Coronavirus outbreak

[RUPERTKBD]

16 hours ago, gizmo2337 said:

Trevor put out this great thread today if you are interested in predictions on omicron wave. He's a well respected virologist out of Seattle.
It's still a wait and see game, but some interesting trends emerging. We can expect omicron data reporting will be erratic over the holiday break, so it may not be till Jan that we see a better picture.
 

 

There was an interesting comment in that thread that went something like this:

 

"If you're vaccinated and tested positive for Covid, yet experienced mild or no symptoms, congratulations. Your vaccine worked."

[stawns]

14 minutes ago, gizmo2337 said:

I don't understand it either. I've seen clear evidence that you can catch covid whether you are vaccinated or not. (Evidence NHL shutdown) There's also clear evidence it doesn't affect viral load, which was a surprise to me. So the bottom line is, if you don't take the vax, the risk is on yourself, not anyone else. I respect people's freedom of choice. Omicron is a breakthrough infection infecting the vaccinated. It won't be the last variant either. At some point the stupid vax passport will finally be impractical because of changing definitions of fully vaccinated, when said vax never provided sterilizing immunity and preventing disease to begin with. It might lower the risk of severe disease, and that's it.

The only point that makes sense is to not overwhelm healthcare. That can be done with better masks and ventilation, which sadly hasn't been done. Vaccinating another 10% wouldn't change this wave. Omicron infects the vaccinated as well. 

It might very well be that it infects the vaxxed/previously infected almost exclusively.

[JM_]

Just now, RUPERTKBD said:

There was an interesting comment in that thread that went something like this:

 

"If you're vaccinated and tested positive for Covid, yet experienced mild or no symptoms, congratulations. Your vaccine worked."

its funny that some people want to turn that into vaccines being unsuccessful

 

t always seems to come back to having to suspend common sense or basic facts to be pulled over to the anti-vax sympathy group.

[gizmo2337]

I'm double jabbbed, so go easy on the hate. 

The part I don't understand is why there is so much hate against ant-vaxer's. I don't share the same view as the rest of you I guess. They aren't driving the wave we are seeing now. The variant is able to infect the vaccinated. They next variant will probably achieve 100% breakthrough and that vaccine will be worthless. Some of those people have legit reasons for not getting jabbed. If you want to make a difference, just stay home.

Mask's aren't relatively expensive. The filter fibers for N95 masks come right from BC, so there's no excuse.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, gizmo2337 said:

I'm double jabbbed, so go easy on the hate. 

The part I don't understand is why there is so much hate against ant-vaxer's. I don't share the same view as the rest of you I guess. They aren't driving the wave we are seeing now. The variant is able to infect the vaccinated. They next variant will probably achieve 100% breakthrough and that vaccine will be worthless. Some of those people have legit reasons for not getting jabbed. If you want to make a difference, just stay home.

Mask's aren't relatively expensive. The filter fibers for N95 masks come right from BC, so there's no excuse.

If you can't see why people are frustrated with anti vaxxers then you're choosing not to see it.  It's clearly not about the vaccine for them, it's much more than that.

 

And they're not fuelling omicron, but delta is surging as well, and that's still the danger

[JM_]

1 minute ago, gizmo2337 said:

I'm double jabbbed, so go easy on the hate. 

The part I don't understand is why there is so much hate against ant-vaxer's. I don't share the same view as the rest of you I guess. They aren't driving the wave we are seeing now. The variant is able to infect the vaccinated. They next variant will probably achieve 100% breakthrough and that vaccine will be worthless. Some of those people have legit reasons for not getting jabbed. If you want to make a difference, just stay home.

Mask's aren't relatively expensive. The filter fibers for N95 masks come right from BC, so there's no excuse.

no one is hating. I'm trying to figure out why you sympathize with the anti-vaxxers, and have a rational discussion about it.

 

Anti-vaxxers have been and currently are the ones straining our system. We're cancelling surgeries again because of them. Its just a fact, they are 70% of people in hospital. If they were vaxxed we wouldn't be cancelling surgeries.

 

If masks were the answer, anti-vaxxers wouldn't be taking up so many hospital resources. You can order an N95 right now on Amazon. The anti-vaxxers aren't wearing masks in large enough numbers, if they were the hospitalization numbers would look quite different.

 

But aside from all that, can you help me understand why you sympathize with them?

 

[johngould21]

5 minutes ago, gizmo2337 said:

I'm double jabbbed, so go easy on the hate. 

The part I don't understand is why there is so much hate against ant-vaxer's. I don't share the same view as the rest of you I guess. They aren't driving the wave we are seeing now. The variant is able to infect the vaccinated. They next variant will probably achieve 100% breakthrough and that vaccine will be worthless. Some of those people have legit reasons for not getting jabbed. If you want to make a difference, just stay home.

Mask's aren't relatively expensive. The filter fibers for N95 masks come right from BC, so there's no excuse.

