Coronavirus outbreak

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

They have to send results to a lab for genetic sequencing to determine if it is the Omicron variant and I doubt they do this for the vast majority of cases. Omicron cases are expected to double almost every two days so we can expect over 10,000 per day before the new year although testing may fall short before we see those numbers.

 

A group of doctors and other advocates is urging B.C. to speed up booster shots as the Omicron variant moves into the province.

Protect our Province BC held a press briefing Thursday (Dec. 16) to lay out what steps they believe the province needs to take.

“Two doses are not enough to provide protection against breakthrough cases,” said Dr. Lyne Filiatrault, a retired emergency room doctor.

She pointed to Ontario, where she said cases are doubling every 2.2 days and that within a week, all cases there will be Omicron. That variant was first detected in South Africa in November and has already spurred the federal government to issue a travel advisory and call for more arrival testing at airports.

With Omicron taking over how many people have it and aren’t getting tested because they either have none or mild (head cold) symptoms?  Omicron is going to burn through very fast.  Everyone is going to be exposed.  

[Gurn]

26 minutes ago, stawns said:

I wonder if that's just them not testing every case.  There's no way we'd suddenly have a jump of delta like that, after months of stability.

I'm thinking the numbers of Delta have indeed skyrocketed.

People got so wrapped up in how much better Omi was, they forgot all about  Delta.

Too many people didn't wait till Delta was actually declared, over, if that's even scientifically possible.

[Alflives]

38 minutes ago, stawns said:

I wonder if that's just them not testing every case.  There's no way we'd suddenly have a jump of delta like that, after months of stability.

Very good point.  We are testing way more right now.  As long as severe disease (hospitalization) stays disconnected from these high case counts we will get through this.  

[Smashian Kassian]

3 hours ago, stawns said:

I care because all you do is whine, non stop.  You disagree with pretty much everything medical experts are telling us.......so, let's hear your plan

 

Bringing this over from the WJC thread for obvious reasons.

 

FWIW I think after the winter / this wave they should de-segregate society.

 

They (understandably) sold it as a measure to prevent transmission & that's proven to be false, so that should be rectified IMO. Once cases are back down & we are out of the cold (when these things transmit more) lets try to move back to letting people live their lives. 

 

I realize there's still the issue of hospitalization, but they could always rehire the fired healthcare workers that didn't comply. Our healthcare infrastructure was likely insufficient even prior to the virus, it would be nice to build that up more. 

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Smashian Kassian

[BlakeQuinnAndEggs]

We smashed new case numbers today.

 

I wonder how many of those show little to no symptoms. My bet is well over 50%

 

Stop being scared and this will all be over. Hospitals and testing centers don't need to be overloaded because of sore throats and runny noses.

 

I can't wait to have my normal Christmas with all my family, watch some wjhc and hopefully the Canucks are back on Monday. **** these overkill restrictions

 

Go Canucks Go Merry Christmas to all! Even stawns. Merry Christmas my fellow Canucks fan, thats at least one thing we see eye to eye on lol.

[King Heffy]

2 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Bringing this over from the WJC thread for obvious reasons.

 

FWIW I think after the winter / this wave they should de-segregate society.

 

They (understandably) sold it as a measure to prevent transmission & that's proven to be false, so that should be rectified IMO. Once cases are back down & we are out of the cold (when these things transmit more) lets try to move back to letting people live their lives. 

 

I realize there's still the issue of hospitalization, but they could always rehire the fired healthcare workers that didn't comply. Our healthcare infrastructure was likely insufficient even prior to the virus, it would be nice to build that up more. 

 

Here's a compromise:  Set up a field hospital with the unvaccinated health care workers, and only allow the unvaccinated to use that hospital.

[gizmo2337]

Amen. All I want to hear in 2022 is Canucks ventilate the Leafs. 

[Ghostsof1915]

31 minutes ago, gizmo2337 said:

Amen. All I want to hear in 2022 is Canucks ventilate the Leafs. 

Along with Omicron is the last wave. 

[Gatzkek]

1 hour ago, King Heffy said:

Here's a compromise:  Set up a field hospital with the unvaccinated health care workers, and only allow the unvaccinated to use that hospital.

Actually would be a step in the right direction if it were possible.

[stawns]

A really interesting interview, the gyst being that omicron is a pandemic of the vaccinated that is running parallel to delta, not replacing it.  Omicron is primarily infecting the vaxxed/infected and delta is still infecting the unvaxxed

 

 https://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2021/12/is-omicron-a-new-wave-or-a-parallel-pandemic.html

 

 

[StanleyCupOneDay]

10 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Bringing this over from the WJC thread for obvious reasons.

 

FWIW I think after the winter / this wave they should de-segregate society.

