Gudbranson or Sbisa or Eriksson.

 

Some people aren't willing to admit the moves that Benning has made that are universally accepted as his worst were bad at all.

 

If he was that perfect, we probably would have won a Cup or two by now.

 

No GM is perfect, all make mistakes, and that's okay. Benning has done some good things too, that's just how it goes.

 

But to blindly blame everything else for everything that goes wrong when Benning is the constant in all of it is just laughable.

Who said he's infallible? No GM is. Something I've said repeatedly. All three of the players you mention are easy to defend based on knowns at the time. Not all signings or trades work out. Unlike some I expect that. Particularly with young players. But they did make sense at the time. Even trading for Vey (who has done very well in the KHL btw) made sense even though it didn't work out for us. I look at it as a good gamble that didn't pay off. These are "mistakes" seen in hindsight just as draft picks are hits and misses in hindsight. Decisions are made on what you know at the time. If your expectation is every signing, trade and draft pick will be a homerun you're going to hate every GM. Btw, I'd say Sbisa worked out fine for us. Vegas took him in the expansion draft. rather than somebody important, like Gaunce. 

[ilduce39]

On 10/9/2020 at 6:24 AM, Mo Grit said:

Is Benning a great GM?  OP's question may well be answered very soon by JB himself.

His aw-shucks, hockey-man demeanour made an interesting contrast to the shrewd business-like manner of Gillis.

I was a huge fan of MG though, and consider his appointment over no-action Nonis was a revelation.

Gillis in 6 years achieved a Stanley Cup Final, 2 Presidents' Trophies, 1 GM of the year award, 1 Conference and 5 division titles, 5 playoff appearances.

Our most accomplished GM by a country mile.

Yet, even suffering through 4 years of Nonis, he did get us a division title and a playoff appearance.

 

Benning, despite a compliant owner, over a longer opportunity than Gillis, has achieved less than Nonis.

I would not have believed that possible, back in 2014.  My guess is that at this point, he should feel lucky to survive for much longer, given the roster we're stuck with for another 2 covid years.

 

Hell, if Fransesco had appointed himself part-time GM and kept/dealt for draft picks to select the consensus best player available per round, we'd now be talent-laden.  JB's coaching hires have been mediocre and little help to his cause, while the assistants they hired themselves have proved ineffective at motivating or innovating.  I can't think of any JB trades who have improved their game since arriving on Easy Street in Vancouver.

Some retain existing learned skills and work ethic like Miller&Motte, but that's hasn't been the norm.

 

Maybe Benning's impressive draft picks will bail him out, but sadly its too early for them and too late for him.

They way you’re framing the past 5 years is shared by a few people but I can’t wrap my head around it.

 

When JB took over the team had a completely stale old core and zero capital for attracting players.  For prospects, there was Horvat who at the time projected to be a 3C and Markstrom who would struggle for years and be waived before finally finding his game. It was as bleak as anything.  The implication that a rebuilt core should have happened *faster* absolutely blows my mind.  During those low years the team played hard and came by cellar honestly - those rosters were glorified AHL level. 
 

Comparing him to Gillis, who was gifted elite talent at every key position on the team and benefitted from a core who took pay cuts to be competitive is ludicrous... completely different situations. 
 

 

[kanucks25]

29 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Who said he's infallible? No GM is. Something I've said repeatedly. All three of the players you mention are easy to defend based on knowns at the time. Not all signings or trades work out. Unlike some I expect that. Particularly with young players. But they did make sense at the time. Even trading for Vey (who has done very well in the KHL btw) made sense even though it didn't work out for us. I look at it as a good gamble that didn't pay off. These are "mistakes" seen in hindsight just as draft picks are hits and misses in hindsight. Decisions are made on what you know at the time. If your expectation is every signing, trade and draft pick will be a homerun you're going to hate every GM. Btw, I'd say Sbisa worked out fine for us. Vegas took him in the expansion draft. rather than somebody important, like Gaunce. 

That's the thing, you've made my point.

 

A lot of Benning's bad moves were seen as bad the very second they were made. Looking back at them now and seeing that they didn't work out isn't hindsight, it was predictable at the time.

 

Some people just can't admit that the mistakes were clearly mistakes, and not just lack of luck or unforeseen circumstances.

[Baggins]

4 hours ago, Lazurus said:

Explaining seems to be like running on a tread mill

I never realized just how juvenile some posters are here. How much fanatasy hockey had invaded.

 

Some people look to everything to blame except the one constant thing involved in it all,  Benning, teams no good so it is the coaches, fire the coaches, the fire them again, clause contracts from the previous GM, it all his fault even the 13 signed by the man in charge, the inherited over paid vets was not his fault, so he signs 8 more, not his fault.

Even if the cap had increased 10% instead of 5% this team was up to 91 mil in cap hits, just to stay the same or get a little worse as these older players decline rapidly, hell getting old isn't Benning fault either

You must be running on a treadmill. There seems to be some oxygen deprivation going on. 

 

You do need to look at the whole picture. Clause contracts exist on every team. To ignore that some players don't cooperate when the time comes and blame the GM for not moving them is foolish to say the least. It happens all around the league. Also ignoring Covid having a rather negative effect is simply ignoring real life extenuating circumstances. It's affected most teams and who they can sign or trade. If you don't think Covid has had an effect on trades and signings you have your head in the sand. There really wasn't much wheeling and dealing at the draft this year either. There's a great deal of uncertainty righty now and a lot of teams are playing it safe.