Well, if they haven't figured out why so many of them are in an ICU, or the lesser of the two in hospital, why do you think?

[RUPERTKBD]

2 minutes ago, gizmo2337 said:

I'm double jabbbed, so go easy on the hate. 

The part I don't understand is why there is so much hate against ant-vaxer's. I don't share the same view as the rest of you I guess. They aren't driving the wave we are seeing now. The variant is able to infect the vaccinated. They next variant will probably achieve 100% breakthrough and that vaccine will be worthless. Some of those people have legit reasons for not getting jabbed. If you want to make a difference, just stay home.

Mask's aren't relatively expensive. The filter fibers for N95 masks come right from BC, so there's no excuse.

I guess a lot of the frustration stems form the idea that we might not have experienced the Delta or Omicron variant at all, if everyone had bought in right from the get go. Yet we have people protesting and blocking access to clinics, willfully spreading disinformation and generally being disruptive to the goal of putting the pandemic behind us.

 

Those that have done the right thing and thought about others, rather than just themselves are (rightfully, IMO) disappointed, to put it mildly.

[Gawdzukes]

3 hours ago, StanleyCupOneDay said:

I would agree with you except for one key detail you’ve got wrong. COVID spread from unvaccinated people is more likely than fully vaccinated. This is another study in the growing pile of evidence that has found the same result. We’re trying to stop the spreading of disease because everything’s all connected. We know if we lower the spread then we lower the number of people hospitalized and deaths that occur.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583

 

Now maybe omicron is different then prior strains and is equally infectious. We don’t know that, but if the data bares this out then maybe we should lift restrictions on the unvaxxed because other methods would help slow the spread more (such as masking and social distancing). However, we aren’t at that point yet. I honestly think it’s unfair for the unvaccinated to complain. They’ve made a choice and these are the consequences just like what comes with every other potential decision a person makes. So let’s look at what a very small, very loud minority are wailing about infringing on their freedom.

 

- Can’t work in federal public service, federally regulated industries or healthcare

- Can’t travel on planes, boats or interprovincial trains

- Can’t go to some post secondary schools, public events, sports games or go into restaurants/bars

- Can’t go to parties (just implemented)

 

Can you get a job? Yes

Can you drive anywhere within Canada? Yes

Can you get an education? Yes

Can you get alcohol, takeout or delivery? Yes

Can you leave your home? Yes

 

I shudder imagining what they’d think living during war when people made real sacrifices without complaint. Anything metal was donated. There were weekly rations: 1 cup Sugar, 4 oz Butter, 2 oz Tea, 8 oz Coffee, 24 oz Meat. Alcohol, clothing, rubber, fuel and paper were severely restricted for 5 years. Even if you had a ration card there was no guarantee you could find the item. These minor restrictions in comparison are why some believe their freedom has been taken, but in reality they don’t have a clue. The only thing they’ve lost is some access to the extras in life.

Wow, very nicely stated! +1000

 

The one thing that's getting to me is the attitude of the unvaccinated. They act as if someone is out to get them instead of trying to save lives. We have a worldwide pandemic on a scale no living human (barely) has seen in their lives. This virus is killing people and making them sick at an alarming rate. The governments and medical fields have gathered and put together a never before seen herculean effort to produce a defence against a common predator.

 

Is the vaccine perfect ... no. Does it provide protection and do what it was designed to do? For the most part yes. The Omicron could be even worse if not for the vaccine for all we know. All problems are not easy to solve and we are seeing some concerns with the new variant. That doesn't mean that our efforts were wasted, we should give up, or the unvaccinated should rejoice. Just because a plan doesn't work to 100% as expected it doesn't mean it was a bad plan. It was the best we could come up with when our backs were against the wall and we should be sticking together not just giving in.

 

I want to state an analogy I've been concocting. It's flawed like most but I keep coming back to it.

 

It reminds me of a football team in a big game and it's close in the fourth quarter. The owner, the coach, the offensive coordinator, and the QB all call one play on the field. It's a screen play to the right with both backs blocking for the TE .. but the fullback wants to get the pass to the left so he just lets his mark run uncontested into the back field while he goes out into the flat for a non-existent pass. That accomplishes nothing except getting your ass handed to you. When you're on a team even if you don't agree you always carry out the job you're given to the best degree you can. We just have a lot of crappy teammates we can't cut on this one.

[Ghostsof1915]

4 hours ago, StanleyCupOneDay said:

I would agree with you except for one key detail you’ve got wrong. COVID spread from unvaccinated people is more likely than fully vaccinated. This is another study in the growing pile of evidence that has found the same result. We’re trying to stop the spreading of disease because everything’s all connected. We know if we lower the spread then we lower the number of people hospitalized and deaths that occur.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583

 

Now maybe omicron is different then prior strains and is equally infectious. We don’t know that, but if the data bares this out then maybe we should lift restrictions on the unvaxxed because other methods would help slow the spread more (such as masking and social distancing). However, we aren’t at that point yet. I honestly think it’s unfair for the unvaccinated to complain. They’ve made a choice and these are the consequences just like what comes with every other potential decision a person makes. So let’s look at what a very small, very loud minority are wailing about infringing on their freedom.

