Coronavirus outbreak

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3 hours ago, Kragar said:

Too many CDC names to tag here, but this is for all of you freaking out over Trump's (and others') comments about using UV light and disinfectant internally.

 

Does any of you understand the concept of innovation?  Spit-balling ideas, including some really hair-brained ones, in the hope that something useful comes from it.

 

I'd be curious how all of you would have felt if he were to ever propose the potential benefits of injecting mustard gas or other poisons to attack the virus.  Hardly sounds safe or sound, does it?

 

I only raise it up because deliberate injection of mustard gases were the first attempts at chemotherapy.

The problem is, you don't "spitball" to the masses...some of whom hang on every word you say as gospel.  It's dangerous.  Figure it out behind the scenes with the experts then present ideas once they're beyond a glancing thought.

 

Trump thinks out loud too much and some of his thoughts are a little scary.

 

Sure...ideas are the mother of invention but not every single one.  And there's a process to it before announcing to the world what you're thinking.  

 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

I don’t recall FDR spitballing injecting mustard gas into people but I’m no expert on American history.

 

Perhaps if your esteemed leader actually attended more Corona virus meetings instead of following Dr Oz or Mr Pillow....

 

Elise Garofalo (@elisegaro) Tweeted:
Trump attends roughly ONE coronavirus task force meeting a week (these are the meetings that precede the public briefing). At times, 10 days or more have passed without him attending. https://t.co/DwAtLoTZ2d

 

he might actually have some relevant ideas worth spitballing.

 

Look how the Conservative Premier of Ontario has handled things.  He lets the experts do their job.  He works WITH the Federal government even though he has legitimate axes to grind with them.

Edited April 25, 2020 by NewbieCanuckFan

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9 hours ago, guntrix said:

BC not only has a small amount of cases, but it also has a well-run hospital system and has the added advantage of being pretty geographically isolated and very low in population density. Honestly, it's one of the better places to be during this pandemic. BCers don't have to worry about facing hours-long line ups to get into hospitals, nor do they have to worry about being treated in makeshift war hospitals because the regular hospitals have run out of beds. BCers don't have to worry about their own head of state sabotaging local efforts to get the virus under control, nor have they had to endure radical far-right groups protesting their "right" to go back to work at the expense of the vulnerable. 

 

Those who stoke the fear mongering don't write realize how easy BC's got it in comparison to other places, and part of that's down to the fact that BCers have never really had to live through anything more than a forest fire.

You're not connecting the dots though.

 

The REASON some countries are experiencing these issues is because there's a huge SURGE of infected people all at once...which is why the measures in place are not only important, but they're working here.

 

Our hospitals were also splitting at the seams at times in the past...but the measures put into place to address this virus were good ones and very proactive.  It wasn't because the system's superior...surgeries and all other non covid/essential things were postponed.  How that plays out later with even longer wait times will tell the true story of the system.  It's not uncommon to have to wait for months (years) for some procedures.

 

Those who aren't a bit fearful of a surge don't associate what's happening "out there" with here...but they should.  This isn't a magical haven of safety...only if we make it so.   Vancouver, Toronto...these are potential hubs for this virus as they are not "isolated" in any way except if we make it so.

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10 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said:

Most people here won't let evidence get in the way of their own fear. Whatever lol.

Funny but you want to pin "fear" on this place like we're a special bunch.

 

We listen to scientists, health experts and leaders to decide.  I'm wondering what your "confidence" is based on?

 

Evidence is exactly what we're using...we don't cherry pick JUST the stuff that suits us though.  Sure, young people (blah blah blah).  But is this thing "done"?  Figured out?  No.  So time will tell the REAL deal and perhaps some people's symptoms/deaths, etc. will be attributed to this virus after it's learned of how it does impact the body.  This focus was "lungs" but it's also now including other organs, blood flow/clotting, possibly the brain, etc.

 

Do you deny this virus and the virality of this deal?  The seriousness?  If so, I'd like to know why it isn't "over" then?  If we've got it wrong and it's just fear mongering?

 

This is a "novel" virus and I'm not sure you have it nailed down if the true experts don't yet.  They're just NOW associating horrible, inoperable blood clots to this virus.  Amputations.  So let's wait for it to reveal itself in its entirety before we claim things are "safe".