 

Life isn't black and white. There's a lot of gray out there. Is Kesler only giving two trade options (with one not interested) Bennings fault? No. Was it Beniings fault Vrbata's wife was pregnant and he didn't want to be moved at the deadline? No. You never know how clause contracts will play out when it comes time to move on. Moving those players requires both their cooperation and teams they'll go to actually being interested. Two things out of any GM's control. The pesky gray area. Do all prospects/young players reach their projected potential? Nope. Do all draft picks pan out? Nope. Life would be so much easier with a crystal ball to wipe out those pesky gray areas. It's not excuses. It's life. Some of us just don't expect the rose garden without some manure.

 

Btw, what team is "good" during a rebuild? Benning did what he could to try and keep the team competitive but he's been rebuilding since he got here. I'd say he's done a good job considering what he started with. One player worth a damn under 27 and a farm team with nobody worth the snot on your sleeve to draw from. Expansion teams have started with better than that.

[kanucks25]

13 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

They way you’re framing the past 5 years is shared by a few people but I can’t wrap my head around it.

 

When JB took over the team had a completely stale old core and zero capital for attracting players.  For prospects, there was Horvat who at the time projected to be a 3C and Markstrom who would struggle for years and be waived before finally finding his game. It was as bleak as anything.  The implication that a rebuilt core should have happened *faster* absolutely blows my mind.  During those low years the team played hard and came by cellar honestly - those rosters were glorified AHL level. 
 

Comparing him to Gillis, who was gifted elite talent at every key position on the team and benefitted from a core who took pay cuts to be competitive is ludicrous... completely different situations. 
 

 

I've been through the "Benning inherited garbage" argument a million times now so I'm not even going to bother.

 

But Horvat projecting to be a 3C? That's new lol

[Honky Cat]

43 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

I've been through the "Benning inherited garbage" argument a million times now so I'm not even going to bother.

 

But Horvat projecting to be a 3C? That's new lol

." Long-term he projects as an ideal third-line center in the NHL. Horvat could find himself on a team’s top six -- as the sandpaper on an offensively-gifted line. He could be lethal in that role as he has the hands and nose for the net to take advantage of the dirty areas."..Hockeys Future,

https://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/bo-horvat/

 

The Canucks had one impact player in their prospect pool when Benning was hired in 2014.The capsizing of the team was inevitable with no impact talent coming up through the ranks..This was inevitable...A 6th OA pick, and returns for a bunch 30 year olds was not going to save it.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Honky Cat

[kanucks25]

4 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

." Long-term he projects as an ideal third-line center in the NHL. Horvat could find himself on a team’s top six -- as the sandpaper on an offensively-gifted line. He could be lethal in that role as he has the hands and nose for the net to take advantage of the dirty areas."..Hockeys Future,

We traded a legit #1 goalie in the middle of his prime for a 9th overall pick. We wouldn't have done that for a depth player.

 

Horvat's ceiling was a top end 2C and that's about where is he right now. Teams don't select players that project to be 3rd liners in the top 10.

 

That quote is one source, and even they say he can be a top-6er.

 

Button had him compared to ROR. And here's Pronman:

Described as, "one of the most complete forwards in this draft," by Corey Pronman of Hockey Prospectus, Bo Horvat has been steadily moving up draft boards. At 6'0" and 203 pounds, Horvat is a physical two-way center who kills penalties and wins face-offs. What separates him from the pack is his offensive upside.

[Baggins]

2 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

That's the thing, you've made my point.

 

A lot of Benning's bad moves were seen as bad the very second they were made. Looking back at them now and seeing that they didn't work out isn't hindsight, it was predictable at the time.

 

Some people just can't admit that the mistakes were clearly mistakes, and not just lack of luck or unforeseen circumstances.

By some. Most were negative because picks were being moved. You know, because all our picks will be homeruns. Many were negative about his moves purely because he wasn't doing what they wanted - intentionally tanking the team. I'm more realistic than that. A 2nd for Vey was a good deal. We had nothing worth a damn in the AHL and he had put up numbers head and shoulders above what we did have. But prospects don't come with any more of a guarantee than picks do. It's only a mistake in hindsight. You see the odds of that pick stepping on NHL ice in less than 3 to 5 years is low. Even then only about 25% manage to play 200 NHL games. It's all a gamble. Trading for Vey got a quality prospect on the ice right away and youth was sorely lacking. To me it made sense, to the tank crew we threw away a superstar from that draft. LA drafted McKeown who played 10 NHL games. Look how peeved people were about trading Forsling. He's a future star... drafted in the 5th freakin' round. He's played 122 NHL games, has been traded again, and spent all of last season in the AHL. Stupid Benning traded him for a prospect that had played very well in the AHL. But he was still just a prospect. Meaning no guarantee. But again he was traded for a prospect that appeared NHL ready.

 

People freaked about trading Shinkaruk, our future 1st line LW. Stupid Benning. He played 15 NHL games and is now in the KHL. I have to add, not as productive as Vey still. But that's the problem here. The notion all our picks will be winners. Never ever trade picks or our drafted prospects. They'll all be stars! Nonsense. GM's need to keep all options open and some will pan out, others won't. That's not so much mistakes, it's just reality. You can make a list of "mistakes" by every GM in the league and there will be fans that hated those "mistakes" at the time it happened. Just as every year there have been those complaining who we took in the first round. Year after year. Even Pettersson, most were going on about Vilardi. Stupid Benning. You win some, you lose some. Particularly with young players. I expect that and don't look at it as mistakes. Nobody has a crystal ball.

[189lb enforcers?]

Not great, but good, lately.