 

They (understandably) sold it as a measure to prevent transmission & that's proven to be false, so that should be rectified IMO. Once cases are back down & we are out of the cold (when these things transmit more) lets try to move back to letting people live their lives. 

 

I realize there's still the issue of hospitalization, but they could always rehire the fired healthcare workers that didn't comply. Our healthcare infrastructure was likely insufficient even prior to the virus, it would be nice to build that up more. 

 

I would agree with you except for one key detail you’ve got wrong. COVID spread from unvaccinated people is more likely than fully vaccinated. This is another study in the growing pile of evidence that has found the same result. We’re trying to stop the spreading of disease because everything’s all connected. We know if we lower the spread then we lower the number of people hospitalized and deaths that occur.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583

 

Now maybe omicron is different then prior strains and is equally infectious. We don’t know that, but if the data bares this out then maybe we should lift restrictions on the unvaxxed because other methods would help slow the spread more (such as masking and social distancing). However, we aren’t at that point yet. I honestly think it’s unfair for the unvaccinated to complain. They’ve made a choice and these are the consequences just like what comes with every other potential decision a person makes. So let’s look at what a very small, very loud minority are wailing about infringing on their freedom.

 

- Can’t work in federal public service, federally regulated industries or healthcare

- Can’t travel on planes, boats or interprovincial trains

- Can’t go to some post secondary schools, public events, sports games or go into restaurants/bars

- Can’t go to parties (just implemented)

 

Can you get a job? Yes

Can you drive anywhere within Canada? Yes

Can you get an education? Yes

Can you get alcohol, takeout or delivery? Yes

Can you leave your home? Yes

 

I shudder imagining what they’d think living during war when people made real sacrifices without complaint. Anything metal was donated. There were weekly rations: 1 cup Sugar, 4 oz Butter, 2 oz Tea, 8 oz Coffee, 24 oz Meat. Alcohol, clothing, rubber, fuel and paper were severely restricted for 5 years. Even if you had a ration card there was no guarantee you could find the item. These minor restrictions in comparison are why some believe their freedom has been taken, but in reality they don’t have a clue. The only thing they’ve lost is some access to the extras in life.

Edited December 24, 2021 by StanleyCupOneDay

[stawns]

1 minute ago, StanleyCupOneDay said:

I would agree with you except for one key detail you’ve got wrong. COVID spread from unvaccinated people is more likely than fully vaccinated. This is another study in the growing pile of evidence that has found the same result. We’re trying to stop the spreading of disease because everything’s all connected. We know if we lower the spread then we lower the number of people hospitalized and deaths that occur.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583

 

Now maybe omicron is different then prior strains and is equally infectious. We don’t know that, but if the data bares this out then yes we should lift restrictions on the unvaxxed because other methods would help slow the spread more (such as masking and social distancing). However, we aren’t at that point yet. I honestly think it’s unfair for the unvaccinated to complain. They’ve made a choice and these are the consequences just like what comes with every other potential decision a person makes. So let’s look at what a very small, very loud minority are wailing about infringing on their freedom.

 

- Can’t work in federal public service, federally regulated industries or healthcare

- Can’t travel on planes, boats or interprovincial trains

- Can’t go to some post secondary schools, public events, sports games or go into restaurants/bars

- Can’t go to parties (just implemented)

 

Can you get a job? Yes

Can you drive anywhere within Canada? Yes

Can you get an education? Yes

Can you get alcohol, takeout or delivery? Yes

Can you leave your home? Yes

 

I shudder imagining what they’d think living during war when people made real sacrifices without complaint. Anything metal was donated. There were weekly rations: 1 cup Sugar, 4 oz Butter, 2 oz Tea, 8 oz Coffee, 24 oz Meat. Alcohol, clothing, rubber, fuel and paper were severely restricted for 5 years. Even if you had a ration card there was no guarantee you could find the item. These minor restrictions in comparison are why some believe their freedom has been taken, but in reality they don’t have a clue. The only thing they’ve lost is some access to the extras in life.

Have a read of the interview I posted above, it's pretty fascinating.  It's very possible that we have parallel pandemics happening......omicron is primarily infecting vaxxed or previously infected with a mutated, seemingly mild strain but it's not actually getting rid of delta. Delta is still hitting the unvaxxed hard and doesn't seem to be going away, they seem to be running side by side.  Obviously there's a lot we do not know, but that seems to be reinforced in the numbers were seeing bc........omicron is spreading fast, but delta isn't going away, but is actually surging as well.

 

[johngould21]

14 hours ago, Alflives said:

Sad to see so many cases, but encouraging to see we are following everywhere else that’s had (having) the Omicron wave and there is a clear decoupling of severe disease from case numbers.  Thank you science for these vaccines!  