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9 hours ago, guntrix said:

Naive is to look at the statistics and turn the other way. People are contributing to misinformation by propagating that anyone can die when one's chances greatly vary depending on age and health. 

 

 

 

"One's chances"...but not "everyone's".   So it's a selfish way to look at it, plain and simple.

 

You've weighed it out and are good to go...great.  But those around you may not fare so well.  Do you have grandparents?  Older parents?   

 

Maybe call the PM, the scientists and the health officials who've worked with viruses in the past and let them know they've got it wrong and to stop informing people on the novel coronavirus that isn't yet "figured out" in full the propaganda.  Not sure why countries would drive themselves into the ground over nothing, but sure.

 

You're ignoring all stats except one - the one based on age.  You can't count the "population" versus number of deaths (yet) because it's not complete.  This thing ain't over so when it is you can.  The number of deaths is still climbing in many places and, in those it's not, time will tell if it fires up again.  Too early to tell.

 

What channel is your source for "all is calm, all is bright" on this morning...can't seem to find anything?  If you're not fearful, fine...but it's not really a bragging point for most.  Not "panicked" or terrified....but until we have a way to protect everyone, it's something to fear.  Those lives being lost may not be YOURS, but they're someone's.

[Gurn]

9 hours ago, guntrix said:

nor have they had to endure radical far-right groups protesting their "right" to go back to work at the expense of the vulnerable. 

https://globalnews.ca/news/6812669/viral-video-gathering-coronavirus/

 

"

A dozen or so protesters in Vancouver calling for an end to physical-distancing restrictions are “attempting to promote themselves” and represent “marginal views,” B.C.’s health minister says.

Adrian Dix was responding to a viral video showing a group of about 12 to 15 people gathering closely together on a Vancouver street over the weekend in an attempt to protest public health orders to stem the spread of COVID-19.

The video was posted on Sunday and had been viewed more than 2.9 million times by Tuesday morning.

A vast majority of British Columbians are following the rules, Dix said, calling the video an example of a few people seeking attention."

https://www.castanet.net/news/Vernon/297059/Protesters-at-Vernon-City-Hall-call-for-no-COVID-19-lockdowns

A group of frustrated individuals gathered at Vernon City Hall Sunday to protest the measures taken to slow the spread of COVID-19, and to voice their concerns over the effects those efforts are having on our economy.

"Make sure we stand six feet apart — not that we need to, because this virus is a hoax," said one of the protesters named Chris, who refused to disclose his last name. "But if I want to hug someone, I'm going to give them a hug."

The protesters did respect the physical distancing measures, as police did a walk-by early on in the gathering. The group discussed whether or not COVID-19 numbers were being inflated, the validity of COVID-related reporting and how the health measures were impacting their everyday lives.

"Waiting in lines outside of stores is not normal — we don't want it anymore, and it needs to stop," said Sylvia Herchen, a physiotherapist who had to shut down her operation due to the pandemic. "Rational thinkers would think quarantine is when you restrict the movement of sick people — tyranny is when you restrict the movement of healthy people."

The protesters questioned the credibility of Dr. Anthony Fauci, the United States' top infectious disease expert, but did not mention Dr. Bonnie Henry, B.C.'s provincial health officer.

"Dr. Shiva Ayyadurai says that the HIV hype was manufactured by Dr. Fauci, who is now instrumental in telling President Trump what to do," said Herchen, referencing a Republican senate candidate who erroneously claims HIV does not cause AIDS. "It's just creating fear."

Toward the end of the gathering, the protesters discussed solutions to the problem at hand.

"There's really two solutions here," said Chris. "Create the narrative by spreading the truth, and manifesting peace, love and freedom."

The group plans to meet at least every week.

Health officials in B.C. are currently urging the public to not let their guard down and continue social distancing. Hospitalizations and new COVID-19 case counts have remained stable for the past 10 days, something doctors say is thanks to current social distancing efforts. 

“We are not over the hump yet, and we are going to have a bumpy road for a while,” Dr. Henry said Thursday. “We are holding our own, and we are keeping it down, but we all need to continue to do this. Going into this long weekend, it's more important than ever that we keep going, that everything we are doing now, we keep up.”