 

- Can’t work in federal public service, federally regulated industries or healthcare

- Can’t travel on planes, boats or interprovincial trains

- Can’t go to some post secondary schools, public events, sports games or go into restaurants/bars

- Can’t go to parties (just implemented)

 

Can you get a job? Yes

Can you drive anywhere within Canada? Yes

Can you get an education? Yes

Can you get alcohol, takeout or delivery? Yes

Can you leave your home? Yes

 

I shudder imagining what they’d think living during war when people made real sacrifices without complaint. Anything metal was donated. There were weekly rations: 1 cup Sugar, 4 oz Butter, 2 oz Tea, 8 oz Coffee, 24 oz Meat. Alcohol, clothing, rubber, fuel and paper were severely restricted for 5 years. Even if you had a ration card there was no guarantee you could find the item. These minor restrictions in comparison are why some believe their freedom has been taken, but in reality they don’t have a clue. The only thing they’ve lost is some access to the extras in life.

During the Blitz, people lost everything, their jobs, homes, lives. People crowded bomb shelters and underground train stations during the bombing. Firefighters, Doctors, Nurses were working around the clock. In the daytime people had to pick up the pieces, and sort through the rubble to try and rebuild. Depending which country you lived in, and who invaded you. Things were worse. You could be executed because you had a different religion, different background. Or because some cruel bastard just had a bad day. 

Not to mention other unspeakables like rape, torture, gassings. People in Vietnam built tunnels and shelters everywhere. And both sides committed atrocities. 

As Breaker Morant said "The tragedy of war is these are normal men, put in abnormal conditions." 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Ghostsof1915

[Alflives]

Doctor Bonnie confirming in her presser (Dec 24) that Omicron is presenting with mild to no symptoms in the vast majority of vaccinated people.  Thank you science!  

 

[BCNeil]

17 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Doctor Bonnie confirming in her presser (Dec 24) that Omicron is presenting with mild to no symptoms in the vast majority of vaccinated people.  Thank you science!  

 

The cases are high, but new hospitalizations and ICU are staying flat.  I wish they had more information on each new hospitalization, if they are vaccinated or not, and which variant they have.  As I type this Ontario has 9600 new cases today.  But people in critical care is down 5.  Things could be a lot lot worse.  

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, BCNeil said:

The cases are high, but new hospitalizations and ICU are staying flat.  I wish they had more information on each new hospitalization, if they are vaccinated or not, and which variant they have.  As I type this Ontario has 9600 new cases today.  But people in critical care is down 5.  Things could be a lot lot worse.  

Yup.  There is definitely a decoupling between number of cases and serious (hospitalizations) disease.  We need to protect our healthcare workers, and stay home if presenting with cold and flu symptoms.  

[BCNeil]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yup.  There is definitely a decoupling between number of cases and serious (hospitalizations) disease.  We need to protect our healthcare workers, and stay home if presenting with cold and flu symptoms.  

Here is the graph for the last 3 weeks, with the 7 day average feature off.  

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[stawns]

32 minutes ago, BCNeil said:

The cases are high, but new hospitalizations and ICU are staying flat.  I wish they had more information on each new hospitalization, if they are vaccinated or not, and which variant they have.  As I type this Ontario has 9600 new cases today.  But people in critical care is down 5.  Things could be a lot lot worse.  

It'll be interesting to watch because delta is still surging and that's where the biggest danger still is

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

It'll be interesting to watch because delta is still surging and that's where the biggest danger still is

Delta will put people in hospital, especially the unvaccinated.  

[EP Phone Home]

2 hours ago, gizmo2337 said:

I'm double jabbbed, so go easy on the hate. 

The part I don't understand is why there is so much hate against ant-vaxer's. I don't share the same view as the rest of you I guess. They aren't driving the wave we are seeing now. The variant is able to infect the vaccinated. They next variant will probably achieve 100% breakthrough and that vaccine will be worthless. Some of those people have legit reasons for not getting jabbed. If you want to make a difference, just stay home.

Mask's aren't relatively expensive. The filter fibers for N95 masks come right from BC, so there's no excuse.

One of our customers in Nanaimo make the filters for the masks. They have been quite the essential business in all of this. 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Doctor Bonnie confirming in her presser (Dec 24) that Omicron is presenting with mild to no symptoms in the vast majority of vaccinated people.  Thank you science!  

 

here's a bit more on the presser: https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/different-game-henry-omicron-breakthrough-reinfection

 

interesting that re-infection appears to be more common in people that have been infected before. 

[JM_]

38 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

they should just play the game on the 27th with no fans. No point in taking the risk now.