Health officials were warning of 2000 cases a day, and here we are. Yet you get a "rough game" notation.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, johngould21 said:

Health officials were warning of 2000 cases a day, and here we are. Yet you get a "rough game" notation.

The key is hospitalizations.  There is a clear decoupling of positive case numbers and severe disease with Omicron.  That’s the vaccines working.  

[JM_]

12 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

FWIW I think after the winter / this wave they should de-segregate society.

 

I don't understand this. How is our society segregated? we have less than 10% of us not willing to take a vaccine. They are making a choice, we're not segregating them.

 

I see a lot of attempts by the anti-vaxxers to pull folks to their "side" using various attempts at making it political, or about freedom, etc. Anything but the cold reality of not being willing to do one's part.

 

I guess I need you to explain this to me, I don't understand how someone can view it this way.

[stawns]

13 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I don't understand this. How is our society segregated? we have less than 10% of us not willing to take a vaccine. They are making a choice, we're not segregating them.

 

I see a lot of attempts by the anti-vaxxers to pull folks to their "side" using various attempts at making it political, or about freedom, etc. Anything but the cold reality of not being willing to do one's part.

 

I guess I need you to explain this to me, I don't understand how someone can view it this way.

Further to that, it looks like delta isnt going away, so that threat still exists

 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

Further to that, it looks like delta isnt going away, so that threat still exists

 

I'm just trying to figure out from people that - apparently- sympathize with the anti-vax group, why they feel that way?

 

And I'm not trying to take this down a rabbit hole / pissing match, I'm really trying to figure out where that comes from.

[gizmo2337]

I don't understand it either. I've seen clear evidence that you can catch covid whether you are vaccinated or not. (Evidence NHL shutdown) There's also clear evidence it doesn't affect viral load, which was a surprise to me. So the bottom line is, if you don't take the vax, the risk is on yourself, not anyone else. I respect people's freedom of choice. Omicron is a breakthrough infection infecting the vaccinated. It won't be the last variant either. At some point the stupid vax passport will finally be impractical because of changing definitions of fully vaccinated, when said vax never provided sterilizing immunity and preventing disease to begin with. It might lower the risk of severe disease, and that's it.

The only point that makes sense is to not overwhelm healthcare. That can be done with better masks and ventilation, which sadly hasn't been done. Vaccinating another 10% wouldn't change this wave. Omicron infects the vaccinated as well. 

[stawns]

Just now, gizmo2337 said:

I don't understand it either. I've seen clear evidence that you can catch covid whether you are vaccinated or not. (Evidence NHL shutdown) There's also clear evidence it doesn't affect viral load, which was a surprise to me. So the bottom line is, if you don't take the vax, the risk is on yourself, not anyone else. I respect people's freedom of choice. Omicron is a breakthrough infection infecting the vaccinated. It won't be the last variant either. At some point the stupid vax passport will finally be impractical because of changing definitions of fully vaccinated, when said vax never provided sterilizing immunity and preventing disease to begin with. It might lower the risk of severe disease, and that's it.

The only point that makes sense is to not overwhelm healthcare. That can be done with better masks and ventilation, which sadly hasn't been done. Vaccinating another 10% wouldn't change this wave. Omicron infects the vaccinated as well. 

Because delta is still out there and it's still very serious and that's being fuelled by the unvaxxed.  

[JM_]

12 minutes ago, gizmo2337 said:

I don't understand it either. I've seen clear evidence that you can catch covid whether you are vaccinated or not. (Evidence NHL shutdown) There's also clear evidence it doesn't affect viral load, which was a surprise to me. So the bottom line is, if you don't take the vax, the risk is on yourself, not anyone else. I respect people's freedom of choice. Omicron is a breakthrough infection infecting the vaccinated. It won't be the last variant either. At some point the stupid vax passport will finally be impractical because of changing definitions of fully vaccinated, when said vax never provided sterilizing immunity and preventing disease to begin with. It might lower the risk of severe disease, and that's it.

The only point that makes sense is to not overwhelm healthcare. That can be done with better masks and ventilation, which sadly hasn't been done. Vaccinating another 10% wouldn't change this wave. Omicron infects the vaccinated as well. 

There have been many studies showing that vaccination reduces severity. That alone is a great reason to take one, and help reduce the potential to overwhelm the systems.

 

Yes you can make the choice to no do that. You say "better masks" but they are expensive. Why would we expect anti-vaxxers to care enough to go through that expense? how would we even know who's that is? how would a "better mask mandate" be any different? I think we'd still be hearing people talk about segregation and railing against it.

Edited December 24, 2021 by JM_