British Columbia's total number of confirmed coronavirus cases now stands at 1,445, including 58 deaths.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

I'm actually curious about the so-called "pro-life" movement in the US.  I raised this issue much earlier but I find it interesting how much they were so "up in arms" over the Terry Schiavo case (one unfortunate sad story of a person who was in an irreversable persistant vegatative state) but are strangely silent over the "open up my state!" movement which at the very least raises the risk to the elderly population (much of who are STILL very much active) to a large degree.

[coho8888]

1 hour ago, Russ said:

Not going to lie I have always wanted to visit this since I saw it on one of those cooking shows, more less for the sights and to say I have.

I wonder if the burgers are any good tastewise?  How are they compared to Bobby Flays, Ramsey's or Wahlburgers?  Its been a few years since I've visited Vegas but I always make it a point to eat at In and Out at least once or twice.

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Maybe I should move to the interior?:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/24/coronavirus-detected-particles-air-pollution

[Gawdzukes]

Honest question here.

 

Shouldn't we be able to come up with better more efficient tests that could cover all of North America at little cost that can be used everyday ... every hour?

 

We can come up with tonnes of garbage/partially useful costly products everyday like 8G phones, smaller tea bag tags. disposable seating napkins for temporary poop houses, apps to turn our house lights on or off from work, patch blood sugar to phone readers, and measure our diet/activities with our phones.

 

I would think this could be done on the cheap but big pockets are afraid they might not profit and might actually have to work one day.

Edited April 25, 2020 by Gawdzukes

[coho8888]

24 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Honest question here.

 

Shouldn't we be able to come up with better more efficient tests that could cover all of North America at little cost that can be used everyday ... every hour?

 

We can come up with tonnes of garbage/partially useful costly products everyday like 8G phones, smaller tea bag tags. disposable seating napkins for temporary poop houses, apps to turn our house lights on or off from work, patch blood sugar to phone readers, and measure our diet/activities with our phones.

 

I would think this could be done on the cheap but big pockets are afraid they might not profit and might actually have to work one day.

Just like there is a race to find a vaccine, there are efforts to find tests that are more effective, efficient and timely.  I think Dr. Henry mentioned that the current tests are good at detecting the virus for those that have symptoms but not so good at detecting the virus for asymptomatic cases as they frequently produce false positives or negatives.  I think their strategy in testing Asymptomatic cases is through Zerology (sp) testing which looks for antibodies if the person had already had the virus.  If they could test a good portion of the population, that would go a long way in easing some of the restrictions we currently have in place.

[Gurn]

6 hours ago, Kragar said:

Too many CDC names to tag here, but this is for all of you freaking out over Trump's (and others') comments about using UV light and disinfectant internally.

 

Does any of you understand the concept of innovation?  Spit-balling ideas, including some really hair-brained ones, in the hope that something useful comes from it.

 

I'd be curious how all of you would have felt if he were to ever propose the potential benefits of injecting mustard gas or other poisons to attack the virus.  Hardly sounds safe or sound, does it?

 

I only raise it up because deliberate injection of mustard gases were the first attempts at chemotherapy.

Ohh, you've done it now.

About a week back I posted a buddy's idea- that did not go over well.

[Kragar]

4 hours ago, Canorth said:

Right.... that’s why he walked his comments back as “sarcasm” or that he didn’t say it at all... that’s why industry leaders were forced to make statements affirming that there products should not be consumed.
 

Because Trump is well known as a pioneer on the cutting edge of medical technology??

 

I wonder how many of those mustard gas scientists were also moonlighting as a science rejecting, charity frauding, fake university operating Conman??

 

I'm not saying that is why he said it.  But the supreme idiocy shown by so much media that anything orange man does is bad is not appropriate.  Nor helpful.  And then rabid consumers eat it up... yay, something else to attack Trump with.  Why... because it is such a bad idea, or because of who said it.

 

Because, in January, Trump wanted to restrict travel into the country.  What happened?  Media, experts and Dems freak out, to the point where Dems were drafting legislation trying to remove Trump's ability to restrict travel (where had we heard that before?).  How long did it take for those same people to criticize him for not restricting travel?  

 

By March, Trump gets attacked because he wasn't taking this thing seriously enough early on.  Oddly enough, neither were countless other democrat politicians (of various levels) or the media that supports them.  But no, it's only Trump's fault.

 

How many are attacking him over the mere mention of hydroxychloroquine, a drug that already has the FDA stamp of approval and was being used my doctors (you know... experts) in other countries to treat covid 19.  To mention the drug, to give people hope that a medical treatment... is that such a bad thing?

 

Or how about how he was attacked over the supply of ventilators.  I won't get into the debate over the state of the emergency supply resulting from the previous administration, but the death rate of covid 19 patients using ventilators  can get pretty high (80% in NY is probably the worst).  Does that mean that all the Dems and others criticizing Trump about not having enough ventilators should be attacked because they support something that might be worse then hydroxychloroquine? 

 

No, it doesn't.  People are scrambling to do the best they can in a horrible situation.  That includes doctors.  Experts appear to change their mind every two weeks.  A month ago, my wife was verbally attacked by a UPS store manager, because she was wearing a mask.  A week or two later, there was a sign on the door, of that very same store saying customers could not enter without wearing a mask.  I hope that a-hole feels better about being a dick to my wife.

 

All of this anti-Trumpism going on now is pure politics.  That is my point.

 

[Kragar]

2 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

The problem is, you don't "spitball" to the masses...some of whom hang on every word you say as gospel.  It's dangerous.  Figure it out behind the scenes with the experts then present ideas once they're beyond a glancing thought.

 

Trump thinks out loud too much and some of his thoughts are a little scary.

 

Sure...ideas are the mother of invention but not every single one.  And there's a process to it before announcing to the world what you're thinking.  

 

 

That's true.  But that is not why Trump is being attacked.  He is being attacked over the content of the idea, not the delivery of it.  And when you look at everything else he says (see my reply to Canorth above), it is crystal clear that the attacks are politically motivated, and not out of concern for our safety.

 

I agree with most of what you say here.

[Kragar]

8 minutes ago, gurn said:

Ohh, you've done it now.

About a week back I posted a buddy's idea- that did not go over well.

Sorry, I'm not clear on what you mean.  For the sake of my sanity, I've been a occasional lurker in OT General for a couple weeks, up until yesterday, so I don't have the context here.

[-DLC-]

10 minutes ago, Kragar said:

Because, in January, Trump wanted to restrict travel into the country.  What happened?   So why didn't he then?  Remember, he's the self declared guy who can do whatever he wants as President/an authority.  He's not one to back down and even fires people who aren't on board with his agenda.  He wants to restrict immigrants from entering his country...but that started long before this virus surfaced.  He was using it for a previous agenda, that's all.  He was in denial about the severity of things but it could have been an opening to shut the door and put up those walls he's been pushing for.

 

By March, Trump gets attacked because he wasn't taking this thing seriously enough early on.  Oddly enough, neither were countless other democrat politicians (of various levels) or the media that supports them.  But no, it's only Trump's fault.  Other countries have, for the most part, managed to stay on top of things and the US didn't. 

 

How many are attacking him over the mere mention of hydroxychloroquine, a drug that already has the FDA stamp of approval and was being used my doctors (you know... experts) in other countries to treat covid 19.  To mention the drug, to give people hope that a medical treatment... is that such a bad thing?  False hope is a bad thing because people let their guard down figuring "it's ok...there's something available to help us".

 

Or how about how he was attacked over the supply of ventilators.  I won't get into the debate over the state of the emergency supply resulting from the previous administration, but the death rate of covid 19 patients using ventilators  can get pretty high (80% in NY is probably the worst).  Does that mean that all the Dems and others criticizing Trump about not having enough ventilators should be attacked because they support something that might be worse then hydroxychloroquine? Where is the supporting evidence of "ventilators being worse than other suggested methods"?

 

All of this anti-Trumpism going on now is pure politics.  That is my point.  Actually, no...I don't give a rat's behind about American politics unless it is in a worldwide crisis where it becomes glaring.  Pro Trumpism is support for a man who's not really got a handle on his country...don't think ours should be following his lead.

 

You're making this about politics and support for/anti Trump stuff.  
 

This is him putting stuff out there and us responding.  Not us blindly attacking a man because we think he's an egotistical power mongering maniac.  That's beside the point.

 

My point is that we can't ignore some of what he's saying/doing because it puts the world at risk.  Eventually the borders WILL open up but I'm glad to hear our PM this morning suggesting that won't be any time soon.  And that he's not feeling too pressured by a man who's offering thoughts on how to combat this.  Leave the experts to that.

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

OMG, you guys leave Brittany alone!!! 

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24 minutes ago, Kragar said:

That's true.  But that is not why Trump is being attacked.  He is being attacked over the content of the idea, not the delivery of it.  And when you look at everything else he says (see my reply to Canorth above), it is crystal clear that the attacks are politically motivated, and not out of concern for our safety.

 

I agree with most of what you say here.

I feel he's been attacked because he's dangerous at times.   I mean why ARE people "anti Trump"?....there are reasons behind that.  His actions are what people react to and it's ok to do so.  Blind following isn't responsible.  I was very much "anti Trudeau" until this hit but his actions have me changing that.  That's how it works....you don't sign on "for life".  You weigh out leaders as they respond to things, both verbally and through actions, then decide.  Which is how I do it.   Trump has yet to prove me wrong on him.   

 

Many of his followers tend to buy into anything he's saying so he has to be more careful with that.  His delivery is awful...he can barely put together sentences without going to his fillers..."great; greatest; best ever; biggest".  Put on a red hat and people cheer like crazy so he can slide through those moments.  But the words and, much more important, the actions are important. The hat was cute and catchy, but it's a distraction and empty words if you're not actually following through and making things great.  Right now they're not so great in the US.  But he rallies the troops of his like it's a Jerry Springer episode and he's a cheerleader more than a leader in my view.  It's a popularity contest and he has a following that, I feel, isn't all about his actions but often about his celebrity status.  At this point, Kim Kardashian could probably run and challenge.

 

Anyhow, won't change how I feel but it's VERY upsetting to me to hear people hide behind the wall of "fear mongerers".  So much that I just took a time out before returning.

 

I am fearful.  I have a Dad who's very vulnerable in this.  A son who spent time in an oxygen tent as a baby and has had two recent bouts of pneumonia.  I don't care if you don't understand my fear...it's warranted until I've been shown it's not.  

 

Don't criticize those who ARE fearful and therefore don't take their responsibility not only to family, but society, as a great one.  I got canned at work because of it...so yes, I feel strongly.  But my fear is no more displaced than those crashing around with confidence.  I'd rather be on this side of the fence until this thing is fully figured out and "beat".   Rather than prove something.

 

Going back to my happy craft corner but felt strongly that the message about "why" some of us are fearful is being trampled on.

[Gurn]

6 hours ago, Kragar said:

Too many CDC names to tag here, but this is for all of you freaking out over Trump's (and others') comments about using UV light and disinfectant internally.

 

Does any of you understand the concept of innovation?  Spit-balling ideas, including some really hair-brained ones, in the hope that something useful comes from it.

 

I'd be curious how all of you would have felt if he were to ever propose the potential benefits of injecting mustard gas or other poisons to attack the virus.  Hardly sounds safe or sound, does it?

 

I only raise it up because deliberate injection of mustard gases were the first attempts at chemotherapy.

 

14 minutes ago, Kragar said:

Sorry, I'm not clear on what you mean.  For the sake of my sanity, I've been a occasional lurker in OT General for a couple weeks, up until yesterday, so I don't have the context here.

I  posted an idea a friend had to help combat covid, it was not well received.

In my defense neither my buddy or myself are the president of anything.

Thought was:

If alcohol kills the virus, why not vapourize  and inhale booze to help kill the virus?

I know people that vape vodka etc for recreation, and wondered if that would help or hurt.

Most thought it would hurt.

[Gawdzukes]

33 minutes ago, coho8888 said:

Just like there is a race to find a vaccine, there are efforts to find tests that are more effective, efficient and timely.  I think Dr. Henry mentioned that the current tests are good at detecting the virus for those that have symptoms but not so good at detecting the virus for asymptomatic cases as they frequently produce false positives or negatives.  I think their strategy in testing Asymptomatic cases is through Zerology (sp) testing which looks for antibodies if the person had already had the virus.  If they could test a good portion of the population, that would go a long way in easing some of the restrictions we currently have in place.

Well I've always thought I should have went into medicine more than sports ... looks like I made the wrong decision again  lol. I just find it odd they can build a {whatever caliber weapon] and shoot someone dead from halfway around the world with a gun 5000 meters away and mass produce those in hours but the world's best scientists and manufacturers can't come up with a proper portable testing machine that could save the world. 

 

This is really our limits as a species technologically speaking? I am not impressed.